What is more Christian -socialism or Capitalism?

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Rozellelily

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Or would the answer be somewhere in the middle?

Socialism sounds good in theory because then it’s about caring about and looking after everyone in society.
On the other hand,while capitalism sounds bad on the surface and like creating a society of each “man” for himself/dog eat dog,at the same time a capitalist society encourages greater wealth creation in the country and that wealth can be taxed higher and used to help people in need.

What is your view?
 
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Ananias and his wife Sapphira sold a piece of property and lied about the price they received.
The story is not this but we see that all new converts brought into the depository for aiding fellow Christians and the poor.
We see the first acts of socialism here in that as a Catholic you own nothing as all our wealth etc belong to the Church and the church brings aid to the needy this is still the case 2000 years later so we see the church is the first social welfare system that is set up to feed the poor etc.
So Socialism can work but not in the hands of the state or any other body other than the church.
There is some confusion today about this system and the left are for it without knowing how it works or how it has worked in the past and the right are against it because they see it as stealing from the rich or well off to give to lay abouts and fail to see how it was not the system but the people running the system that got it wrong, hence the death of Ananias and his wife.
 
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Thanks @Sevenswords,

How come God killed Sapphira and her husband?
I don’t want to question God,but it seems a bit extreme considering that today there are many people that are greedy,and some Christians who are not necessarily greedy but are very rich and live much more “lavishly” than others and spent big on things that could otherwise been used to help the disadvantaged.
How come God took this “extreme” approach back then but doesn’t in today’s era?
 
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Rozellelily said:
What is your view?
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I adopt the social teaching of the Catholic Church which is the true Christian way , rejecting Capitalism and Socialism .

Political rectitude depends on right morals formed by the Church’s social teaching . Neither Capitalism nor Socialism has that political rectitiude .
 
I think that you are right in saying that the virtue lies in the middle (thank you, St. Thomas Aquinas) with regards to large scale socialism and capitalism. It must be noted that true socialism, a system in which every individual chooses to live In common and work for the good of his and her brothers and sisters is actually biblical. This was the system used by the early disciples and apostles in the Acts of the Apostles and then replicated with the religious orders. I do not think it works, however, as an imposed governmental system
 
I think capitalism is useful up to a point. We seem to be reaching a point where it makes more sense to make goods that need to be replaced than you have goods that are quality. Where it can make sense not to pursue some technology as it would cut in to the revenue of existing companies.

I worry that our current form of capitalism doesn’t cope well with our technology level.
 
Do you mean like a capitalist system but where the haves have a responsibility to help the have nots?
 
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I agree about technology.
Apparently Dominos is looking into using drones to deliver their pizzas but I worry how this will affect the jobs of the “human” delivery staff.
 
In which way does biblical socialism differ from government enforced socialism?
 
Rozellelily said:
Do you mean like a capitalist system but where the haves have a responsibility to help the have nots?
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No , I don’t mean Capitalism at all .

To quote G.K.Chesterton , " Capitalism is really a very unpleasant word. It is also a very unpleasant thing . When I say “Capitalism,” I commonly mean something that may be stated thus: “That economic condition in which there is a class of capitalists roughly recognizable and relatively small, in whose possession so much of the capital is concentrated as to necessitate a very large majority of the citizens serving those capitalists for a wage.” "

That’s my last word on this thread for methinks it will decline into party politics which never create healthy , wholesome dialogue .
 
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I may give you the wrong answer but my view point would be that God was founding a church and he wanted to get rid of greed in the Christian and used this husband and wife as an example to all. the sin was not the money it was that they lied to the Holy Spirit and the Church about the price they got holding back half for themselves. Also it said that they fell down dead so maybe it was fear of what they had done? who knows but I think the Jews of the day had an unhealthy relationship with money and greed and God wanted that stopped.
Besides this we have a mountain of Saints telling us to renounce Money and follow Christ and Paul teaching it to be the root of all evil.
I think Christians can live a comfortable life and still deposit into the Church or any charity they see fit, but lavish lifestyles can lead to all kinds of sin and poverty stops a lot of sins so for a spiritual life poverty is best and having money to feed the poor is best too! so whether poor or rich it all depends on your serving others as Christ commands, so if you have spare money then try to feed the hungry if not offer up prayers for them. Hope that helps you but do look into what the church teaches as I would be afraid of telling you something that is not fact, it is only my thinking on it.
 
You can look into the Communist party, it is simple that men without morals can not be fit to run a system that makes them the distributors of wealth, they simply got rich and everyone on the outside got poorer, hence we need a Church governed by God himself to see the fair running of such a system. All governments are corrupt by nature as all governments (Not all but most) are run by humanists who live under the flag of the enlightenment movement that are blinded to Gods truth, hence they can never rule or govern fairly.
 
Socialism is evil and totally incompatible with Christianity. Here’s why this is true:
  • It spreads atheism
  • It believes it can create an earthly utopia
  • It eradicates private property
  • It steals money from people through taxation
  • It robs people of their freedom
  • It prevents the church from having a social role
There are different forms of socialism and some are worse than others. But they’re all evil because they attack liberty and force people to pay for things through taxation.

Capitalism isn’t ideal but there is no denying that it has lifted millions of people out of poverty while encouraging technological development. The only problem with capitalism is that there aren’t enough capitalists! We should all own our homes and run businesses. Property is freedom.
 
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Yeah, the increased mechanization of labour should be a good thing for people. But instead it harms us by taking away jobs. I feel we have things a bit backwards.
 
Saxum said:
Socialism is evil and totally incompatible with Christianity. Here’s why this is true:
  • It spreads atheism
  • It believes it can create an earthly utopia
  • It eradicates private property
  • It steals money from people through taxation
  • It robs people of their freedom
  • It prevents the church from having a social role
There are different forms of socialism and some are worse than others. But they’re all evil because they attack liberty and force people to pay for things through taxation.

Capitalism isn’t ideal but there is no denying that it has lifted millions of people out of poverty while encouraging technological development. The only problem with capitalism is that there aren’t enough capitalists! We should all own our homes and run businesses. Property is freedom.
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  1. socialism doesn’t need to be atheistic
  2. we should all aim to make the world better
  3. eh, materialism.
  4. capitalist societies also have tax, it pays for the stuff we all use
  5. this is a bigger discussion
  6. this also
 
Isn’t it those taxes though that are used for the poor to help them improve their lives?
Sure, a system where each wealthy person was left to themselves to help the “have nots” would be much more ideal then the Government tax system,but in reality when people are “left to their own devices” the wealthy would rather spend it on frivolous things like expensive champagne or even prostitutes in some cases then help the poor, so isn’t it better to tax them?
 
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Rozellelily said:
Isn’t it those taxes though that are used for the poor to help them improve their lives?
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We have a semi-socialist state in the UK. The government provides free healthcare for all and many forms of welfare. In theory it is a brilliant system; in practice, it is dreadful.

The National Health Service pays for millions of abortions and gender reassignment surgery. It hands out free contraceptives to teenagers without parental consent. When it comes to treatment, the waiting lists are long and many hospitals are dirty. I’ve used private care and the standards are far higher.

The welfare provisions given to the “poor” don’t help them. They encourage laziness and an entitlement mentality. I know generations of families who have never worked because the government gives them money. I know people who have purchased homes by fraudulently claiming welfare money. I support a safety net but I don’t support a culture of welfare dependence.
 
Tax also does public support things like road works, building upkeep, government institutions.
 
Saxum said:
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Rozellelily:
Isn’t it those taxes though that are used for the poor to help them improve their lives?
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We have a semi-socialist state in the UK. The government provides free healthcare for all and many forms of welfare. In theory it is a brilliant system; in practice, it is dreadful.

The National Health Service pays for millions of abortions and gender reassignment surgery. It hands out free contraceptives to teenagers without parental consent. When it comes to treatment, the waiting lists are long and many hospitals are dirty. I’ve used private care and the standards are far higher.

The welfare provisions given to the “poor” don’t help them. They encourage laziness and an entitlement mentality. I know generations of families who have never worked because the government gives them money. I know people who have purchased homes by fraudulently claiming welfare money. I support a safety net but I don’t support a culture of welfare dependence.
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When I was in London I caught a serious, serious case of bronchitis and pneumonia. Without the NHS I may well have died. Just like Aus’ health system it’s great. It’s also been instrumental in helping many of my friends in the UK who can’t afford private heath care.
 
Neither, as both are subject to abuse of human dignity - socialism by subjecting the individual to the state; capitalism by subjecting the individual to moneyed interests.

Rather, look into Distributism, a system consistent with Pope Leo XIII’s Rarum Novarum, and Pope Pius XI’s Quadragesimo anno, and which was championed by G. K. Chesterton.

So, once we here at CAF finally stop bickering, we can form the perfect governmental system on some island. Maybe Malta? East Timor?
 
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