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reaganjn
Guest
i know someone has become “pagan”. but i have no idea what this is. can someone please explain it to me?
thanks
thanks
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uxordepp
Guest
I have a sneaking suspicion that this is one of those labels that can change a bit depending on who’s wearing it.
Ask your friend.
Ask your friend.
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reaganjn
Guest
i cant ask her because she is not my friend she is just a person who had her daughter in my girl scout troop for 2 years. i dont think it would be appropriate to ask her because our relationship is nothing more then “hi” when we see eachother in public. i dont have any ill will toward her. just a very neutral feeling instead. if that makes any sense.
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Bear_Claw
Guest
It can be one of two things…Pagan can be used like “Gentile” where you are speaking in a very broadterms about non-christian persons…however recently it’s replaced the term “Neopaganism” which is more of an acient Celtic-type of religion.i know someone has become “pagan”. but i have no idea what this is. can someone please explain it to me?
thanks
My guess would be that it’s the latter
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Joe_5859
Guest
A pagan is anyone who disagrees with your religious point of view. 
Okay, I’ll be serious.
The pagans of old were those followers of the Greek and Roman religions who were in need of evangelization. Nowadays, some people use the term to describe anything that is non-Christian and/or anti-Christian.
There is also neo-paganism, which is basically an attempt by various groups to eliminate any Christian influence from their belief system and go back to the beliefs of those pre-Christian religions. Not that the people are going around worshiping Zeus or anything. There are lots of varieties, but mostly, it is a sort of nature religion. Lots of emphasis on taking care of “Mother Earth”. Much of it can be pantheistic (i.e., everything is part of one great big cosmic “divine”).
Okay, I’ll be serious.
The pagans of old were those followers of the Greek and Roman religions who were in need of evangelization. Nowadays, some people use the term to describe anything that is non-Christian and/or anti-Christian.There is also neo-paganism, which is basically an attempt by various groups to eliminate any Christian influence from their belief system and go back to the beliefs of those pre-Christian religions. Not that the people are going around worshiping Zeus or anything. There are lots of varieties, but mostly, it is a sort of nature religion. Lots of emphasis on taking care of “Mother Earth”. Much of it can be pantheistic (i.e., everything is part of one great big cosmic “divine”).
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reaganjn
Guest
oh okay thank you…
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kenofken
Guest
That’s a big open question you pose. So wide-ranging that I, as a pagan, find it daunting. It’s a bit like asking “What is a Christian?” That can take in anything from Catholics of a thousand different shades to snake handling Pentacostals, Mormons, mystics, anyone whose faith is based on some vision of Christ. Paganism takes in at least as much diversity in belief. In the most general sense, pagans like your friend often follow reconstructions of pre-Christian European religions or more modern systems which take inspiration, if not actual practice, from them. Many are “nature based” religions, which doesn’t mean that we worship trees or creation per se, but we see divine conscience as inseparable from creation, more immanent than trascendent. We see deity as both male and female, but with the female being primal, first among equals in a sense. We consider all things in creation to have a form of consciousness and a bit of the spark of divinity.
We don’t worship Satan or give him any thought whatsoever because aren’t dualists who see the world as a struggle between ultimate darkeness and light, so we don’t seek salvation either. Some of us are, unfortunately, virulently anti-Christian. Most are not, provided we’re treated with basic respect. Some of us in fact consider themselves to be both Christian and Pagan and see no contridiction at all in that. (Most of Catholicism’s most devout followers in Latin America are also more pagan than any of us could ever hope to be). So that’s the nickel answer to your question. I can’t guess what brand of pagan your friend might be. Sometimes “pagan” in young people simply means they’re having a bit of rebellion or like New Age imagery and trappings.
We don’t worship Satan or give him any thought whatsoever because aren’t dualists who see the world as a struggle between ultimate darkeness and light, so we don’t seek salvation either. Some of us are, unfortunately, virulently anti-Christian. Most are not, provided we’re treated with basic respect. Some of us in fact consider themselves to be both Christian and Pagan and see no contridiction at all in that. (Most of Catholicism’s most devout followers in Latin America are also more pagan than any of us could ever hope to be). So that’s the nickel answer to your question. I can’t guess what brand of pagan your friend might be. Sometimes “pagan” in young people simply means they’re having a bit of rebellion or like New Age imagery and trappings.
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A_Lion_Of_Islam
Guest
A pagan is anyone who worships anything else but the Creator… So you can call it worshippers of the creation… Mushrik in arabic…
so if someone involves worshipping anything else but the one TRUE creator, then the at person is said to be involved in Paganism…
The creation can be nature, human being, rocks, sun/ moon etc…
Allah knows best!
so if someone involves worshipping anything else but the one TRUE creator, then the at person is said to be involved in Paganism…
The creation can be nature, human being, rocks, sun/ moon etc…
Allah knows best!
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Jehoshua
Guest
To sum up the definitions on precise faith grouping in the Catholic perspective
A Pagan is a follower of Polytheism or Animism. (Some Hindu Sects, Tribal Religions)
An Infidel is someone who believes not in God (Atheist)
A Heretic is someone who willfully follows a corrupted version of the true faith (Nestorian)
A Schismatic follows correct doctrine but is not fully part of the church (Orthodox)
A Believer is someone who follows the One True Catholic and Apostolic Church
The previous poster summed it up fairly well when he said (one that worships the creation)
One who believe not in the Creator would be an infidel however, the worshippers of the creation acknowledge the creators existence through worshipping the creation, even if they don;t recognise his presence. Thats my understanding at any rate
A Pagan is a follower of Polytheism or Animism. (Some Hindu Sects, Tribal Religions)
An Infidel is someone who believes not in God (Atheist)
A Heretic is someone who willfully follows a corrupted version of the true faith (Nestorian)
A Schismatic follows correct doctrine but is not fully part of the church (Orthodox)
A Believer is someone who follows the One True Catholic and Apostolic Church
The previous poster summed it up fairly well when he said (one that worships the creation)
One who believe not in the Creator would be an infidel however, the worshippers of the creation acknowledge the creators existence through worshipping the creation, even if they don;t recognise his presence. Thats my understanding at any rate
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Lion_of_Narnia
Guest
By your definition above, Catholics would be considered pagan by a good many muslims–and I’ve had some tell me that to my face.
Which means “verse of the sword” , and the choice of expulsion, death, or conversion.
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Publisher
Guest
I agree with most of the posters above. Calling oneself a “pagan” doesn’t give enough info to accurately give a definition.
It could be one who follows a “Neo-pagan” tradition like Wicca, Asatru, Druid…or one of the modern Reconstructionist groups that seek to worship the “Old Gods” from one of the pantheons of old…Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Celtic, Norse and/or indigenous Shamanic traditions…or a group that gives a more mystical understanding of the Divine…perhaps Gaia the primal Earth Spirit which binds our world together.
A “pagan” could also be one who identifies themselves as “pagan” as opposed to “Christian”, “Jew” or “Muslim”. My brother says he is “pagan”…even though he is not a member of any “Neo-pagan” group nor does he hold any particular religious beliefs…he claims to be a “borderline atheist” or “agnostic” as he doesn’t believe there is any proof of the existence of deity…but is willing to concede that there may be some “unifying Force” or “benign intellegence” which binds existence together…more so now that he’s been introduced to quantum physics.
I would venture to guess your friend’s daughter is a recent “initiate” of a “Neo-pagan” tradition of Celtic, Greek, Egyptian, Roman or Shamanistic flavor.
It could be one who follows a “Neo-pagan” tradition like Wicca, Asatru, Druid…or one of the modern Reconstructionist groups that seek to worship the “Old Gods” from one of the pantheons of old…Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Celtic, Norse and/or indigenous Shamanic traditions…or a group that gives a more mystical understanding of the Divine…perhaps Gaia the primal Earth Spirit which binds our world together.
A “pagan” could also be one who identifies themselves as “pagan” as opposed to “Christian”, “Jew” or “Muslim”. My brother says he is “pagan”…even though he is not a member of any “Neo-pagan” group nor does he hold any particular religious beliefs…he claims to be a “borderline atheist” or “agnostic” as he doesn’t believe there is any proof of the existence of deity…but is willing to concede that there may be some “unifying Force” or “benign intellegence” which binds existence together…more so now that he’s been introduced to quantum physics.
I would venture to guess your friend’s daughter is a recent “initiate” of a “Neo-pagan” tradition of Celtic, Greek, Egyptian, Roman or Shamanistic flavor.
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A_Lion_Of_Islam
Guest
If anyone believes in creation, then they are considered to be Pagans… I am sure you dont believe in creation, so why are you worried about what some muslims say to you? If you truly believe in one God, then you are muslim (that is you have submitted to the will of one God)…
I dont know what you mean by the verse of the sword? Care to explain please?
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A_Lion_Of_Islam
Guest
The context my friend… the context…this verse was revealed at the time of war… during war, such things happen… these come as a command from Allah to do this to the Mushrik (Pagans) who attacked the muslims…
More explanation of the verse and its context here
asqfish.wordpress.com/2008/12/21/slay-the-idolaters-wherever-ye-find-them%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A694-6/
Thafsir as given below
This is the Ayah of the Sword
Mujahid,
فَسِيحُواْ فِى الاٌّرْضِ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ]
(So travel freely for four months throughout the land.) Allah said next,
فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ]
(So when the Sacred Months have passed…), meaning, `Upon the end of the four months during which We prohibited you from fighting the idolators, and which is the grace period We gave them, then fight and kill the idolators wherever you may find them.’ Allah’s statement next,
فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ]
(then fight the Mushrikin wherever you find them), means, on the earth in general, except for the Sacred Area, for Allah said,
وَلاَ تُقَـتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَـتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَـتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ]
(And fight not with them at Al-Masjid Al-Haram, unless they fight you there. But if they attack you, then fight them. )[2:191] Allah said here,
وَخُذُوهُمْ]
(and capture them), executing some and keeping some as prisoners,
وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ]
(and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush), do not wait until you find them. Rather, seek and besiege them in their areas and forts, gather intelligence about them in the various roads and fairways so that what is made wide looks ever smaller to them. This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam,
فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلَوةَ وَءاتَوُاْ الزَّكَوةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ]
(But if they repent and perform the Salah, and give the Zakah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) Abu Bakr As-Siddiq used this and other honorable Ayat as proof for fighting those who refrained from paying the Zakah. These Ayat allowed fighting people unless, and until, they embrace Islam and implement its rulings and obligations. Allah mentioned the most important aspects of Islam here, including what is less important. Surely, the highest elements of Islam after the Two Testimonials, are the prayer, which is the right of Allah, the Exalted and Ever High, then the Zakah, which benefits the poor and needy. These are the most honorable acts that creatures perform, and this is why Allah often mentions the prayer and Zakah together. In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that Ibn `Umar said that the Messenger of Allah said,
«أُمِرْتُ أَنْ أُقَاتِلَ النَّاسَ حَتَّى يَشْهَدُوا أَنْ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللهُ وَأَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا رَسُولُ اللهِ وَيُقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُوا الزَّكَاة»
(I have been commanded to fight the people until they testify that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, establish the prayer and pay the Zakah.) This honorable Ayah (9:5) was called the Ayah of the Sword, about which Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim said, "It abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolator, every treaty, and every term.’’ Al-
وَإِنْ أَحَدٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ اسْتَجَارَكَ فَأَجِرْهُ حَتَّى يَسْمَعَ كَلاَمَ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ أَبْلِغْهُ مَأْمَنَهُ ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يَعْلَمُونَ ]
(6. And if anyone of the Mushrikin seeks your protection then grant him protection so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Qur’an) and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.)
Source: tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20750
More explanation of the verse and its context here
asqfish.wordpress.com/2008/12/21/slay-the-idolaters-wherever-ye-find-them%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A6%E2%80%A694-6/
Thafsir as given below
This is the Ayah of the Sword
Mujahid,
Amr bin Shuayb, Muhammad bin Ishaq, Qatadah, As-Suddi and `Abdur-Rahman bin Zayd bin Aslam said that the four months mentioned in this Ayah are the four-month grace period mentioned in the earlier Ayah,فَسِيحُواْ فِى الاٌّرْضِ أَرْبَعَةَ أَشْهُرٍ]
(So travel freely for four months throughout the land.) Allah said next,
فَإِذَا انسَلَخَ الأَشْهُرُ الْحُرُمُ]
(So when the Sacred Months have passed…), meaning, `Upon the end of the four months during which We prohibited you from fighting the idolators, and which is the grace period We gave them, then fight and kill the idolators wherever you may find them.’ Allah’s statement next,
فَاقْتُلُواْ الْمُشْرِكِينَ حَيْثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمْ]
(then fight the Mushrikin wherever you find them), means, on the earth in general, except for the Sacred Area, for Allah said,
وَلاَ تُقَـتِلُوهُمْ عِندَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ حَتَّى يُقَـتِلُوكُمْ فِيهِ فَإِن قَـتَلُوكُمْ فَاقْتُلُوهُمْ]
(And fight not with them at Al-Masjid Al-Haram, unless they fight you there. But if they attack you, then fight them. )[2:191] Allah said here,
وَخُذُوهُمْ]
(and capture them), executing some and keeping some as prisoners,
وَاحْصُرُوهُمْ وَاقْعُدُواْ لَهُمْ كُلَّ مَرْصَدٍ]
(and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush), do not wait until you find them. Rather, seek and besiege them in their areas and forts, gather intelligence about them in the various roads and fairways so that what is made wide looks ever smaller to them. This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam,
فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ الصَّلَوةَ وَءاتَوُاْ الزَّكَوةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ]
(But if they repent and perform the Salah, and give the Zakah, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.) Abu Bakr As-Siddiq used this and other honorable Ayat as proof for fighting those who refrained from paying the Zakah. These Ayat allowed fighting people unless, and until, they embrace Islam and implement its rulings and obligations. Allah mentioned the most important aspects of Islam here, including what is less important. Surely, the highest elements of Islam after the Two Testimonials, are the prayer, which is the right of Allah, the Exalted and Ever High, then the Zakah, which benefits the poor and needy. These are the most honorable acts that creatures perform, and this is why Allah often mentions the prayer and Zakah together. In the Two Sahihs, it is recorded that Ibn `Umar said that the Messenger of Allah said,
«أُمِرْتُ أَنْ أُقَاتِلَ النَّاسَ حَتَّى يَشْهَدُوا أَنْ لَا إِلَهَ إِلَّا اللهُ وَأَنَّ مُحَمَّدًا رَسُولُ اللهِ وَيُقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَيُؤْتُوا الزَّكَاة»
(I have been commanded to fight the people until they testify that there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, establish the prayer and pay the Zakah.) This honorable Ayah (9:5) was called the Ayah of the Sword, about which Ad-Dahhak bin Muzahim said, "It abrogated every agreement of peace between the Prophet and any idolator, every treaty, and every term.’’ Al-
Awfi said that Ibn Abbas commented: "No idolator had any more treaty or promise of safety ever since Surah Bara’ah was revealed. The four months, in addition to, all peace treaties conducted before Bara’ah was revealed and announced had ended by the tenth of the month of Rabi` Al-Akhir.’’وَإِنْ أَحَدٌ مِّنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ اسْتَجَارَكَ فَأَجِرْهُ حَتَّى يَسْمَعَ كَلاَمَ اللَّهِ ثُمَّ أَبْلِغْهُ مَأْمَنَهُ ذَلِكَ بِأَنَّهُمْ قَوْمٌ لاَّ يَعْلَمُونَ ]
(6. And if anyone of the Mushrikin seeks your protection then grant him protection so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Qur’an) and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not.)
Source: tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=9&tid=20750
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A_Lion_Of_Islam
Guest
Honestly, I know the verse by heart (In Arabic), however, didnt know how it was referred to in English… by the way, those commentaries are not mine… I cant comment on the Word of God unless I have enough education in Classical Arabic and other things which go into the making of a commentator on the Holy Qur’an… You need to study a lot to be an Islamic Scholar which I am not…
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jakasaki
Guest
Again this is a classic case of islam NOT being the worlds religion and the koran NOT being the worlds holy book unless you speak/write & read Arabic otherwise you cannot understand it fully.
To the OP ~ What is a pagan?
pa⋅gan /ˈpeɪgən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pey-guhn] –noun
- one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks.
- a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim.
- an irreligious or hedonistic person.
4. pertaining to the worship or worshipers of any religion that is neither Christian, Jewish, nor Muslim.
5. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of pagans.
6. irreligious or hedonistic.
Origin:
1325–75; ME < ML, LL pāgānus worshiper of false gods, orig. civilian (i.e., not a soldier of Christ), L: peasant, n. use of pāgānus rural, civilian, deriv. of pāgus village, rural district (akin to pangere to fix, make fast); see -an1
Related forms:
pa⋅gan⋅ish, adjective
pa⋅gan⋅ish⋅ly, adverb
Synonyms:
2. heathen, gentile. 5. See heathen.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/pagan?jss=1
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A_Lion_Of_Islam
Guest
Untrue… thats why we muslims read the translation AND the context of the verse… this will explain the verse for the non arabic speaking people…
the reason for this is because a verse in one language does not translate completely into english/ another language… if you know more than one language, then you would know what I am talking about… the Qur’an was revealed in Arabic (Classical Arabic)… therefore, its originality has been preserved by referring back to arabic even thought translations to other languages exist…
christians are referred to as An-Nasara in the Qur’an and the jews as Yahood.
So I know Christians and Jews are not Pagans even though some of their denominations practice Paganism… eg: celebrating Christmas…
Ps. I did not mean to put down anyones religious beliefs and this is not my claim. Please see evidence in the link
realtruth.org/articles/169-ttooc.html
J
Jehoshua
Guest
Is say the case with Islam and arabic is similar to the whole filioque thing in the creed where processit, proceeds in latin has a different meaning to the greek word which is why in the original greek version of the creed filioque is not present as it would mean something different and be heretical.
In latin however it has a meaning which is not heretical. Of course the Orthodox dispute that, but both groups are now looking into the terminology to determine once and for all if the whole issue is just a bit of linguistical confusion.
Point is however when a muslim refers to arabic its a similar thing, although they do it to an extent which is to everyone elses mind just trying to cover up fallacial, contradictory or embarrasing pieces of the Quran.
In latin however it has a meaning which is not heretical. Of course the Orthodox dispute that, but both groups are now looking into the terminology to determine once and for all if the whole issue is just a bit of linguistical confusion.
Point is however when a muslim refers to arabic its a similar thing, although they do it to an extent which is to everyone elses mind just trying to cover up fallacial, contradictory or embarrasing pieces of the Quran.
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A_Lion_Of_Islam
Guest
Have you read the Qur’an? (or a translation of it?)
J
Jehoshua
Guest
Indeed i have. Ive clearly not memorised it, but i have read it.
A
A_Lion_Of_Islam
Guest
What are the shameful bits in the Qur’an? Can you list them for me? Or are U simply making a statement and not providing evidence just like the others?
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