What is "Eastern Orthodox"?

[gregdaly]

Hello all.

I have lurked on several forums wondering about the true Church. I’ve narrowed it down to either the Eastern Orthodox Church or the Catholic Church. I ask this here because the Catholic Answers Forum seems to be the fairest Forum I have found on the Internet, where I can get answers from all kinds of people on issues of Faith.

My question is, what is it that makes one an Eastern Orthodox Christian?

I was an athiest and I admit that I came to believe in Christ through rational argument. It just makes more sense to me now, and I’m sure that was the Holy spirit at work. I guess I do have what one might call a “scholastic outlook” on Christianity.

Now, I just have to decide which Church is the true Church. Like I said, I’ve narrowed it down to the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholics.

I have a few questions for Orthodox - Do I need to believe in the Essences and Energies to be an Orthodox Christian? I don’t really understand it, and I find the Western doctrine on the unity of God more sensible and understandable.

I also believe in what the Catholic Church calls “Purgatory.” It just makes perfect sense.

I’m not sure about the infallibility thing yet, but I also believe that if there is a universal Church, it should have a head honcho here in earth.

I also believe in the Atonement, which - from what I have read in Eastern Orthodox Forums - the Eastern Orthodox reject (it’s almost hard to believe).

Can I be Eastern Orthodox if I believe these things?

If I can believe these things and still be Eastern Orthodox, I would join the Eastern Orthodox Church.

If I cannot believe these things while being a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church, then can anyone out there suggest another option for me?

Thank you very much.

In Christ,
Greg Daly

 

[Pythons]

Congratulations Greg! Welcome to Christianity and may God Bless your search and guide you…
…It would appear that you are in agreement more with the Catholic positions of the positions you’ve mentioned.
…I would have to let the Orthodox Christians answer on their end.
…I didn’t know the Orthodox rejected the atonement! Perhaps an Orthodox can confirm this.

 

[gregdaly]

Hello, Pythons,

…It would appear that you are in agreement more with the Catholic positions of the positions you’ve mentioned.

Yes. But I also find things attractive about the Eastern Orthodox - like the doctrine of theosis, and I agree more with the Eastern Orthodox on how the LOCAL church should be run, than with the Catholics (though, as I said, I do agree with Catholics that the whole Church should have a head honcho on earth) - in other words, I don’t believe the Pope should be able to interfere in the local Church unless it is an emergency of some sort. From what I understand, the Catholic Church teaches that the Pope can do anything he likes in the Church.

So I’m still up in the air.

…I didn’t know the Orthodox rejected the atonement! Perhaps an Orthodox can confirm this.

That’s why I said it’s almost hard to believe, but I’ve noticed a lot of Eastern Orthodox at odds with the Catholic Church about the matter.

Thank you for the “Congratulations.”

In Christ,
Greg

 

[Volodymyr]

ORTHODOXY

I think you seem to have already made decision. You are asking Orthodox if it is okay to believe Catholic things and be Orthodox. Also most telling for me was to look up meaning of “honcho”. Apparently this is kind reference to Bishop of Rome. We believe that Christ is head of church - that he promised never to leave his Church and sent Holy Spirit to us. So we do not believe such a Vicar needed for a not-absent Christ. Purgatory is sort of made-up place to explain where souls are. Just like they also created Limbo for others. If you already believe in this place and its name, then this is Catholic teaching. If you only believe that some are dead who can be helped by prayers then this is ORthodox teaching also. I hope you not making your choices only on basis of internet “sites” but reading actual books about Orthodoxy. But, if you already make up your mind - you should be Catholic.

 

[CountrySteve]

i sure don’t know much about eastern orthodox church teachings but id say i would be 1 if i could not b Catholic and I’d say be Catholic we were here first

 

[josephback]

.I didn’t know the Orthodox rejected the atonement! Perhaps an Orthodox can confirm this.

As far as I know they reject the Western scholastic understanding of the Atonement, not the idea itself. The Atonement is pretty central to Christianity.

Good for you to look for the true Church! God be with you on your journey

I like Orthodoxy a lot, but ultimately I had to join the Church that had Peter’s sucessor. The basic difference between them(Catholics and Orthodox) is the Pope.

 

[asd72]

I also narrowed it down to Catholic and Eastern Orthodox. The arguments for the pope convinced me. I would encourage you to keep looking into it, and try to go for what you believe to be true, rather than what appeals to you personally.

Welcome to Christianity

 

[SonCatcher]

OP-

I understand that Eastern Christians do not reject atonement per se. Rather, they hold to a different theory of atonement that does not include St. Anselm’s Satisfaction theory.

ORTHODOXY

I think you seem to have already made decision. You are asking Orthodox if it is okay to believe Catholic things and be Orthodox. Also most telling for me was to look up meaning of “honcho”. Apparently this is kind reference to Bishop of Rome. We believe that Christ is head of church - that he promised never to leave his Church and sent Holy Spirit to us. So we do not believe such a Vicar needed for a not-absent Christ. Purgatory is sort of made-up place to explain where souls are. Just like they also created Limbo for others. If you already believe in this place and its name, then this is Catholic teaching. If you only believe that some are dead who can be helped by prayers then this is ORthodox teaching also. I hope you not making your choices only on basis of internet “sites” but reading actual books about Orthodoxy. But, if you already make up your mind - you should be Catholic.

Eastern Orthodox Churches have Patriarchs just the same and Catholics also hold that Jesus is the head of the Church. Catholics just hold that the Bishop of Rome is the first among equals while many Orthodox look to the Bishop in Constantinople.

 

[josephback]

Catholics just hold that the Bishop of Rome is the first among equals while many Orthodox look to the Bishop in Constantinople.

I’ve heard it said that the bishop of Rome is the “first among MANY”, not the first among equals. To call him the “first among EQUALS’” all but concedes the Orthodox argument.

 

[Harpazo]

I’ve heard it said that the bishop of Rome is the “first among MANY”, not the first among equals. To call him the “first among EQUALS’” all but concedes the Orthodox argument.

In the modern Roman church the pope is not the first among equals but rather the first. He was regarded as such by the Orthodox before the schism, however.

As for inquiries about the atonement, I commend to you all this link: orthodoxconvert.info/Q-A.php?c=Salvation-The%20Atonement I hope that helps settle some of this questions on the subject.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[SonCatcher]

Thanks, Harpazo, for bringing that information. Though, is we want a critical analysis of St. Anselm, Latins need look no further than our current Pope (written before his pontificate).

Actually, I was hoping someone would post more positive information on Eastern Soteriology such as was posted by the initiator of this earlier thread on the subject or even what Wikipedia has to say. Eastern Christian teaching is quite beautiful on its own with no need to criticize the West in its promotion.

gregdaly,
If you find yourself drawn to Eastern Christian teaching but prefer to be in communion with the Bishop of Rome, there are 22 Eastern Catholic Churches that maintain the teachings of the Orthodox while being in Communion with Rome. You can hopefully find a parish near you by visiting ByzCath.org.

 

[Rawb]

Catholicism can be read about and mostly understood.

Orthodoxy cannot. Something about Orthodoxy - you can read and read and read about it, but until you experience it, you’ll never ‘get’ it.

If you want to compare them, you’ll have to actually attend a service of each.

I will pray for your discernment. I was Roman Catholic and became Orthodox (Chrismated yesterday). Roman Catholicism is very logical, especially to a Western mind. If you’d like to hear about my experience with Catholicism and why I left, feel free to PM me.

 

[SonCatcher]

Catholicism can be read about and mostly understood.

Orthodoxy cannot. Something about Orthodoxy - you can read and read and read about it, but until you experience it, you’ll never ‘get’ it.

If you want to compare them, you’ll have to actually attend a service of each.

I will pray for your discernment. I was Roman Catholic and became Orthodox (Chrismated yesterday). Roman Catholicism is very logical, especially to a Western mind. If you’d like to hear about my experience with Catholicism and why I left, feel free to PM me.

On the contrary, The more I learn about Eastern Christianity, the more deeply I delve into Eternal Mystery as expressed in Western Theology. It’s not so formulaic as you make it out to be.

As much as I’ve read, I “get” Western Theology much less now than 10 years ago and the mystery only gets deeper.

 

[Rawb]

On the contrary, The more I learn about Eastern Christianity, the more deeply I delve into Eternal Mystery as expressed in Western Theology. It’s not so formulaic as you make it out to be.

As much as I’ve read, I “get” Western Theology much less now than 10 years ago and the mystery only gets deeper.

I don’t mean “getting” the theology or the teachings, I mean “getting” the lifestyle, living it out. Living as an Orthodox. When I read about Catholicism I had a pretty good idea of what it would be like to live it out. Orthodoxy, well, I had to start living that before I actually understood it.

LoL I didn’t mean to slander Catholicism when I wrote that. Honestly I don’t know that I could say one way is better than the other, they’re just different, in a way that I can’t really put into words any more than I have.

I started practicing Orthodoxy (well, in a sense) when an Orthodox friend told me Catholics couldn’t fast. He was calling us wimps in a ribbing sort of way. I accepted his challenge to observe one fasting season the Orthodox way, and went to a Divine Liturgy (which I also promised him I would do). That’s when I first started understanding what he was saying.

S’just different.

 

[SonCatcher]

I don’t mean “getting” the theology or the teachings, I mean “getting” the lifestyle, living it out. Living as an Orthodox. When I read about Catholicism I had a pretty good idea of what it would be like to live it out. Orthodoxy, well, I had to start living that before I actually understood it.

LoL I didn’t mean to slander Catholicism when I wrote that. Honestly I don’t know that I could say one way is better than the other, they’re just different, in a way that I can’t really put into words any more than I have.

I started practicing Orthodoxy (well, in a sense) when an Orthodox friend told me Catholics couldn’t fast. He was calling us wimps in a ribbing sort of way. I accepted his challenge to observe one fasting season the Orthodox way, and went to a Divine Liturgy (which I also promised him I would do). That’s when I first started understanding what he was saying.

S’just different.

Likewise, I have understood an openness to fasting by Latins on a much greater scale than the prescribed minimums (even during the Lesser Lent). The minimums are for those who lack the strength to do more. The Catholic Church encourages her children to consider more. Contrariwise, I understand the Eastern principle of oikonomia permits loosened practices for the weak.

I hope you understand that I am not being critical of your descriptions and choices. I just see more common ground between East and West.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Eastern Orthodox are a lovely people of a lovely Christian group.

 

[Crusading_Canuk]

Hello all.

I have lurked on several forums wondering about the true Church. I’ve narrowed it down to either the Eastern Orthodox Church or the Catholic Church. I ask this here because the Catholic Answers Forum seems to be the fairest Forum I have found on the Internet, where I can get answers from all kinds of people on issues of Faith.

My question is, what is it that makes one an Eastern Orthodox Christian?

I was an athiest and I admit that I came to believe in Christ through rational argument. It just makes more sense to me now, and I’m sure that was the Holy spirit at work. I guess I do have what one might call a “scholastic outlook” on Christianity.

Now, I just have to decide which Church is the true Church. Like I said, I’ve narrowed it down to the Eastern Orthodox and the Catholics.

I have a few questions for Orthodox - Do I need to believe in the Essences and Energies to be an Orthodox Christian? I don’t really understand it, and I find the Western doctrine on the unity of God more sensible and understandable.

I also believe in what the Catholic Church calls “Purgatory.” It just makes perfect sense.

I’m not sure about the infallibility thing yet, but I also believe that if there is a universal Church, it should have a head honcho here in earth.

I also believe in the Atonement, which - from what I have read in Eastern Orthodox Forums - the Eastern Orthodox reject (it’s almost hard to believe).

Can I be Eastern Orthodox if I believe these things?

If I can believe these things and still be Eastern Orthodox, I would join the Eastern Orthodox Church.

If I cannot believe these things while being a member of the Eastern Orthodox Church, then can anyone out there suggest another option for me?

Thank you very much.

In Christ,
Greg Daly

Well from your beliefs, I’d say that you’d have a stronger belief in the dogmas of the Catholic Church (Purgatory for example is regarded as heresy by the Orthodox). But you also say that you prefer the structure of Orthodox parishes, there is a perfect solution for this. There are numerous rites which make up the Catholic Church, look into Eastern Catholicism the Eastern Catholic Churches are in communion with Rome, believe in Catholic dogma, but function like the Orthodox at the local level. Good luck, and welcome to the Faith!

 

[gregdaly]

I think you seem to have already made decision. You are asking Orthodox if it is okay to believe Catholic things and be Orthodox. Also most telling for me was to look up meaning of “honcho”. Apparently this is kind reference to Bishop of Rome. We believe that Christ is head of church - that he promised never to leave his Church and sent Holy Spirit to us. So we do not believe such a Vicar needed for a not-absent Christ.

I look at it this way. The bishop does not replace Christ though he is head of his diocese. A patriarch does not replace Christ though he is head of his patriarchate. I don’t think the Pope replaces Christ just because the Catholic Church says he is the head of the Catholic Church. Is there a reason why Eastern Orthodox cannot regard the Pope in the same way (I mean as a head who does not replace Christ)? It seems to me that the only difference is that the Pope has more people to be responsible for than the bishop or the patriarch. Is there another difference besides that?

Purgatory is sort of made-up place to explain where souls are. Just like they also created Limbo for others. If you already believe in this place and its name, then this is Catholic teaching.

I do not understand it as a place.

But you bring up a good point. To Catholics - if I became a Catholic, do I need to believe that it is a place? My understanding is that it is supposed to be spiritual. I don’t think the word “place” properly describes anything in the spiritual realm.

If you only believe that some are dead who can be helped by prayers then this is ORthodox teaching also.

Thank you. I understand that. It is one of the reasons I feel the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches are the best options.

What, in your understanding, is the difference between that and Purgatory?

I hope you not making your choices only on basis of internet “sites” but reading actual books about Orthodoxy.

When I have time. I just think the Internet is really convenient.

But, if you already make up your mind - you should be Catholic.

I have not made up my mind yet. I am still learning.

In Christ,
Greg

 

[gregdaly]

In the modern Roman church the pope is not the first among equals but rather the first. He was regarded as such by the Orthodox before the schism, however.

As for inquiries about the atonement, I commend to you all this link: orthodoxconvert.info/Q-A.php?c=Salvation-The%20Atonement I hope that helps settle some of this questions on the subject.

Thank you, Andrew. That was a very informative article. I notice that the article was specifically addressed to Protestants. Is there a difference between the Catholic and Protestant understandings of the Atonement?

Thanks.

In Christ,
Greg

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I look at it this way. The bishop does not replace Christ though he is head of his diocese. A patriarch does not replace Christ though he is head of his patriarchate. I don’t think the Pope replaces Christ just because the Catholic Church says he is the head of the Catholic Church. Is there a reason why Eastern Orthodox cannot regard the Pope in the same way? It seems to me that the only difference is that the Pope has more people to be responsible for than the bishop or the patriarch. Is there another difference besides that?

Technically, the Pope is the Bishop of Rome. That’s what he’s always been. His power and influence just gradually grew as Rome became the seat that fought most aggressively against heresy, (that, and, well, Catholics will tell you that it was given the primacy by the Apostles Peter and Paul) and therefore understood to be the head Church. But technically the Pope is a bishop like others, just with more power.

I do not understand it as a place.

But you bring up a good point. To Catholics - if I became a Catholic, do I need to believe that it is a place? My understanding is that it is supposed to be spiritual. I don’t think the word “place” properly describes anything in the spiritual realm.

If I recall correctly you can certainly believe that Purgatory is a ‘state’ instead of an actual place.

What, in your understanding, is the difference between that and Purgatory?

The Orthodox are rather silent on what they believe happens after death. They just know that they’re supposed to pray for the dead, although some Orthodox have subscribed to a theory called the ‘Toll Houses’ where your soul goes through this state/place and is tempted/questioned by demons, and your soul must be successful to enter heaven. It is merely a theory, though. Not something dogmatized by the Orthodox Church.