What is keeping Orthodox and Lutherans from unifying?

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EIF5A said:
Was the Bible “created” in the 4th century or “compiled” from pre-existing writings?

If compiled, were these pre-existing writings already truthful inspired revelations from God or did they become divinely-inspired revelations after the 4th century?
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They were pre existing but there were a lot of gospels out there like the Gnostic gospels that didn’t make the cut, how we got Saint Paul’s letters was because for three hundred years the Churches in Corinth, Philipi, evt. were copying the letters over and over so they would preserve what Paul was telling them. The Vatican has a massive collection of these documents including Saint Jerome’s notes and pre Christian Torahs, it has become a point of interest for the rabbis in Israel who are looking to get them back. They had to rely on sacred tradition to make sure the were only canonizing divinely inspired works. The Patristic Fathers were great help.
 
Memaw said:
Evidently not or Jon would be a Catholic.God Bless, Memaw
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RyanBlack said:
So everyone who is not Catholic does not understand Catholic teaching about transubstantiation? That is laughable–beyond laughable. Furthermore, it’s insulting to the intelligence of many non-Catholics who understand quite well (better than many Catholics) what the Catholic Church teaches about transubstantiation.
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I would say indeed it is. I know fully what the Catholic Church teaches about Transubstantiation and am not a Catholic
 
KP3243 said:
Most Protestants believe we worship statues and Mary --they don’t call her the Blessed Mother.
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I really don’t think most Protestants still believe that we worship statues or the Theotokos. These are polemics leftover from the Reformation era-polemics that are increasingly rejected. I would say that hardly any mainline Protestants believe that we worship statues (or icons) or the Theotokos. Increasingly, even Evangelicals and Pentecostals are starting to realize the difference between veneration and worship, and that we venerate the Theotokos and the saints, and that we sometimes use statues and icons in that veneration, but that we worship God alone. Of course, there are those who still believe us to be idolaters, but their numbers are much smaller than they used to be.
 
RyanBlack said:
So everyone who is not Catholic does not understand Catholic teaching about transubstantiation? That is laughable–beyond laughable. Furthermore, it’s insulting to the intelligence of many non-Catholics who understand quite well (better than many Catholics) what the Catholic Church teaches about transubstantiation.
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If I truly believe that Christ is present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist just as the Catholic Church teaches, and I choose to go another way, then I am the looser! And that is NOT a laughable matter, no matter how intelligent a person might be. Faith in the TRUTH is all that matters. And I believe that Jesus is telling us the Truth. Your free to think however you want, I am free to put my faith and trust in the Church Christ founded over 2,000 years ago and promised that the 'Gates of Hell" would not prevail against it. And that is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
If I truly believe that Christ is present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist just as the Catholic Church teaches, and I choose to go another way, then I am the looser! And that is NOT a laughable matter, no matter how intelligent a person might be. Faith in the TRUTH is all that matters. And I believe that Jesus is telling us the Truth. Your free to think however you want, I am free to put my faith and trust in the Church Christ founded over 2,000 years ago and promised that the 'Gates of Hell" would not prevail against it. And that is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. God Bless, Memaw
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What is laughable is your assertion that the proof that Jon does not understand Catholic teaching about transubstantiation is the fact that he is not Catholic–essentially saying that only Catholics understand transubstantiation. I understood Catholic teaching about transubstantiation for several years before I became Catholic. There are many non-Catholics who understand the Catholic teaching about transubstantiation perfectly well.
 
cath4alltime said:
I would say indeed it is. I know fully what the Catholic Church teaches about Transubstantiation and am not a Catholic
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To know about something and to truly believe it are two entirely different things. As Monsignor Chido used to say, It’s only about 18 inches between the head and the heart but it is the longest journey some people will ever make. God Bless, Memaw
 
RyanBlack said:
What is laughable is your assertion that the proof that Jon does not understand Catholic teaching about transubstantiation is the fact that he is not Catholic–essentially saying that only Catholics understand transubstantiation. I understood Catholic teaching about transubstantiation for several years before I became Catholic. There are many non-Catholics who understand the Catholic teaching about transubstantiation perfectly well.
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It would really be nice if you would stop putting words in my mouth. And I do believe Jon is big enough to defend himself without your insults. Like I said before, to know something and to believe it are two different things. When Jesus told the crowd that He was going to give them His Body and Blood; Eat MY Flesh and drink MY Blood, MY flesh is Food indeed, MY Blood is Drink indeed. Most of them walked away saying ‘This is a hard saying, who can believe it.’ And Jesus let them go. He didn’t change a thing. But he turned to His Apostles and ask, “Would you leave ME too?” and Peter said, “To whom would we go LORD, YOU have the Words of Eternal life.” That is what I meant when I said if you truly believed it you couldn’t walk away from the Holy Eucharist.God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
To know about something and to truly believe it are two entirely different things.
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I don’t disagree with that. However, you stated “It’s very clear you have no idea what the Holy Catholic Church believes and teaches about the Holy Eucharist.” To say that about Jon, when his posting history demonstrates that he understands quite well what the Catholic Church believes and teaches about the Holy Eucharist is absurd.
 
Memaw said:
It would really be nice if you would stop putting words in my mouth. And I do believe Jon is big enough to defend himself without your insults. Like I said before, to know something and to believe it are two different things. God Bless, Memaw
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I’m not putting words in your mouth, I’m pointing out the logical outcomes of the statements you’ve made, if anyone has been insulting in this thread, it is you.
 
RyanBlack said:
I really don’t think most Protestants still believe that we worship statues or the Theotokos. These are polemics leftover from the Reformation era-polemics that are increasingly rejected. I would say that hardly any mainline Protestants believe that we worship statues (or icons) or the Theotokos. Increasingly, even Evangelicals and Pentecostals are starting to realize the difference between veneration and worship, and that we venerate the Theotokos and the saints, and that we sometimes use statues and icons in that veneration, but that we worship God alone. Of course, there are those who still believe us to be idolaters, but their numbers are much smaller than they used to be.
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I take it you have never listened to Open Line Live, Patrick Madrid or Catholic Answers Live on EWTN radio they call in all the time.
 
KP3243 said:
I take it you have never listened to Open Line Live, Patrick Madrid or Catholic Answers Live on EWTN radio they call in all the time.
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I know that there are Protestants who believe these things (my mother’s family is Southern Baptist, my father’s family Pentecostal). However, a great many Protestants no longer believe that we worship the Theotokos, statues, and icons-even among the ranks of Evangelicals and Pentecostals. Furthermore, I would be reluctant to generalize based on those who call in to these shows.
 
KP3243 said:
I take it you have never listened to Open Line Live, Patrick Madrid or Catholic Answers Live on EWTN radio they call in all the time.
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And watch “Journey Home” on EWTN at 7 pm CST, every Monday night. God Bless, Memaw
 
Memaw said:
It would really be nice if you would stop putting words in my mouth. And I do believe Jon is big enough to defend himself without your insults. Like I said before, to know something and to believe it are two different things. When Jesus told the crowd that He was going to give them His Body and Blood; Eat MY Flesh and drink MY Blood, MY flesh is Food indeed, MY Blood is Drink indeed. Most of them walked away saying ‘This is a hard saying, who can believe it.’ And Jesus let them go. He didn’t change a thing. But he turned to His Apostles and ask, “Would you leave ME too?” and Peter said, “To whom would we go LORD, YOU have the Words of Eternal life.” That is what I meant when I said if you truly believed it you couldn’t walk away from the Holy Eucharist.God Bless, Memaw
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Obviously Jon doesn’t believe that he has walked away from the Holy Eucharist. It really isn’t for you to say that Jon doesn’t truly believe that the Holy Eucharist is the true Body and Blood of Christ (and no, I’m not putting words in your mouth, your posts have made it quite clear that this is exactly what mean to say). For you to do so is basically to call him a liar, since he has affirmed numerous time that he believes that the Holy Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ.
 
Memaw said:
To know about something and to truly believe it are two entirely different things. As Monsignor Chido used to say, It’s only about 18 inches between the head and the heart but it is the longest journey some people will ever make. God Bless, Memaw
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True, but just because some knows doesn’t mean they should be Catholic. Orthodox believe in the Real Presence, are they to be condemned because they do not believe in the Catholic definition but chose not to define what happens in the Holy Eucharist.
 
I’d like to back Ryan Black’s comments.

Jon probably knows better the Catholic position on the Eucharist better than than some Catholics (some of which I know).

And whenever one makes a broad generalization (Like “most”), if you don’t provide some reliable statistics to back your comments, then you are opening your argument for criticism.

It is always safer to use “some” in the absence of significant statistics, and if [in fact] you have personal knowledge of the issue at hand.

Also, Ryan is not being insulting at all. Your (Memaw) tone, however, does leave something else to be desired.
 
RyanBlack said:
I know that there are Protestants who believe these things (my mother’s family is Southern Baptist, my father’s family Pentecostal). However, a great many Protestants no longer believe that we worship the Theotokos, statues, and icons-even among the ranks of Evangelicals and Pentecostals. Furthermore, I would be reluctant to generalize based on those who call in to these shows.
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I am not generalizing the hardest thing for almost all Protestant converts I have ever known or worked with coming into the Church is the Blessed Mother. God Bless some of them for coming to RCIA and trusting The Lord enough to reveal her to them in time because a lot of them don’t make it into RCIA because of Marian doctrines, it breaks my heart they are so close and she is the last hold up they have which is so ironic to me because the Blessed Mother would never want to stand in any ones way to Jesus.
 
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