What is Lord Jesus?

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Hi,

It said that Lord Jesus has to natures: God and Human.

Be God and be Human, it depends on Quidity, not natures & one being can’t have two quidities. What was the quidity of Lord Jesus?
 
Hi,

It said that Lord Jesus has to natures: God and Human.

Be God and be Human, it depends on Quidity, not natures & one being can’t have two quidities. What was the quidity of Lord Jesus?
I will admit that I had to look up your term (which, FWIW, you seem to have misspelled). The primary definition of “quiddities,” for the benefit of others reading this thread, is:
the quality that makes a thing what it is; the essential nature of a thing.
Humans share some “natural” traits with God. Humans are compassionate by nature (if you believe John Locke over Thomas Hobbs). Humans, by large, do not find joy in the suffering of other humans (especially innocent and disadvantaged humans, such as children and the poor).

So there is no reason to question our Lord’s Hypostatic Union (the union of his human and divine natures) based on those attributes normally associated with both natures, such as compassion for the disadvantaged innocent. But, what about those traits that are strongly associated with humans, but not with God? Such as the seven deadly sins.

BUT, are those sins really part of human nature? Is it possible for a human to resist (for example), greed? If it is possible, then this proclivity is NOT part of human nature (because a creature cannot resist its own “essential” nature - that’s what “essential nature” means - of the essence, and we cannot resist our own essence).

Is it POSSIBLE for a person to live an entire life without committing ANY of those evils? Or, is it possible for a human, by an act of desire, to decide at some point, that s/he will no longer be subject to ANY of them?

In other words, is it possible for a human to overcome ALL attraction to ALL sin while living on earth? The Church calls this state “spiritual perfection,” and the Church has canonized and recognized three Doctors of the Church for teaching exactly this.

Sin is NOT PART of our essential human nature. Humans can overcome all attraction to sinful behavior while yet living on earth. Many Catholic Saints have done so.

So, sin is a stain upon our human nature, but it is not a PART of it. Jesus could adopt our human nature without also adopting its stain. There is thus no conflict between the human and divine nature of Our Lord. The two natures are completely compatible with each other.
 
I will admit that I had to look up your term (which, FWIW, you seem to have misspelled). The primary definition of “quiddities,” for the benefit of others reading this thread, is:

Humans share some “natural” traits with God. Humans are compassionate by nature (if you believe John Locke over Thomas Hobbs). Humans, by large, do not find joy in the suffering of other humans (especially innocent and disadvantaged humans, such as children and the poor).

So there is no reason to question our Lord’s Hypostatic Union (the union of his human and divine natures) based on those attributes normally associated with both natures, such as compassion for the disadvantaged innocent. But, what about those traits that are strongly associated with humans, but not with God? Such as the seven deadly sins.

BUT, are those sins really part of human nature? Is it possible for a human to resist (for example), greed? If it is possible, then this proclivity is NOT part of human nature (because a creature cannot resist its own “essential” nature - that’s what “essential nature” means - of the essence, and we cannot resist our own essence).

Is it POSSIBLE for a person to live an entire life without committing ANY of those evils? Or, is it possible for a human, by an act of desire, to decide at some point, that s/he will no longer be subject to ANY of them?

In other words, is it possible for a human to overcome ALL attraction to ALL sin while living on earth? The Church calls this state “spiritual perfection,” and the Church has canonized and recognized three Doctors of the Church for teaching exactly this.

Sin is NOT PART of our essential human nature. Humans can overcome all attraction to sinful behavior while yet living on earth. Many Catholic Saints have done so.

So, sin is a stain upon our human nature, but it is not a PART of it. Jesus could adopt our human nature without also adopting its stain. There is thus no conflict between the human and divine nature of Our Lord. The two natures are completely compatible with each other.
Dear David, I didn’t asked it!

When we ask “What is it?”, answer is a sentence that explains What is that thing and it means it is not other things. Let’s call this explanation is quiddity.

When some thing’s quiddity is wood, it means it can’t be tree, because tree is not wood and wood is not treel. Yes, tree shares some “natural” traits with wood, but wood is wood and is not tree.

What is the quiddity of Lord Jesus? this is my question.

And about your answer, there are some traits that both can’t have. Was Lord Jesus a
critter? If yes he can’t be the God and if no, he can’t be a human.

Thanks
 
What is the quiddity of Lord Jesus? this is my question.
Chastity, Diligence, Charity, Patience, Kindness, Humility, and Temperance.
And about your answer, there are some traits that both can’t have. Was Lord Jesus a
critter? If yes he can’t be the God and if no, he can’t be a human.
I consider myself (in this life) a “critter,” but I do not consider “critter-ness” part of my essential nature, because I believe that my essential nature (the bit of me that possesses the seven virtues I named above, which no other “critter” on earth possesses) is not mortal, but immortal (a trait I do not ascribe to any other critter than humans - sorry, folks - your cats and goldfish will not join you in heaven as immortal “critters”).

Jesus was as much a “critter” as I am. Jesus was a human being endowed with an eternal soul (which, unlike my soul, was divine in nature, but identical in all other respects). Jesus died in his body (as do all “critters”), but his “essential nature” proved immortal. I think you and I are not any different from Jesus in this regard. We share a common nature. We are both made in the image and likeness of God. Jesus was one of US - not some alien visitor to our planet.

That is my answer.
 
Chastity, Diligence, Charity, Patience, Kindness, Humility, and Temperance.
No! these are Attributes. Some one shows some thing and asks: “What is it?” and I answer: “wooden, Long-being, Flatness and usefulness.” Well! is it clear? Do you understand What is it’s quiddity? Can you say me what was that thing?

Q: What was Judas? A: He was a human.

Q:who is Lord Jesus? A:???
I consider myself (in this life) a “critter,” but I do not consider “critter-ness” part of my essential nature, because I believe that my essential nature (the bit of me that possesses the seven virtues I named above, which no other “critter” on earth possesses) is not mortal, but immortal (a trait I do not ascribe to any other critter than humans - sorry, folks - your cats and goldfish will not join you in heaven as immortal “critters”).

Jesus was as much a “critter” as I am. Jesus was a human being endowed with an eternal soul (which, unlike my soul, was divine in nature, but identical in all other respects). Jesus died in his body (as do all “critters”), but his “essential nature” proved immortal. I think you and I are not any different from Jesus in this regard. We share a common nature. We are both made in the image and likeness of God. Jesus was one of US - not some alien visitor to our planet.

That is my answer.
By your explanation, We can’t say he is 100% human and 100% God. He is not 100% human, because his “essential nature” proved immortal (And humen are not so) AND he is not 100% God, because he was as much a “critter” as you are (And the God is not so).
 
I honestly don’t understand your question. You say you only want to know one quiddity, that nature which is essential to a being. Perhaps *we *cannot have two quiddities, but Jesus was *entirely *man and *entirely *God. He wasn’t some fractional split. He was completely and equally both. To constrain Jesus to our own limits is impractical. His dual nature, or quiddity, since both were essential to his mission, is referred to as the hypostatic union.

If Jesus were not fully God, he could not save us. But He was also fully human, so that he was in fact saving us.
 
I honestly don’t understand your question. You say you only want to know one quiddity, that nature which is essential to a being. Perhaps *we *cannot have two quiddities, but Jesus was *entirely *man and *entirely *God. He wasn’t some fractional split. He was completely and equally both. To constrain Jesus to our own limits is impractical. His dual nature, or quiddity, since both were essential to his mission, is referred to as the hypostatic union.

If Jesus were not fully God, he could not save us. But He was also fully human, so that he was in fact saving us.
Can One being can be God and man in first time? You say: “Jesus was *entirely *man and *entirely *God” I ask: “Is it possible that Jesus was *entirely *mortal and *entirely *immortal?” The answer is: “He has two natures: God and man.” I asked: “be God or be Human, it depends on quddity, not natures”

I just want know: “What is he?”
 
I ask: “Is it possible that Jesus was *entirely *mortal and *entirely *immortal?”
No. But man is not entirely mortal. Man is immortal (in his essential nature), just as Jesus was. There is no conflict here. What is there about this that you cannot understand???

OH, I think I might get it!!! God is eternal, and humans are not eternal. We both share immortal natures, but (for us) that’s a one-way street. We are forwardly immortal, but not backwardly immortal. We always WILL exist, but we have not always EXISTED.

So humanity is a subset of divinity (and divinity goes both ways). There is nothing incompatible between divine and human nature, but human nature is a limited subset of divine nature. Thus, a being (such as Jesus) could fully possess a divine nature, and (by definition) fully possess a subset of the divine nature, which we call human nature (any PORTION of the divine nature that is shared by humanity is common to both natures, and Jesus could obviously possess this portion of the whole that he already possessed).

Hey, nobody here disagrees!
 
No. But man is not entirely mortal. Man is immortal (in his essential nature), just as Jesus was. There is no conflict here. What is there about this that you cannot understand???
Dear David,

At first, your answer is logically wrong! Man is entirely mortal, because God can Destroy him! We exist just because God wants so! If some part of us, doesn’t die, it because God wants so, he can get back our life, ever in our essential nature, But he wants we have a alive part that doesn’t die. It doesn’t mean we are not entitrly mortal. If you believe that man never dies in some parts, it mean that you think God can’t stop his life, Fully! And What does it mean?

On the other hand, Is there any diffrence between God and Human? O.K! We got some Agreements!

Next Question: Can one being, know every thing and just know what his father learned to him?(He said the son and the angles doesn’t know and just father knows! so he needs father to know! Can one being be Needless and needful?)

Next Question: Can one being Invisible and visible?(God is Invisible according to the scriptures, Lord Jesus was visible!)

Next Question: …

It is not about immortality, it is about attributes.
 
Can One being can be God and man in first time? You say: “Jesus was *entirely *man and *entirely *God” I ask: “Is it possible that Jesus was *entirely *mortal and *entirely *immortal?” The answer is: “He has two natures: God and man.” I asked: “be God or be Human, it depends on quddity, not natures”

I just want know: “What is he?”
I don’t think you understand your own question. Or you are wording things terribly. The definition of quiddity is “the essential nature of a thing.” Jesus had two essential natures. Therefore, he has two quiddities. You can’t just presume that He has to have *only *one. Here is a fun little saying about suppositions. “Moses supposes his toes are roses. But everyone know that toes aren’t roses, so Moses supposes erroneously.”
 
I don’t think you understand your own question. Or you are wording things terribly. The definition of quiddity is “the essential nature of a thing.” Jesus had two essential natures. Therefore, he has two quiddities. You can’t just presume that He has to have *only *one. Here is a fun little saying about suppositions. “Moses supposes his toes are roses. But everyone know that toes aren’t roses, so Moses supposes erroneously.”
Dear, Let’s Call it “WII”!

WII is what shows what being is not another being! For example, Your WII is human. It means you are not angle or God or any other thing! YHWH’s WII is God. It means he is not any other thing.

Now, What is Lord Jesus’ WII?
 
But he wants we have a alive part that doesn’t die. It doesn’t mean we are not entitrly mortal.
I presume you mean to ask if we are not entirely “immortal.”

Every living thing has life only because God grants life. This includes even Satan and the demons. And it certainly includes us. All life lives at the pleasure of God. God could sterilize all life from the universe with only a thought. But he could not kill himself, even if he wanted to.

I said that Our Lord’s Soul (by which I meant Jesus) was identical in every respect to ours with the exception that Our Lord’s soul was divine in nature. That means that Our Lord’s soul cannot be destroyed, even if God (in his complete triune nature) willed it.

Yes, there are things that even God cannot do. Such as kill himself.
Next Question: Can one being, know every thing and just know what his father learned to him?(He said the son and the angles doesn’t know and just father knows! so he needs father to know! Can one being be Needless and needful?)
I think that question is not really on-topic for your original question. You should probably post that as an independent question (and, why not? It’s only been posted here about a thousand times).
Next Question: Can one being Invisible and visible?(God is Invisible according to the scriptures, Lord Jesus was visible!)
Where, in the New Testament, do you find the notion that God is “invisible?”
Next Question: …
It is not about immortality, it is about attributes.
Indeed, it is.
 
Dear, Let’s Call it “WII”!

WII is what shows what being is not another being! For example, Your WII is human. It means you are not angle or God or any other thing! YHWH’s WII is God. It means he is not any other thing.

Now, What is Lord Jesus’ WII?
By the Nicene Creed, we declare that Jesus is One being who is fully God and fully man. To suppose he is anything less than fully God is Arianism, so named for Arius, who believed that God could not be part of His own creation, and so therefore Christ was not truly God. This is classified as heresy. To deny his humanity is Docetism - the belief that he was not genuinely human, but only appeared to possess a human form or nature. This is also classified as heresy. As a Catholic, I believe that Jesus was not limited to one “WII.” Now, I’m done with this “choose your own heresy” adventure. You really are not going to get a different answer from me.
 
I presume you mean to ask if we are not entirely “immortal.”

Every living thing has life only because God grants life. This includes even Satan and the demons. And it certainly includes us. All life lives at the pleasure of God. God could sterilize all life from the universe with only a thought. But he could not kill himself, even if he wanted to.

I said that Our Lord’s Soul (by which I meant Jesus) was identical in every respect to ours with the exception that Our Lord’s soul was divine in nature. That means that Our Lord’s soul cannot be destroyed, even if God (in his complete triune nature) willed it.
Just God is immortal. Other living things are mortal, because God wants to it be alive for a time or forever. So they are mortal, because they can die.

And God is immortal, because he never dies and death has no meaning to a selfexist.
Where, in the New Testament, do you find the notion that God is “invisible?”
Oh my God! a bible sholar asks this! Yes! St.John and St.paul both wrote it. Do you realy think God is visible?

(John 1:18) – “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
(John 5:37) – “"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
(John 6:46) - "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
(1 Tim. 6:15-16) – “He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.”
I think that question is not really on-topic for your original question. You should probably post that as an independent question (and, why not? It’s only been posted here about a thousand times).
Dear David, I just look for a reasonable faith, no thing more, Please help me find the answer,
 
By the Nicene Creed, we declare that Jesus is One being who is fully God and fully man. To suppose he is anything less than fully God is Arianism, so named for Arius, who believed that God could not be part of His own creation, and so therefore Christ was not truly God. This is classified as heresy. To deny his humanity is Docetism - the belief that he was not genuinely human, but only appeared to possess a human form or nature. This is also classified as heresy. As a Catholic, I believe that Jesus was not limited to one “WII.” Now, I’m done with this “choose your own heresy” adventure. You really are not going to get a different answer from me.
I know, but I can’t undertstand: God is a selfexist and man is critter. How can Jesus be fully God and fully man? How can he be needless and needful? And many other God’s Traits and man’s Traits that the other one can’t have.
 
No! these are Attributes. Some one shows some thing and asks: “What is it?” and I answer: “wooden, Long-being, Flatness and usefulness.” Well! is it clear? Do you understand What is it’s quiddity? Can you say me what was that thing?

Q: What was Judas? A: He was a human.

Q:who is Lord Jesus? A:???

By your explanation, We can’t say he is 100% human and 100% God. He is not 100% human, because his “essential nature” proved immortal (And humen are not so) AND he is not 100% God, because he was as much a “critter” as you are (And the God is not so).
I believe that you are thinking as man does and not as God does. This risks manufacturing a God and a Jesus according to your own preferences and limitations. Here are the applicable sections from the catechism, which defines Christ for all of Christianity:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p122a3p1.htm#II
 
I will admit that I had to look up your term (which, FWIW, you seem to have misspelled). The primary definition of “quiddities,” for the benefit of others reading this thread, is:

Humans share some “natural” traits with God. Humans are compassionate by nature (if you believe John Locke over Thomas Hobbs). Humans, by large, do not find joy in the suffering of other humans (especially innocent and disadvantaged humans, such as children and the poor).

So there is no reason to question our Lord’s Hypostatic Union (the union of his human and divine natures) based on those attributes normally associated with both natures, such as compassion for the disadvantaged innocent. But, what about those traits that are strongly associated with humans, but not with God? Such as the seven deadly sins.

BUT, are those sins really part of human nature? Is it possible for a human to resist (for example), greed? If it is possible, then this proclivity is NOT part of human nature (because a creature cannot resist its own “essential” nature - that’s what “essential nature” means - of the essence, and we cannot resist our own essence).

Is it POSSIBLE for a person to live an entire life without committing ANY of those evils? Or, is it possible for a human, by an act of desire, to decide at some point, that s/he will no longer be subject to ANY of them?

In other words, is it possible for a human to overcome ALL attraction to ALL sin while living on earth? The Church calls this state “spiritual perfection,” and the Church has canonized and recognized three Doctors of the Church for teaching exactly this.

Sin is NOT PART of our essential human nature. Humans can overcome all attraction to sinful behavior while yet living on earth. Many Catholic Saints have done so.

So, sin is a stain upon our human nature, but it is not a PART of it. Jesus could adopt our human nature without also adopting its stain. There is thus no conflict between the human and divine nature of Our Lord. The two natures are completely compatible with each other.
Hi David,

Fascinating post 👍

Could you guide me to any references within Catholicism that points to sin not being part of our essentail human nature please?

God bless and thanks 🙂
 
Please help me find the answer,
You have been given the answer - you simply choose not to accept it. Once created by God, man’s soul is immortal. Man is not a body with a soul, rather man is a soul with a body.

Do you believe in angels?
 
You have been given the answer - you simply choose not to accept it. Once created by God, man’s soul is immortal. Man is not a body with a soul, rather man is a soul with a body.

Do you believe in angels?
I believe in all teachings of Catholic Church, but I have the right to ask question and look for a reasonable faith. Yes, I got some answers, but I’m not Convinced. So I ask again.

It is simple, Body dies because God wants. If God want he can stop death all over the world even for bodies. On the other hand, Soul doesn’t die, because God wants so. If God wants souls would be dead. So body and soul, has same condition: both are mortal, But god keeps the soul alive. Just God is immortal, because he is selfexist.

Furthermore, As I said, Question is not just about immortlity, it is about Traits that God has and man doesn’t have And Traits that Man has and God doesn’t have. Being needy and needless, being visible and invisible, …
 
I believe in all teachings of Catholic Church, but I have the right to ask question and look for a reasonable faith. Yes, I got some answers, but I’m not Convinced. So I ask again.
Saint Augustin said: “Understanding is the reward given by belief. Do not try to understand so that you may believe, but believe so that you may understand.”

Faith comes first, although we are incapable of completely understanding God, as He is infinite and we are finite.
It is simple, Body dies because God wants. If God want he can stop death all over the world even for bodies. On the other hand, Soul doesn’t die, because God wants so. If God wants souls would be dead. So body and soul, has same condition: both are mortal, But god keeps the soul alive. Just God is immortal, because he is selfexist.
We receive new bodies at the resurrection - by God’s command.
Furthermore, As I said, Question is not just about immortlity, it is about Traits that God has and man doesn’t have And Traits that Man has and God doesn’t have. Being needy and needless, being visible and invisible, …
Mankind cannot be saved by mankind. Only God can save mankind. But, God chose to allow His Son to take flesh for our salvation. But, then Jesus would no longer be God unless He kept His divine nature while also assuming a human nature. To be God, and to be man, Jesus had to have both natures. This is simply God’s plan that has been revealed to mankind. We cannot understand it completely, as we are simply creations. We take it on faith that this is how God chose to do things.
 
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