what is lust?

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RachelKH

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my husband says lust is only when you look at others and imagine doing sexual things with them.
i think there is a lot more that should be called lusting.
i think looking at others’ bodies and evaluating them for how sexy they are is lusting.
i think looking at others to get that tight sexual interest going is lusting.
i think looking at others w/o caring who they are but just what pleasure they bring to your eyes and mind due to their curves and exposed sexual parts is lusting.
any thoughts or better definitions or explanations to help me and him?
 
RachelKH said:
my husband says lust is only when you look at others and imagine doing sexual things with them.
i think there is a lot more that should be called lusting.
i think looking at others’ bodies and evaluating them for how sexy they are is lusting.
i think looking at others to get that tight sexual interest going is lusting.
i think looking at others w/o caring who they are but just what pleasure they bring to your eyes and mind due to their curves and exposed sexual parts is lusting.
any thoughts or better definitions or explanations to help me and him?
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Are you the person who made the thread about your husband looking at your daughters “in that way”?

If so, I don’t think conventional ideas about what kind of looking is appropriate apply to him. I’m not a man, but I would think (hope?) that a man would never admire his daughter’s body in that way? Maybe some guys with daughters can confirm this.
 
Hi Rachel,

I think from your other posts, it has been established that your husband has a very skewed view of sexuality and that above that me may suffer from some narcissistic and perversion issues. I remember your other posts about his shocking behavior with your daughters and to be honest hearing that you are even giving him the opportunity to argue the nuances of the word lust with you just seems unwise. You already know in your heart that something is off. In my opinion, giving him the chance to argue over definitions just drags out his manipulation even further.
But since you asked, and maybe just to affirm what you already know in your heart, I will tell you what I believe lust to be. Lust is when you look at another person and think of what you can take from their body, rather than what you can give to their soul.
 
i’m just having so much trouble knowing what to do. he says he is no longer looking with lust at others, but i still see his eyes go to my or others’ breasts, etc.
he says he is working on writing a letter to our oldest daughter to admit his sin of lusting and his repentance and apologize for treating women wrong and to state that he never lusted for her, but if he doesn’t know exactly what lust is and is not, then he feels he has nothing to really apologize for because he says looking at breast, etc is not lust unless he actually thinks of completing a sex act with them.
i want to divorce him and have our marriage annulled because i see no hope that he will ever understand that his behavior is wrong, but i don’t want to be divorced if he could change. but i need to be able to move on if this will never be right. i need so badly to have a loving relationship with a life-partner as my vocation is wife and mother. i just need to know what i am asking of him is not more than is possible for a man.
 
Rachel - leave for good and don’t look back. That is the only thing I can tell you in good conscience.

As far as it being “possible” for a man to control his eyes?
I have been married for almost 3 years, dating 2 years before that. I have never, not even once, not even for a half a second, caught my husband staring at another women. Ever. And this is a man in his 20’s who grew up in the sex saturated culture of today. When we watch a movie and something risqué comes on the screen, I see that he quietly and without fanfare casts his eyes down for a few second. Yes, it is possible for a man to have domain over his desires. Your husband is mincing words and scamming you. I have no idea if he could change or not, I think we can all change. But to be honest, the time for change has come and gone. He has lusted after his own children, devestated his wife, and turned his family into something a family is not meant to be.
 
Rachel, it really doesn’t matter if this man has stopped looking ‘in lust’ because the damage has already been done to your daughters and your family. Don’t even continue the conversation, because it’s moot. What is the point of continuing this conversation with him? If he truly doesn’t know what lust is, then that right there is a huge red flag. He’s been abusive, your one daughter is battling an eating disorder because of it, right? There should be no open window for discussion on him coming back into your lives now. Let him discuss his sexual deviance with a psychologist. By keeping you talking about it he’s keeping you second guessing yourself.
 
Lust is a capital vice. As such it has many daughters. It is very serious. Lust is defined as an inordinate desire for venereal pleasure (I think that is from St. Thomas).

From this definition, we can see that it is up to the person to decide whether or not his desire is inordinate. I think the fact that a man realized that he had a problem and is working on it is wonderful. Many never do this. It so easy to think that lust is not sinful. We live in a society where lust is commonly presented as normal.

I think that it is not anyone’s place to judge whether or not the man is committing a sin. For me, noticing that someone is attractive is not a sin. The sin starts if I turn around to watch them walk away, or stare for a long time thinking that no one will notice, etc. These things that require an extra effort, or would seem shameful if someone noticed are what I consider inordinate.

The opposite of lust is the virtue of temperance. Temperance is defined as: Moderation of the attraction of pleasures and balance in the use of created goods.

Leave for good? Because he has looked at other women? Does this man have any good points? Is he otherwise a good husband and a good father?
 
MtnDwellar said:
Lust is a capital vice. As such it has many daughters. It is very serious. Lust is defined as an inordinate desire for venereal pleasure (I think that is from St. Thomas).

From this definition, we can see that it is up to the person to decide whether or not his desire is inordinate. I think the fact that a man realized that he had a problem and is working on it is wonderful. Many never do this. It so easy to think that lust is not sinful. We live in a society where lust is commonly presented as normal.

I think that it is not anyone’s place to judge whether or not the man is committing a sin. For me, noticing that someone is attractive is not a sin. The sin starts if I turn around to watch them walk away, or stare for a long time thinking that no one will notice, etc. These things that require an extra effort, or would seem shameful if someone noticed are what I consider inordinate.

The opposite of lust is the virtue of temperance. Temperance is defined as: Moderation of the attraction of pleasures and balance in the use of created goods.

Leave for good? Because he has looked at other women? Does this man have any good points? Is he otherwise a good husband and a good father?
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MtnDwellar - This man has admitted to staring at his daughters in a sexual way. He purposefully has invaded in their privacy while they were in the shower. The teenaged girls in the house are scared of him. On top of that, he has played psychological games trying to put the blame on his wife, calling her irrational for being uspet. Yes, she needs to leave - yesterday.
 
he is not a good husband or father – he leaves all discipline to me, leaves all household chore responsibilities and delegation to me, leaves all decisions about the children, house, etc up to me because he doesn’t care to be involved in any but his own personal things, does not offer any emotional bonding, support, attachment etc to myself or our 6 children. he works hard at his jobs and will support us financially, but is only self-focussed and un-empathetic in all ways. he is all about himself, which by 46 years of age w/ children, he should be over by now. he lies and neglects and belittles and abandons even while he lived here.
 
MercyMia said:
MtnDwellar - This man has admitted to staring at his daughters in a sexual way. He purposefully has invaded in their privacy while they were in the shower. The teenaged girls in the house are scared of him. On top of that, he has played psychological games trying to put the blame on his wife, calling her irrational for being uspet. Yes, she needs to leave - yesterday.
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There seems to be more information than what is presented in this thread. Still, there are always two sides to every story. I would be reluctant to advise someone to leave a marriage without hearing the whole story.

We all know that marriage is a sacrament which creates an eternal bond. I love to see people stay together and work through problems.

Rachel wrote: “he is not a good husband or father – he leaves all discipline to me, leaves all household chore responsibilities and delegation to me, leaves all decisions about the children, house, etc up to me because he doesn’t care to be involved in any but his own personal things, does not offer any emotional bonding, support, attachment etc to myself or our 6 children.”

From these criticisms, it does not seem that anyone is in immediate danger. It also seems like her problems are subjective. Some people would like being charge of discipline and the household.

Are annulments granted on these types of grounds?
 
MtnDwellar said:
There seems to be more information than what is presented in this thread. Still, there are always two sides to every story. I would be reluctant to advise someone to leave a marriage without hearing the whole story.

We all know that marriage is a sacrament which creates an eternal bond. I love to see people stay together and work through problems.

Rachel wrote: “he is not a good husband or father – he leaves all discipline to me, leaves all household chore responsibilities and delegation to me, leaves all decisions about the children, house, etc up to me because he doesn’t care to be involved in any but his own personal things, does not offer any emotional bonding, support, attachment etc to myself or our 6 children.”

From these criticisms, it does not seem that anyone is in immediate danger. It also seems like her problems are subjective. Some people would like being charge of discipline and the household.

Are annulments granted on these types of grounds?
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In “normal” situations, yours is good advice.
However, if you’d go back and read this mother’s past postings, I can’t fathom anyone encouraging her to do anything but get her daughters and herself out of this sick situation.
 
He’s twisting things around to make you sound like the bad guy…the prude.

And in light of the other thread in which he admitted to lust towards CHILDREN??? and now you know his defintion involves fanticizing doing sexual things??? Keep him as far away from those poor girls already. I fear that there are things you have yet to hear about.
 
SarahR said:
In “normal” situations, yours is good advice.
However, if you’d go back and read this mother’s past postings, I can’t fathom anyone encouraging her to do anything but get her daughters and herself out of this sick situation.
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There must be waaay more information from previous threads, or another source.
I am budding out.
 
MtnDwellar said:
There must be waaay more information from previous threads, or another source.
I am budding out.
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MtnDwellar - In another situation your advice would be 100% on the mark, you are very right about making seperation a last resort. I didn’t mean to discount the good advice you gave! This is an extreme situation indeed.
 
One thing, it is very normal for a man to look at his wife’s breasts. Don’t fault him for that! Heck, I will worry the day DH stops glancing at mine.

The Church defines lust for us

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2351.htm

**2351 ***Lust *is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
 
kage_ar said:
One thing, it is very normal for a man to look at his wife’s breasts. Don’t fault him for that! Heck, I will worry the day DH stops glancing at mine.

The Church defines lust for us

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2351.htm

**2351 ***Lust *is disordered desire for or inordinate enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered when sought for itself, isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes.
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Have you read the thread at all?

No where has the OP noted her husband looked at her. In fact all examples (his and hers) involves “others” which, from her past posts we can see that those others are minor daughters.
 
Guys I don’t mean to “police” this thread, but Rachel’s case is very troubling. I am suggesting that anyone who wants to offer their very valuable advice to her first reads her previous posts. I say this because one of his tactics has been to make Rachel feel like his perverted behavior is all in HER head. There are underage children in their home who have told her they feel violated by their father. I know that from this one post it does not seem as troubling as the whole story really is. While none of us can offer her professional advice, we do want to make sure we give her careful advice. Of course we all know that a man admiring his wife’s physical feature is not sinful. That is not what the Church teaches and I would never want that to be what is conveyed here. The issue at hand is that he openly looks at his daughters (and most other women) in a salacious way. Her daughters are terrified, one now has an eating disorder and cutting issues. He also works with children - in a Catholic school. The whole scenario is very much an exception to a normal sexual married relationship.
 
i’m sorry – i didn’t mean to cause trouble – i’m just trying to get my head around all he says and how reality fits into our situation.
 
RachelKH said:
i’m sorry – i didn’t mean to cause trouble – i’m just trying to get my head around all he says and how reality fits into our situation.
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LOL! Believe me Rachel, you didn’t cause trouble-we on Catholic Answers love to argue! I just hope no one has any hard feelings at the end of the day.

(In particular Kage and Purple sunshine-they’re like two angry pit bulls! Believe me,-I saw them brawl over whether or not the sky is blue! Just kidding you two! Nothing but love your way!)

If we agreed on everything what would be the point of us being here?
 
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