What is my parish?

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Eduardo, that picture is BREATHTAKING!👍

What church is that? is it in Detroit?

I believe I’ve seen it, but that image is gorgeous 😃
 
FrDavid96 said:
thomasf,
Here’s the “sticking point” if you don’t actually reside within the territory of that parish, you are, by definition, not a member of that parish.
On the other hand, if you are indeed eligible for membership in a non-territorial parish, and you are “registered” at that parish, then that is your parish in every sense; and the territorial parish is not your parish anymore than another one 100 miles away.

Would you clarify what you mean when you say that you attend a parish other than the territorial parish? What type of parish are you attending?
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I attend the student parish at the local univeristy, which is a block west of the territorial parish that I suppose I’m supposed to belong to. As someone posted earlier, there are actuall 3 local parishes that have no territory in my area, two student parishes and a charismatic personal parish.

I guess I can understand the argument from the point of view that a catholic shouldn’t be attending a parish in an area that’s way out of your local parish’s territory. I can understand the idea that going two towns over to attend church isn’t proper when you have a parish that is local to you and that pastor is charged with your care.

But I do believe in this day and age, when there are so many abuses and un-orthodoxy occurring within the church, that a catholic should also have the right to chose a parish that is outside their territory if their territorial parish isn’t following orthodoxy, or teaching error, or creating scandal, or creating an atmosphere that inhibits spiritual growth.

The church we chose when we came back is very much involved with the community that I live in, and often works with the territorial parish on related community projects. I chose the parish i did because it provided more opportunities for outreach and community work and christian service, in the community that I live in. And it’s run as a mission church to the students at the university. We have become members of the parish, involved in the parish community and local community, and I consider my priest and pastor to be the person charged with my spiritual growth and perfectly capable of administering the sacraments to us, not the pastor at the church a block away that I’ve never met and has no idea who we are. And we’ve never been told or advised of anything to the contrary.
 
eduardo said:
Yow!

I emailed the Archdiocese and didn’t get an answer.

I called church #1 to ask about boundaries. The secretary didn’t know and the Father sounded a tad irritated by the question. I explained why I wanted to know, he said I could register where I wanted. His ire/frustration was puzzling.

I called church #2. The secretary said they let people register wherever they like. She didn’t think they had actual boundaries.

I called church #3. The secretary said that they routinely register people from as far away as 20 miles. Boundaries were not a concern she thought I should have.

I called the Archdiocese and left a message.
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Check your diocese website. The lansing diocese has a page that explains the boundaries of each parish.
 
eduardo said:
I emailed the Archdiocese and didn’t get an answer.

I called church #1 to ask about boundaries. The secretary didn’t know and the Father sounded a tad irritated by the question. I explained why I wanted to know, he said I could register where I wanted. His ire/frustration was puzzling.
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Eduardo, I, too, am in the Archdiocese of Detroit.

This is not a unique occurence.

You are dealing with PEOPLE.:o

There are maps of where each church’s parish boundaries lie. However, in Detroit, people tend to ignore that when they choose to go to mass. The maps have been used, IMO, mostly to determine where a person is to go when they need help or when someone that hasn’t been attending mass needs to receive a sacrament; that is just to determine which priest gets the job.😦

Keep trying the churches where you you think you are supposed to be going. In the mean time, keep going to mass (as I’m sure you’re doing)
 
Apryl,

That is St. Alphonsus in Dearborn, just two blocks outside of Detroit.

You made me smile with your gentle exhortation to continue to go to church. No fear there. When it is all said and done, I get to go twice this week! It’s like getting your longevity check in the middle of June – two paydays? Sign me up, baby.

As I struggled with returning (over the last few years) I knew that the church, whatever else it was, was also the worlds oldest bureaucracy. I work in bureaucracy. I know bureaucracy. Neither the Church’s inherent inefficiency, nor its staffing at any moment can serve to diminish it’s character in my sight.

🙂
 
FrDavid96 said:
psr,
You’re free to attend Mass wherever you choose, as is any Catholic. But at the same time you need to understand that there may come a point where your actual parish membership becomes very relevant (like Sacraments or one’s right to Christian burial). I simply want you to be prepared for that possibility and not be surprised if the issue comes-up.
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Interesting. As a revert, I registered at another parish that is not the closest one to my house. When I was confirmed, I was listed under that parish.
 
thomasf said:
I attend the student parish at the local univeristy, which is a block west of the territorial parish that I suppose I’m supposed to belong to. As someone posted earlier, there are actuall 3 local parishes that have no territory in my area, two student parishes and a charismatic personal parish.

I guess I can understand the argument from the point of view that a catholic shouldn’t be attending a parish in an area that’s way out of your local parish’s territory. I can understand the idea that going two towns over to attend church isn’t proper when you have a parish that is local to you and that pastor is charged with your care.

But I do believe in this day and age, when there are so many abuses and un-orthodoxy occurring within the church, that a catholic should also have the right to chose a parish that is outside their territory if their territorial parish isn’t following orthodoxy, or teaching error, or creating scandal, or creating an atmosphere that inhibits spiritual growth.

The church we chose when we came back is very much involved with the community that I live in, and often works with the territorial parish on related community projects. I chose the parish i did because it provided more opportunities for outreach and community work and christian service, in the community that I live in. And it’s run as a mission church to the students at the university. We have become members of the parish, involved in the parish community and local community, and I consider my priest and pastor to be the person charged with my spiritual growth and perfectly capable of administering the sacraments to us, not the pastor at the church a block away that I’ve never met and has no idea who we are. And we’ve never been told or advised of anything to the contrary.
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thomasf,

Please bear with me as I repeat once again that you are free to attend Mass at any Catholic parish. I gather from your post that you are concerned that somehow the Church is saying that you can’t do this–that’s not at all the case.

There’s nothing wrong with attending another parish. But Catholics need to understand that attending and/or registering on the one hand is not the same thing as membership on the other hand. I’m getting the impression here that many posters simply aren’t seeing that important and essential distinction.

Registering at a parish does not make you a member of that parish.

There are times when proper jurisdiction becomes very important. These are rare, yet they are often the most significant moments in a person’t faith life–such as weddings, baptisms, first Communion, funerals, etc.

If you live within the territory of “that” parish then you are in fact a member of that parish. This isn’t a matter of opinion, it’s a fact of law. The fact that you have never even been to the church has no bearing on whether or not you are a parishioner there–again, this isn’t opinion it’s canon law. Your pastor is not the priest of the place where you attend Mass, but your pastor is the one appointed by the bishop to be the pastor of the place where you reside.

I’m not trying to argue any points with you. Please understand that my purpose for writing these posts is merely that you (and other readers) understand the definition of parish membership, and that you are not caught unawares should some issue of jurisdiction persent itself in the future. I’m not trying to discourage you from attending Mass where you feel comfortable–please don’t think that I am.

Also understand that most “student parishes” are not in fact parishes. They might be a form of outreach for the local parish, or they might be a form of campus ministry, but for the most part these are not parishes.

From your post, I gather that the place where you attend Mass is a student community that is an outreach of the local parish. If I understand that correctly, then you are actually attending the local parish even though you might never have thought about it in those terms.
 
Sheeniac said:
Interesting. As a revert, I registered at another parish that is not the closest one to my house. When I was confirmed, I was listed under that parish.
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But keep in mind that registration is irrelevant when it comes to actual membership in a parish. Registering there does not make you a parishioner.
 
Sheeniac said:
Interesting. As a revert, I registered at another parish that is not the closest one to my house. When I was confirmed, I was listed under that parish.
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A lot of stuff goes on in the background, with this stuff. The parish secretary would have made a note of your address when you signed up for Confirmation classes, and she would have notified both your pastor and the priest of the parish where you were Confirmed, and they would have sorted out any necessary paperwork, without involving you at all.
 
Per canon law, the only overlapping territorial jurisdictions are those of different sui iuris churches. Counting the Roman, there are currently 23. (Keep praying for unity… there are several likely candidates for #24…)

Non-territorial parishes are special cases; you have to meet the territorial restrictions (as they are limited), the membership restrictions (often ethnic or linguistic), and register there. For example, Our Lady of Guadalupe in Anchorage has a special jurisdiction: hispanic, latino, and spanish speaking families of Anchorage. I could register there, but I would not be a parishioner, even if I registered as a member of the parish, as I don’t meet any of the categories. (I live in a different township, I’m not hispanic, nor latino, and my spanish barely qualifies as trivial.) But I can attend there.

Parishes of other Catholic Churches are special cases; in some, formal agreements allow cross-church enrollment as a parishioner, but without those agreements, one is still bound to the territorial parish’s pastor of one’s own church for canonical purposes.

Now, for Latin Rite (Roman) Catholics, this is unlikely to be an issue unless one moves to the middle east. (Move to Ethiopia, and you’ll be under the Ethiopian Church’s pastor, since there is no territorial latin pastor. Likewise, Ethiopian Catholics who come to the US fall within the Latin parish except in rare cases.)
 
FrDavid96 said:
thomasf,
From your post, I gather that the place where you attend Mass is a student community that is an outreach of the local parish. If I understand that correctly, then you are actually attending the local parish even though you might never have thought about it in those terms.
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It’s called Holy Trinity Student Parish. According to the diocese website it’s described this way: (Personal Parish - no geographical boundaries - Students, Faculty, Staff, Alumni of Eastern Michigan University and their families)

It has seperate priests and is run by the PIME ministers from the PIME mission in Detroit. We have our own programs and chapel. We occassionally team up with the territorial parish on the next block over. But it’s not an ‘outreach’ of that parish.

So if it’s a personal parish with no boundaries or territory, how can anyone be a member of that parish? Wouldn’t EVERYONE who attends that parish be members of their territorial parish? Therefore the parish would have no membership nor parishoners.

And here’s the next question. As an alumni of the university in the neighboring town where they too have a student parish, I could join there as well. But again I wouldn’t be a member of that parish. Nor would they have any membership either because their members would all be subject to their territorial parish. What about the local charismatic parish? Do they have no membership/parishoners? If so, what’s the point in having personal parishes? They can never have membership or parishoners. And what do you do in Eduardo’s case when even the pastor of the local parish says you’re a member of whatever parish you attend?
 
thomasf said:
It’s called Holy Trinity Student Parish. According to the diocese website it’s described this way: (Personal Parish - no geographical boundaries - Students, Faculty, Staff, Alumni of Eastern Michigan University and their families)

It has seperate priests and is run by the PIME ministers from the PIME mission in Detroit. We have our own programs and chapel. We occassionally team up with the territorial parish on the next block over. But it’s not an ‘outreach’ of that parish.

So if it’s a personal parish with no boundaries or territory, how can anyone be a member of that parish? Wouldn’t EVERYONE who attends that parish be members of their territorial parish? Therefore the parish would have no membership nor parishoners.

And here’s the next question. As an alumni of the university in the neighboring town where they too have a student parish, I could join there as well. But again I wouldn’t be a member of that parish. Nor would they have any membership either because their members would all be subject to their territorial parish. What about the local charismatic parish? Do they have no membership/parishoners? If so, what’s the point in having personal parishes? They can never have membership or parishoners. And what do you do in Eduardo’s case when even the pastor of the local parish says you’re a member of whatever parish you attend?
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Thanks for clarifying.

Here’s how it works. Since you are “eligible” to be a member of that non-territorial parish because you are a part of the group of faithful which the local bishop has designated that parish to serve, you are a member of that parish if you present yourself to the pastor and declare your intention to join it–in this case registration would be the way that is accomplished (remember in this case).

A territorial parish includes all of the Catholics within that territory UNLESS they are eligible for membership in a non-territorial one. Non-territorial parishes are relatively rare and an outright parish on a college campus is even more rare, but based on what you’ve posted it is indeed the case.

In theory, yes, you could join the non-territorial parish for the neighboring university since you also come under the bishop’s designation of persons eligible for that one.

I don’t know if this is addressed anywhere in canon law, but my instincts are telling me that you can only be an official parishioner of one parish, so you would have to choose one of the several parishes of which you are eligible.

For your last question in Eduardo’s case it’s a matter of finding out just which parish territory he resides. Somewhere, somehow, somewhen, the bishop established parish boundaries. The usual way to learn what constitutes a parish territory is simply to ask the pastor first, and then to inquire of the diocese.
 
What are the rules regarding registration at a particular parish? I am evidently under the jurisdiction of the parish in which I live (a thought that saddens me to some extent given the parish), but I’m not registered there. The parish I attend has a little blurb on the front of the bulletin stating that “It is the duty of every Catholic to be registered at a parish.” Is this true or am I ok to be an “off the books” Catholic?

Chris
 
I am not registered at my geogaphic parish. Their handling of the Holy Sacrifice has always troubled me (and my parents) even as a young child. Even though I do not like the music at my parish, their handling of the Mass is much better than in the parish that is two minutes away from me.

What I am trying to say is that you are not bound to register at your neighborhood parish. Find a parish that treats the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with the solemnity, dignity and majesty that it deserves and where the rubrics and norms are followed. When you find it, latch on to it. Then, you will know that you are home.
 
rkrispies said:
What are the rules regarding registration at a particular parish? I am evidently under the jurisdiction of the parish in which I live (a thought that saddens me to some extent given the parish), but I’m not registered there. The parish I attend has a little blurb on the front of the bulletin stating that “It is the duty of every Catholic to be registered at a parish.” Is this true or am I ok to be an “off the books” Catholic?

Chris
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It is a precept of the Church to contribute to the support of your parish. I think to do this, you should join a parish. This lets the diocese know how active it is- if it is growing or shrinking, about how much money each person donates to it (which is going to be a miscalculation if it has a bunch of people who regularly go but are not registered). Also, when you register at a parish, the pastor at that parish becomes your pastor- and it becomes your parish for canonical matters (marriage, dispensations that only your pastor can give you, etc.) You don’t have to register at the one closest to you- find one that suits your needs and the needs of your family and register there.
 
If something happens to you or one of your family members, the pastor of the parish you currently attend and like is not obligated to provide the funeral Mass, if you’re not registered there and don’t live within its geographical bounds.

When you register, you’ll receive the collection envelopes with your name and your parishioner number pre-printed on them. The parish will send you a report of your donations every year for your taxes.

Is there a reason you don’t want to register in the parish you attend?
 
It is interesting that I am registered, attend and receive the Sacraments at the parish that is closest to my home, even though it is in a different city. Yet my phone exchange is the same as the one in the parish I attend. I have no idea where the parish boundry is. I have not asked, nor do I intend to. Both my priest and the priest at the “local” Church know where I go, register and recieve the Sacraments. I remember this from Fr. Vincent Serpa.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=106296&highlight=parish

I know this is talking about registering, but since I have no need of a Church other than the one I attend, I see the issue of what parish I am in geographically as moot.
 
The information provided by Father David and others on this thread is NOT taught to the run-of-the-mill Catholic, ever. How would we even know? I only learned what an “official” parish / parishioner is when reading this forum two or three years ago (and I left my “geographical” parish quite some time ago, with no intention of ever returning or seeking sacramental or other help from it). I think this rule is taken more seriously in some dioceses than in others. At the parish I attend, we’re called parishioners once we register, no matter where we live.

At the risk of sounding argumentative or rebellious, I have to say this practice doesn’t always seem relevant or practical in a metropolitan area with a highly-transient population. High rent increases, changing housing needs for particular families, and other factors, propel people to move around, sometimes on a yearly basis. Some of my fellow parishioners have been members of this parish for decades, since their childhood, yet have moved multiple times. Some drive twenty miles or more to attend Mass every week. Thank God for them and their services to the parish. They help to provide stability in the parish, and they maintain stability for themselves and their family members when other aspects of their lives may not be so stable. The parish does not deny the sacraments or funeral services to those of us who are registered and who live outside the territorial boundaries. When I die, I want people who know me to be there praying for me, and praying with my relatives who attend. Practically and emotionally, I “belong” to my fellow parishioners I worship with, serve, and am served by.

Some people may chastise people who are more transient for not registering in or getting involved in their geographical parishes. This might be a valid complaint. However, on a practical basis, those of us who are experienced in various ministries have to abide by the “people politics” in each new parish, only being allowed to share our talents gradually, until we “prove” ourselves to the powers-that-be. That’s reality.

I can understand the need for geographical boundaries when Catholics fail to register – some parish needs to “claim” them when sacraments and funeral rites are needed.
 
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