What is baptismal intent?

[Servitude_Of_Goodnes]

It is my understanding that in order for baptism to be valid in the RCC, there must be proper intent to “do what the Church does.” What exactly does this mean? Why is Mormon baptismal intent rejected over, say, a KJV only fundamentalist free grace landmarkist Baptist who, unlike Mormons, do not see baptism as sacramental? Mormons do accept baptism as sacramental for forgiveness of sins, yet Baptist don’t. Shouldn’t then Mormons be considered to have the same intent as the Catholic Church?

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Baptists and Catholics have theological differences, but believe in the same God. Mormonism is polytheistic and rejects much of Biblical Christianity.

 

[Servitude_Of_Goodnes]

Ok, but Mormons say it forgives sins, Baptist don’t. Baptist say it’s only symbolic and a way for someone to officially join a local church, not as a way for regeneration, which Baptist believe happens when someone “accepts Jesus as Lord and Saviour.”

 

[MT1926]

It is my understanding that in order for baptism to be valid in the RCC, there must be proper intent to “do what the Church does.” What exactly does this mean?

Baptism, one of the Seven Sacraments of the Christian Church, frequently called the “first sacrament”, the “door of the sacraments”, and the “door of the Church”.

Form - “I baptize thee” in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost (Spirit)."

Intention - Is to will to do what the Church does when she baptizes. Which is…The Church finds the reason for this possibility in the universal saving will of God and the necessity of baptism for salvation. (CCC 1256)

Why is Mormon baptismal intent rejected over, say, a KJV only fundamentalist free grace landmarkist Baptist who, unlike Mormons, do not see baptism as sacramental?

The main reason is because Mormons believe that God is only one of many gods who were once men. So even though they use the phrase “the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” in their usage this phrase takes on a meaning that is actually polytheistic and pagan rather than trinitarian.

Mormons do accept baptism as sacramental for forgiveness of sins, yet Baptist don’t. Shouldn’t then Mormons be considered to have the same intent as the Catholic Church?

Yes Catholics believe that baptism forgives sins, however this is not the “INTENT” that is being spoken of. Therefore, from my understanding, even if a fundamentalist doesn’t believe baptism forgives sins, as long as they use the proper form saying “the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” and they intend to use it because Jesus says it is necessary for salvation, then it is valid. Whether or not they believe it forgives sins is not what the Church means by intention.

Hope this helps,

God Bless

 

[Servitude_Of_Goodnes]

So what exactly is intention? Fundamentalist Baptist may have some anti-Catholic fervor.

 

[MT1926]

So what exactly is intention? Fundamentalist Baptist may have some anti-Catholic fervor.

I’m not sure what you are asking with this question?

Basically, the definition of intention is to signify or mean. So basically the intention of the person Baptizing has to be I am Baptizing you because it is necessary for salvation.

From the catechism.

VI. The Necessity of Baptism 1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation.60 He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them.61 Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament.62 The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are “reborn of water and the Spirit.” God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.

So basically if an anti-Catholic fundamentalist baptizes someone because Jesus commanded them to and because it is necessary for salvation, then the intention is the same.

Now if a different anti-Catholic fundamentalist baptizes someone just because he likes dunking people in a dunk tank, than I would say this persons baptism doesn’t have the same intention, even if he says the Trinitarian formula.

Does that help at all?

God Bless

 

[Servitude_Of_Goodnes]

Baptist don’t believe baptism is necessary for salvation though, they believe it’s a public sign of someone’s faith in Jesus Christ, that it symbolizes sin being washed, and that it imitates the death and resurrection of Christ. To Baptist, no grace is conferred in baptism. One can simply be saved the moment he/she accepts Jesus into their heart as Lord and Saviour.

 

[MT1926]

Tim Staples was a former Baptist and he has said that there is not “one” Baptist denomination. So it would depend on what that particular church teaches in order for it to be valid or not. Every situation would have to be reviewed on a case by case basis. If there were doubt to whether or not the person was Baptized the priest would perform a conditional Baptism.

As for the Mormon’s I think it is more about the Form than the Intent.

When it comes to Baptism you don’t want to jump to any conclusions. We aren’t the ones doing the Baptism it is the Holy Spirit that Baptizes. For a religion to just blindly say you were never Baptized because our church says you need to do this first or that is dangerous theology. It is in essence saying the Holy Spirit was incapable of Baptizing you the first time around.

Are you trying to understand a particular objection? or Are you trying to figure out if you were Baptized? I’m not sure if you are trying to understand Baptism or point out an error?

Let me know if I can help further.

God Bless

 

[Servitude_Of_Goodnes]

But no Baptist believes that baptism is necessary for salvation. That’s what makes them Baptist!

 

[MT1926]

But no Baptist believes that baptism is necessary for salvation. That’s what makes them Baptist!

I did a little more research and I have found this is a very common question of former Baptists. Did you leave or are thinking of leaving the Baptist church?

If you are worried whether or not your Baptism was valid I would speak to your local priest. I don’t think there is any written checklist that you answer to determine if your Baptism was valid or not. If you are coming into the Church you could always request a conditional Baptism, if you are worried about yours not being valid.

I think in the end even if the Baptist preacher feels Baptism isn’t necessary he still did the ceremony properly (using the Trinatarian formula) and because Jesus commanded him to do it. As I said earlier the minister isn’t the one who Baptizes it is the holy spirit. So anyone, even an atheist, could Baptize someone, in an emergency, all they have to do is intend to do what Jesus commanded, the Holy Spirit does the rest.

Not sure if I could help any further without a little more detail of why this answer is important to you. It seems like you want a checklist that everyone has to follow exactly and if they don’t check off every point then that Baptism shouldn’t be valid. I don’t think it works that way.

Hope this helps

God Bless

 

[Gorgias]

So what exactly is intention? Fundamentalist Baptist may have some anti-Catholic fervor.

The requirement is merely that the minister intends to do what the Church does: baptize with water and the Trinitarian formula. If that’s what the minister intends to do (as opposed to, I suppose, being an actor in a play and acting out a scene with a baptism in it, or maybe intending to mock or ridicule baptism), and he does it, then the baptism is valid.

(“Anti-Catholic fervor”, then, wouldn’t come into consideration in this case.)

Note, also, that a Mormon doesn’t intend to baptize in the name of the Trinitarian God, since he doesn’t believe in God in the way that Catholics and most Christians do.