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Pixie_Dust
Guest
Just because Baptists don’t acknowledge that it happens doesn’t mean that it doesn’t actually happen. Is personal belief a necessary prerequisite for something to be true?
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ABostonCatholic
Guest
Baptists believe that the point in which you become regenerate is when you “accept Christ.” That is what they call justification, which cannot be lost. Sanctification occurs throughout the rest of one’s life, and glorification occurs when one enters Heaven. All of this is the process of salvation. But missionaries typically speak of “having been saved” as the point of justification, but that does not preclude the notions of “being saved” (=sanctification) and “will be saved” (=future sanctification and glorification).
The real difference is not that Baptists see it as a one time thing and Catholics see it as a process, but that Baptists believe that the initial justification cannot be lost, whereas Catholics affirm that it can be, and that the process of salvation involves continual rejustification after a mortal sin and sanctification.
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pismopal
Guest
Don’t look for logic. The person is just being provacative…needling…thats his schtick.Billions of Christians have been baptized, confirmed, repented, and married for almost 2 thousand years now and yet there is not one shred of evidence of the supernatural associated with it.
Love your logic.
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ckempston
Guest
am fairly convinced that the differences I am seeing are more than just apparent and are more serious that others here are making them out to be. I found the following article on the Global Catholic Network web site, under Theology. It applies directly to our conversation:
ewtn.com/library/Theology/BAPCATRO.HTM
The sections of interest state:
ewtn.com/library/Theology/BAPCATRO.HTM
The sections of interest state:
And, a couple paragraphs further down:
The CCC and even this article seem a little vague to me; however, what seems to be implied is that if you don’t believe Baptism is sacramental, it is invalid. Some Baptists may call it a sacrament, but I believe that is simply because of a misundertanding of what “sacarmental” means. Baptists don’t believe anything you do (i.e. baptism) can have any saving value, it is merely symbolic, or done in response to something which has already occured (Justification).
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Milliardo
Guest
Unfortunately there isn’t; a Catholic can well point to his baptism if that’s what you want to drive at, but no Catholic will say he was saved at such and such time; it’s a process for Catholics, not something that began somewhere.
As Pixie Dust again stated, their not believing in it doesn’t make it necessarily untrue. If we go by this logic, Muslims don’t believe Jesus as God the Son; does that make it untrue then that He is in fact the Son?
I’m not going to backread about this one, as far as I can tell no one here is convincing you to; that’s all up to you.
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rpp
Guest
I appreciate what you are saying here, but I think you have a misunderstanding about certain Catholic teachings. And I do not mean about baptism, but something more general.
I appears that you are saying that if a person, when providing a sacrament to someone, any sacrament, does not believe in the sacrament in the same sense as what the Catholic Church teaches, then the sacrament is not valid according to the Church. That is not correct. In fact that is the heresy of Donatism. catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9404hotm.asp
When it comes to baptism, the Catholic Church teaches that while normally done by a priest, anyone, even a non-believer, can validly baptize a person provided they use the right formula (water and Trinitarian reference.)
In general, unless there is an actual defect with a particular baptism, e.g. that it did not follow the proper formula, the Catholic Church accepts baptisms done in the Baptist Church.
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panoikei
Guest
The bible’s good enough for me no this.
Swimming this Tiber is making me tired. I’ve made it Once involuntarily, Once moving in with dad, and once coming home with my family…that’s 3 laps.
Swimming this Tiber is making me tired. I’ve made it Once involuntarily, Once moving in with dad, and once coming home with my family…that’s 3 laps.
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c659smith
Guest
Maybe this will help
Baptist
Who founded it?
John Smith and Thomas Hewys in 1609
What were they before?
Puritans
Which broke off from the
Church of England
Who started it?
King Henry the VIII in 1534
What was he before?
Catholic
Baptist
Who founded it?
John Smith and Thomas Hewys in 1609
What were they before?
Puritans
Which broke off from the
Church of England
Who started it?
King Henry the VIII in 1534
What was he before?
Catholic
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mmern
Guest
You know what grinds my gears… I was raised in both faiths and I have to say I pray ONLY to God. I am Catholic. I ASK the saints for intercession never do I pray TO a Saint and NEVER will I. Catholics who say we pray to Mary, do not know their faith. We ask her to pray for us. Think of your prayers! Think of our commandments. This is what I defend as a Catholic more than anything else. Idol worship? Hardly. We remember and are not praying to an idol- we remember Christ’s sacrifice as we see his lifeless body on the cross. Catholics, becareful with your posts here… We know what we “mean” but mean what you post. When I went to the Baptist church… I felt there were great Bible readings; however, not enough reverence for God. It is One True Church. If Jesus said “upon this rock build my church” and the Catholic Church is the oldest that has to be the correct church. He did not say Churches nor did He say over time this will not apply… He will not abandon Her… So I cannot either. If we are messing up terminology- we better fix it. The difference you ask? The Catholic Faith was established by Jesus. All others were established by man.
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