What is Christ's Church?

[I_Leatherman]

Well, that is difficult for me to answer because I dont want to come across disrespectful-- so I might need to plead the fifth on this one.

I don’t mind how you come across - as long as you come across…

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I don’t mind how you come across - as long as you come across…

I appreciate that I just promised myself I would be nice and respectful and try not to offend people. My comments Im sure would offend some. Maybe not you but Im sure others. Some things are better left unsaid.

 

[Janet_S]

I don’t understand you though…because you do use the Pope as your authority. You guys admit to it and say that we are in serious sin because we don’t.

I can assure you though that my pastor is not my authority the way you think. The Lord is. He teaches me through His Word. As long as my pastor is teaching the truth, I am subject to him. If he gets off track, teaches false doctrine, or presumes to tell me what my wife and I can do in the bedroom or who I should vote for, then he is to be rejected.

Do you ever use Bible commentaries or Greek lexicons? If you do and you accept the authors’ Biblical interpretations, you are considering them as an authority. Were you born an authority on the Bible or did you learn about the Bible and about your brand of Protestant theology from someone?

Does everyone need to become fluent in Greek and Hebrew so they can read the Bible for themselves and discern what God is telling them without the need for a Scripture scholar or some other authority? Is this practical or even possible for most people to do?

Why do you have a problem with Catholics accepting an earthly authority, the Pope, to teach infallibly on issues of faith and morals when you accept an earthly authority, yourself, to teach infallibly on issues of faith and morals?

Does it make more sense that Jesus would set up a Church where there is one seat of authority (the Pope) as in the Catholic Church? Or does it make more sense that Jesus set up a Church where there are millions of seats of authority (each individual Christian) in the Protestant Churches?

The Catholic Church’s model for authority not only makes more sense, it is more Biblical. Look at Acts 15 for a NT example and Numbers 16 for an OT example of how God’s people were given earthly seats of authority for guidance and instruction.

 

[Blue_Serenity]

So, then, why don’t you? Instead of starting up your own churches, and straying away from His teachings?

Whoa, hold on there! I’m not a reformer and I won’t be starting any churches of my own. That would be a disaster!
I stick to Jesus and His Word by following what is asked of me in the scriptures. How can I stray away from His teachings when I am following His written instructions to show us how we can get to Heaven?

 

[rciadan]

Originally Posted by rciadan forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLFORHIM forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Hi,

Where is that in the Bible?*
*
*Acts 2:38–39, Acts 8:14–17, 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, 1Corinthians 6:15–20, Ephesians1:13–14, Ephesians 2:19-22, Ephesians 5:15–21, Phillipians 1:9–11, Phillipians 2:1

1 Corinthians 2:6–16, John 7:37–39 John 16:5–16, Acts 1:4–5, Romans 2:28–29, 1 Corinthians 12:1–3, Ephesians 6:17–18, 1 Peter 1:1-2, 1 John 2:26–27, Romans 8:1–17*
*I don’t have time to respond individually to each passage as I would be late for work and taking up too much space ( It would require a whole new thresd). I will state however, that **none **of these verses deny the ability of the Holy Ghost to actively dwell in The Church or his ability to work through an “institutional” structure. BTW, "Institution is your word, not mine. I would have chosen “Communal” rather.

1 *
*Quote:
. As a Catholic, I don’t believe any of us are “saved”. *
*Well that is so sad for you. *
*I notice that you edit my statement. If you read the whole thing, I explain myself. I believe in salvation, of course. I know that if I die right now I’ll see Jesus. I also am aware (and I praise God for this wisdom) that it is still possible for me to turn my back on Him while in this world. this gives me the strength that comes from the wisdom that begins with the fear of God. I’m not sad. I am almost deliriously joyful because I have been taught the Truth by the One, Holy ,Catholic, and Apostolic Church!
*Quote:
2. I believe that the Holy Ghost works through the Catholic Church to protect the deposit of faith and to guarantee all believers that the Truth is always taught. *

The only way the Holy Spirit can work through the CC is by individuals that have the Holy Spirit in them–notice the Scripture above:thumbsup:

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Originally Posted by rciadan forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLFORHIM forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
*Hi,

Where is that in the Bible?*

*Acts 2:38–39, Acts 8:14–17, 1 Corinthians 3:16-17, 1Corinthians 6:15–20, Ephesians1:13–14, Ephesians 2:19-22, Ephesians 5:15–21, Phillipians 1:9–11, Phillipians 2:1

1 Corinthians 2:6–16, John 7:37–39 John 16:5–16, Acts 1:4–5, Romans 2:28–29, 1 Corinthians 12:1–3, Ephesians 6:17–18, 1 Peter 1:1-2, 1 John 2:26–27, Romans 8:1–17*
*I don’t have time to respond individually to each passage as I would be late for work and taking up too much space ( It would require a whole new thresd). I will state however, that **none ***of these verses deny the ability of the Holy Ghost to actively dwell in The Church or his ability to work through an “institutional” structure. BTW, "Institution is your word, not mine. I would have chosen “Communal” rather.

1
*Quote:
. As a Catholic, I don’t believe any of us are “saved”. *
*Well that is so sad for you. *
*I notice that you edit my statement. If you read the whole thing, I explain myself. I believe in salvation, of course. I know that if I die right now I’ll see Jesus. I also am aware (and I praise God for this wisdom) that it is still possible for me to turn my back on Him while in this world. this gives me the strength that comes from the wisdom that begins with the fear of God. I’m not sad. I am almost deliriously joyful because I have been taught the Truth by the One, Holy ,Catholic, and Apostolic Church!
*Quote:
2. I believe that the Holy Ghost works through the Catholic Church to protect the deposit of faith and to guarantee all believers that the Truth is always taught. *
ALLFORHIM;1827788:

Again, the scripture you quote in no way support you statement; in fact, many of the passaages you quote are in contrast to your stated “opinion”, which is all your statement is.
Forgive me as I must go to work; but, I will address some of those passages at a later time. Perhaps as a new thread?

Hi,

Sorry that I cut off your comment I dont understand how you think those scriptures do not support my statement, unless of course I worded things wrong(which is possible)

You wanted to know where in Scripture it says that the Holy Spirit Dwells in us–right? Those passages do answer that question.

I’ll wait till you have time:thumbsup:

 

[I_Leatherman]

Imagine that you are a person who lives in the year 1401, before there were any Protestant churches in existence.

Hundreds of years before there was such a thing as “the sinner’s prayer,” the “Four Spiritual Laws,” or an “altar call.”

Decades before the invention of the printing press - any Bibles you know of are made by hand, and cost 25 years’ wages.

The only Church for you to attend is a Catholic Church.

The only Scripture you know is what is read out to you at Mass, and what you see in street theatre and in Church art.

How do you “get saved?”

Does anyone know the answer?

How are you ‘saved’?

(I think its possible to answer without worrying about giving offence.)

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Again, the scripture you quote in no way support you statement; in fact, many of the passaages you quote are in contrast to your stated “opinion”, which is all your statement is.
Forgive me as I must go to work; but, I will address some of those passages at a later time. Perhaps as a new thread?

How can you deny 1 Corinthians 6:19?
“Do you not know that your body is a temple of the holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?”

 

[Blue_Serenity]

Does anyone know the answer?

How are you ‘saved’?

(I think its possible to answer without worrying about giving offence.)

Pay attention to what you hear when they read the scriptures and live your life accordingly.
This is what had to happen for many years to follow, since the common folk couldn’t read or write.

 

[I_Leatherman]

Pay attention to what you hear when they read the scriptures and live your life accordingly.
This is what had to happen for many years to follow, since the common folk couldn’t read or write.

When who read the Scriptures?
Just wondering if the Scriptures were read in latin?

 

[Blue_Serenity]

When who read the Scriptures?
Just wondering if the Scriptures were read in latin?

How should I know? I wasn’t alive back then. Do you know?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I gave you two examples of churches that totally disagree on what the “essentials” are, and you still haven’t told me which one is right, or how you would know.

I gave you reasons why Mary could not be sinless and you still don’t tell me how you would know. Did it occur to you that I just didn’t care to answer your question? You were obviously just looking to fight so I didn’t bother. Besides, you HAD been given the answer before. By myself and other Protestants. I am sick of repeating myself.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

When who read the Scriptures?
Just wondering if the Scriptures were read in latin?

Hi,
Ok Im not sure what really went on back then Im only forty. I know Im old but not that old:
I would ASSUME that there were priests that would read from scriptures(I hope anyway) and that they would tell their congregation what was the biblical way to live. If they taught the gospel message and you heard and you accepted it and you lived you life worthy of Christ(loving all)I would hope that you are saved. I couldnt say for sure because I dont know anyone hearts. But if ,in your heart you truly believed in Jesus and lived a life according to Scripture then you would be saved. If these people were not getting that message well hopefully they got it from someone somewhere.

Hey it kind of sounds the same way of salvation now

What we should remember is that God first has to open your eyes to even want to know the truth. Even if these people were getting the right message, they may not have totally believed it and therefore were not saved.

I hope I said that without offense.

 

[runandsew]

Hi,
The only comment I can make on this is I use to go to a southern baptist church and I agree with them 100%. I dont know anything about Pentacostals.

Interesting comment.

The Southern Baptist Church probably wouldn’t consider themselves to be an infallible interpreter of scripture, so are you saying that you agree 100% with the things that they teach which might be false?

Just wondering.

 

[jmcrae]

I hope I said that without offense.

So much so, that now I’m wondering why you guys needed to start up your own religions?

Since it seems as though you believe that the Catholic Church was doing just fine before you guys did that?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

So much so, that now I’m wondering why you guys needed to start up your own religions?

Since it seems as though you believe that the Catholic Church was doing just fine before you guys did that?

Hi,
I dont know I wasnt there I only know what history books and history buffs say. Apparently People were mad at the CC so therefore the split and the rest is history.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Interesting comment.

The Southern Baptist Church probably wouldn’t consider themselves to be an infallible interpreter of scripture, so are you saying that you agree 100% with the things that they teach which might be false?

Just wondering.

Hi,

The 8 years I was there there was never a doctrine that I disagreed with. I believed in all the biblical pricnciples they taught. I actually became saved at this church. Is that more clear:thumbsup:

 

[jmcrae]

Hi,
I dont know I wasnt there I only know what history books and history buffs say. Apparently People were mad at the CC so therefore the split and the rest is history.

Yes, but maybe they went too far?

Maybe you should not be part of what they did to Jesus and His Church?

Just a thought.

 

[I_Leatherman]

Hi,
Ok Im not sure what really went on back then Im only forty. I know Im old but not that old:
I would ASSUME that there were priests that would read from scriptures(I hope anyway) and that they would tell their congregation what was the biblical way to live. If they taught the gospel message and you heard and you accepted it and you lived you life worthy of Christ(loving all)I would hope that you are saved. I couldnt say for sure because I dont know anyone hearts. But if ,in your heart you truly believed in Jesus and lived a life according to Scripture then you would be saved. If these people were not getting that message well hopefully they got it from someone somewhere.

Hey it kind of sounds the same way of salvation now

What we should remember is that God first has to open your eyes to even want to know the truth. Even if these people were getting the right message, they may not have totally believed it and therefore were not saved.

I hope I said that without offense.

Oh…alright…, both yourself and Blue Serenity were Catholics back then [1401 A.D.] - you both went to Mass, received the Sacraments, listened or at least heard the readings from Scripture. You were both obedient to the Church teachings, believed all the Dogmas and Doctrines of the Catholic Church, and you are both now hopefully in heaven or at least in purgatory.
Is that ok so far?

And this is true - you are both saved and in heaven, you both say, in spite of all the abuses and funny Doctrines in Christs Catholic Church?

How is that possible?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Yes, but maybe they went too far?

Maybe you should not be part of what they did to Jesus and His Church?

Just a thought.

Hi,
I am so far removed from what they did. I do follow Jesus Christ and I try to live a life worthy of Him according to the bible. I worship God all day long in different ways. I worship God within a church building surrounded by Fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. I am doing what Christ wants.