What is my parish?

[FrDavid96]

Well, dh and I are starting to go to a church that isn’t in our boundary I’m sure. However, it’s the closest EF. The church that is probably our technical one has a crucifix where Jesus looks like an alien. I won’t step foot in a place that would depict Him as such.

psr,
You’re free to attend Mass wherever you choose, as is any Catholic. But at the same time you need to understand that there may come a point where your actual parish membership becomes very relevant (like Sacraments or one’s right to Christian burial). I simply want you to be prepared for that possibility and not be surprised if the issue comes-up.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Thomas, are you in the area with one or more student parishes along with the charismatic non-territorial parish and the parish designated by boundary? If so, I believe you can register at any of them. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong on this.:ehh:

Parishes are designated by boundries or populations. Generally anyone can attend any parish or even in most cases register at any parish. Also “Parish” has a certain meaning in canon Law and has a Pastor. A church may not be a parish church, such as a student assembly is generally not designated a “Parish”

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Well, dh and I are starting to go to a church that isn’t in our boundary I’m sure. However, it’s the closest EF. The church that is probably our technical one has a crucifix where Jesus looks like an alien. I won’t step foot in a place that would depict Him as such.

But does it have a tabernacle with the Real True Presence of Christ? What matters more?

 

[thomasf]

Thomas, are you in the area with one or more student parishes along with the charismatic non-territorial parish and the parish designated by boundary? If so, I believe you can register at any of them. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong on this.:ehh:

There is a student parish in the town that I live. And there are two parishes with boundaries that overlap. I chose the student parish. And really, there is a 4th parish that is only about 2 miles from my house, and a 5th that is about 4 miles away that is actually in another diocese. The student parish where I live is only a block away from one of the two territorial parishes that overlap. And I know of many people in our parish that come from miles away to attend, even in another diocese.

 

[cameron_lansing]

Although parishes are generally territorial, they may be personal, that is, organized by rite, language, nationality, etc. (c. 518). Sometimes pastoral care must be provided to a community in some other manner than a parish (c. 516 §2). A university might have a parish erected for the students or just have priests assigned to their pastoral care on a stable basis (c. 813). A bishop might even establish a “mixed parish” in which membership is partly territorial and partly based on something else. Remember though that not all churches are associated with parishes. Those are buildings that are sacred places.

Parishes consist in people: the pastors under the authority of the diocesan bishop and a stable community of the Christian faithful (c. 515§1). That is key.

Just to elaborate on Fr. David’s correct assessment. The implications of parish membership involve the licit place of baptism (c. 858-9), rights to where the rites of Christian funeral are conducted (c. 1177), where marriage normally takes place (c. 1115; c. 1118§1) and who has the faculty by law to validly assist at marriage (c. 1108 et al.).

The law does not envision “free floating” or unattached practice of the faith but participation in a true community of the Christian faithful who are associated with a pastor who will know the people and assist them with the spiritual goods of the Church. Parish jumping is frowned upon.

But it does permit, for the advantage of the faith, some variations, and most dioceses have protocols that guide the necessary permissions or delegations of faculty (in marriage) and consequently that provide for the licit and valid (in the case of marriage) administration of those spiritual goods.

I believe I am familiar with the situation that A2SciTeach references and ThomasF mentions, since “A2” is local shorthand for “Ann Arbor.” In that vicariate of the diocese, there are territorial parishes, 2 personal “university” parishes without territorial circumscription (for students, faculty, staff, alumni and their families) and another personal parish without territorial circumscription for those in the charismatic movement. The particular configuration in that area is in flux however due to the diocesan pastoral plan.

A Vietnamese student at U.M. who lives in Ypsilanti but takes classes at E.M.U. and who is a member of the charismatic community could be a member at the territorial parish, one of the personal parishes attached to the universities, the “charismatic” parish, or even another personal parish of the diocese located elsewhere. The head spins.

In practice though, people who are not associated with a university or the charismatic movement do register in those personal parishes, and the details are worked out without grave difficulty. The working protocol is to be generous for the spiritual advantage of the faithful but one needs to be attached somewhere.

 

[psr13]

But does it have a tabernacle with the Real True Presence of Christ? What matters more?

What matters to me is denigration to Jesus Christ.

 

[psr13]

psr,
You’re free to attend Mass wherever you choose, as is any Catholic. But at the same time you need to understand that there may come a point where your actual parish membership becomes very relevant (like Sacraments or one’s right to Christian burial). I simply want you to be prepared for that possibility and not be surprised if the issue comes-up.

Around here many people do not go to the church in which they reside. All you have to do to get the sacraments in other churches is to get a pastor’s permission, and it isn’t difficult here. Plus, dh and I aren’t even settled here and will be living in a different city once we do settle down.

 

[thomasf]

The law does not envision “free floating” or unattached practice of the faith but participation in a true community of the Christian faithful who are associated with a pastor who will know the people and assist them with the spiritual goods of the Church. Parish jumping is frowned upon.

Here’s what I don’t understand, then. If I am a member of the parish I attend, and a member of that parish community, what difference does it make? Our parish participates in community activity and is involved in the larger community as a whole. If I belong to that, do I not belong to that community and am I not a part of that parish?

I have never even met the priests that are pastors at the territorial parishes here. How could they assist me with the ‘spiritual goods of the Church’? I do know my parish priest and he is part of the community I belong to, and he does assist me in my spiritual life. When our marriage was blessed, he did it. If I went to one of the territorial pastors he wouldn’t know who I was. And I have no affiliation with EMU at all, and neither do many of the other resident members of the church.

IMO, if you are a member of a parish and take part in that community, and that priest assists you in your spiritual life, then you belong to that parish no matter which church is physcially closer to you.

 

[psr13]

Here’s what I don’t understand, then. If I am a member of the parish I attend, and a member of that parish community, what difference does it make? Our parish participates in community activity and is involved in the larger community as a whole. If I belong to that, do I not belong to that community and am I not a part of that parish?

I have never even met the priests that are pastors at the territorial parishes here. How could they assist me with the ‘spiritual goods of the Church’? I do know my parish priest and he is part of the community I belong to, and he does assist me in my spiritual life. When our marriage was blessed, he did it. If I went to one of the territorial pastors he wouldn’t know who I was. And I have no affiliation with EMU at all, and neither do many of the other resident members of the church.

IMO, if you are a member of a parish and take part in that community, and that priest assists you in your spiritual life, then you belong to that parish no matter which church is physcially closer to you.

I’m with you. Maybe it’s because I wasn’t raised Catholic, though. Plus, I don’t do the OF. I do the EF. I can’t get that in my territorial parish. It would be different if the churches here were known to be orthodox even in the least.

 

[The_Smiter]

We live in one diocese and attend Mass in another diocese. We are registered at the parish where we attend Mass. My wife and I were married at the parish where we attend Mass. Our granddaughter was recently baptised at the parish where we (and she) attends Mass (she also lives in the same diocese as us),

I am taking from this thread that we are all mixed up and in a world of trouble with respect to sacraments. Clarification would be appreciated.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

We live in one diocese and attend Mass in another diocese. We are registered at the parish where we attend Mass. My wife and I were married at the parish where we attend Mass. Our granddaughter was recently baptised at the parish where we (and she) attends Mass (she also lives in the same diocese as us),

I am taking from this thread that we are all mixed up and in a world of trouble with respect to sacraments. Clarification would be appreciated.

My understanding is that the pastor of the parish you live in or belong to, (not necessarly the same thing as the one you are registered in) is responsible for the care of your souls and the celebration of your Sacraments.

 

[The_Smiter]

My understanding is that the pastor of the parish you live in or belong to, (not necessarly the same thing as the one you are registered in) is responsible for the care of your souls and the celebration of your Sacraments.

So if I am to understand you clearly, we are in violation of Church procedure (correct term?), and need to go to the parish in which we geographically live and talk to the pastor about why his parish is unacceptable for worship. I am not trying to be argumentative. We want to do what is right and required of us by the Church. We are not trying to parish shop, but we do want to belong and be active where we feel called, not simply where we land by accident of property values. Or perhaps maybe we should up and move to a parish where we want to attend.

Truthfully, we want to be faithful and have confidence and faith in the pastor and bishop that we are provided with geographically. And I understand that we should offer up any qualms we have with such personages and simply respect the office they hold. But with all of the challenges that some dioces and parishes are facing, legal, liturgical, and otherwise, are we simply to accept thr troubled brought on us by others, especially with respect to raising young children in a particular parish community?

If what we need to do is walk into a pastor’s office and request permission to be elsewhere, then fine. But is it really appropriate to sit there and tell the priest the particulars of our reasoning for not wanting to be tied to a parish geographically? Perhaps I am making too much of this. But the postings on this thread, especially with regard to Sacraments, have me concerned.

 

[cameron_lansing]

Here’s what I don’t understand, then. If I am a member of the parish I attend, and a member of that parish community, what difference does it make? . . .
IMO, if you are a member of a parish and take part in that community, and that priest assists you in your spiritual life, then you belong to that parish no matter which church is physcially closer to you. . . .

Since you have attached yourself to one parish in practice, even though it may not be your proper territorial or personal parish, you do not fall into the category of “parish jumping” that I envisioned. Here I was thinking of a certain class of habitual spiritual nomads who are not attached anywhere in fact.

However there is a divergence between what people may consider to be their parishas and what the law would establish for them. Yet as I mentioned, questions of permissions and faculties are worked out in practice for the sake of the faithful. The law has that kind of flexibility. While they need to be attended to, this is generally done in the background.

But it does make a difference. A couple of examples.

1. If a priest who assists at a marriage (including a so called “convalidation”) is not the proper pastor of a party, he must obtain the faculty by delegation from the proper pastor or the local Ordinary or someone who can subdelegate the faculty for the validity of marriage. It’s just that this gets done in the background so that the parties remain unaware of that fact of delegation. If that matter is not attended to, an invalid marriage would be created.
2. If a person habitually attends services and / or even registers at some parish other than the one to which he or she belongs to according to law, he or she does not loose the right to have the rites of Christian funeral at that parish to which he or she belongs according to the law. The proper pastor still has obligations to provide for the pastoral care of those residing in the territory and has the faculties to do so.

 

[FrDavid96]

Here’s what I don’t understand, then. If I am a member of the parish I attend, and a member of that parish community, what difference does it make? Our parish participates in community activity and is involved in the larger community as a whole. If I belong to that, do I not belong to that community and am I not a part of that parish?

I have never even met the priests that are pastors at the territorial parishes here. How could they assist me with the ‘spiritual goods of the Church’? I do know my parish priest and he is part of the community I belong to, and he does assist me in my spiritual life. When our marriage was blessed, he did it. If I went to one of the territorial pastors he wouldn’t know who I was. And I have no affiliation with EMU at all, and neither do many of the other resident members of the church.

IMO, if you are a member of a parish and take part in that community, and that priest assists you in your spiritual life, then you belong to that parish no matter which church is physcially closer to you.

thomasf,
Here’s the “sticking point” if you don’t actually reside within the territory of that parish, you are, by definition, not a member of that parish.
On the other hand, if you are indeed eligible for membership in a non-territorial parish, and you are “registered” at that parish, then that is your parish in every sense; and the territorial parish is not your parish anymore than another one 100 miles away.

Would you clarify what you mean when you say that you attend a parish other than the territorial parish? What type of parish are you attending?

 

[FrDavid96]

We live in one diocese and attend Mass in another diocese. We are registered at the parish where we attend Mass. My wife and I were married at the parish where we attend Mass. Our granddaughter was recently baptised at the parish where we (and she) attends Mass (she also lives in the same diocese as us),

I am taking from this thread that we are all mixed up and in a world of trouble with respect to sacraments. Clarification would be appreciated.

There’s nothing wrong with attending Mass outside of your own parish if that’s where you feel comfortable.

It’s not a matter of trying to force people to attend in one place or another, but it’s a matter of saying that membership in a parish is determined by residence, not personal preference.

You are free to seek the Sacraments (even those which require jurisdiction) in another parish. But you also need to understand that when such permission is given, there is no obligation on the part of the bishop or priests to extend that permission. It may very well work-out just fine for you; in the past and present. But you don’t know what the future might bring.

I have experienced many examples of people attending a parish other than their own for extended periods of time–the most common example I can think of is people who move outside of the parish territory but still close enough to attend Mass regularly. When those people died, the pastor of the old parish would not allow them to be buried from that parish, but insisted that the family approach the proper pastor of the deceased. The family thought that they had a “right” to have the deceased buried in the old parish, but they were mistaken. This wasn’t done out of spite or legalism, but because in that area, so many people were seeking Sacraments and funerals at their “old” parishes that the situation got out-of-hand and a blanket policy was needed to correct it. Most parishes can allow the occasional wedding or funeral for someone who has moved away (and indeed most do so graciously), but in this area the problem was so great that some parishes were having as many as 3 funerals a day for non-parishioners.

Catholics simply need to understand what is meant by the word “parish” and likewise to understand that just because a situation of attending a neighboring parish might work-out fine right now, it might now always be that way for them in the future.

 

[zab]

By the way, if I don’t like the answer I get… I’m moving back to the old neighborhood. No better time for buyers in the housing market

 

[Monica37]

I have a question. I attend a parish and am registered there (for tuition reasons) because they offer the Tridentine Mass. None of the parishes in my immediate area offer the EF. My son will make his First Communion in the next 3 years. If I have never been to any of the parishes in my immediate area (there are a few), would I need to contact one of them and if so, how do I know which one? My son will take all his classes in the other parish and recieve First Holy Communion through them. He will also go to school there.

 

[cameron_lansing]

I have a question. I attend a parish and am registered there (for tuition reasons) because they offer the Tridentine Mass. None of the parishes in my immediate area offer the EF. My son will make his First Communion in the next 3 years. If I have never been to any of the parishes in my immediate area (there are a few), would I need to contact one of them and if so, how do I know which one? My son will take all his classes in the other parish and recieve First Holy Communion through them. He will also go to school there.

Simply contact the priest at the parish where you attend and discuss what, if anything, needs to be done with him. He will have better knowledge of any provisions that the diocesan bishop has made in this situation.

 

[Chatter163]

I don’t know about that. Our parish has some unusual boundaries. Some areas that our parish is responsible for extend to a town that is closer to a neighboring parish.

Catholic parishes are like public schools in that they have defined geographic boundaries. No neighborhood is located within two different parishes.

Non-territorial parishes, which have already been mentioned here, are a somewhat different matter.

 

[eduardo]

Yow!

I emailed the Archdiocese and didn’t get an answer.

I called church #1 to ask about boundaries. The secretary didn’t know and the Father sounded a tad irritated by the question. I explained why I wanted to know, he said I could register where I wanted. His ire/frustration was puzzling.

I called church #2. The secretary said they let people register wherever they like. She didn’t think they had actual boundaries.

I called church #3. The secretary said that they routinely register people from as far away as 20 miles. Boundaries were not a concern she thought I should have.

I called the Archdiocese and left a message.