What is my parish?

[Phemie]

If something happens to you or one of your family members, the pastor of the parish you currently attend and like is not obligated to provide the funeral Mass, if you’re not registered there and don’t live within its geographical bounds.

When you register, you’ll receive the collection envelopes with your name and your parishioner number pre-printed on them. The parish will send you a report of your donations every year for your taxes.

Is there a reason you don’t want to register in the parish you attend?

The collection envelope thing varies by parish. We don’t issue envelopes to anyone who doesn’t request them – waste of money & paper to do so. We have about 450 families on our books of which about 90 use envelopes. I know full well that some families who don’t use envelopes drop in $20 each week, they’re just not interested in a tax receipt for what they give to the Church. Even some who use envelopes faithfully don’t bother to pick up their receipts.

 

[Phemie]

When our kids were growing up DH was in the military and as such we were the responsibility of the Military Ordinariate & the military parish regardless of where we physically resided (on or off Base). In one posting our children attended an ethnic school and we belonged to a ‘Francophone Catholic Community’. People came from as far as 40 miles away to belong to our Community. I drove through at least 4 geographic parishes to get to Mass.

We weren’t a parish; while the diocese assigned us to a priest, his primary responsibility was the chaplaincy of the regional hospital so we often had to look for another French speaking priest to celebrate Mass if Fr. X was going to be away or if his chaplaincy took precedence. In a parish, the priest would have been responsible to find someone to replace him but it fell to us to do so for our community.

We had no church, our liturgies were in the auditorium of the school which our children attended. Our sacraments were registered at the English parish within whose boundaries the school was located.

During another posting, our children attended a French school 6 communities over. They prepared for their sacraments there and received them at the parish in which the school was located.

 

[Paul1961]

Why register?

Because it is quite possible that when you call for a marriage, baptism, funeral etc, they won’t even return your calls.

 

[dconklin]

As a staff member of a parish, registrations are very important. Kids cannot come to faith formation without registration and if you are ever asked to be a Godparent or confirmation sponsor, your parish/pastor has to give the sacramental church a notice of your “worthiness”.

From the business side, accounting and diocesan dealings work best with accurate registration numbers. Also, when it is time to build a new church or parish hall we can ask you for money via the mail. A our closest neighboring parish is finishing work on a new church and we will be beginning a capital campaign most likely within a year at our parish. I am sure a bunch of registrations will move down to that church.

 

[rkrispies]

Thanks all. Yes, there is a reason I don’t attend or want to register at the parish closest to me. They are not exactly the most reverent parish and after one liturgy, I figuratively shook the dust from my feet and bid them goodbye. I only have about a year left before I am done with school, then I’m off to wherever next, so it seems a bit odd to register now and then split a few months later, with no kids and no wedding to get done. Funeral would probably be back home at my parents’ church, though I don’t know.

I can understand the need to register for children’s education and formation, as well as baptism. Not really a big deal to me, since I don’t have any yet. I always give a donation regardless of the parish I am attending at on any given weekend, such as when I am home with the parents or visiting the in-laws. I don’t take the tax break from it though. This was more of a “am I breaking some sort of Catholic law?” sort of question.

Thanks to all who replied.
Chris

 

[FrDavid96]

The information provided by Father David and others on this thread is NOT taught to the run-of-the-mill Catholic, ever. How would we even know? I only learned what an “official” parish / parishioner is when reading this forum two or three years ago (and I left my “geographical” parish quite some time ago, with no intention of ever returning or seeking sacramental or other help from it). I think this rule is taken more seriously in some dioceses than in others. At the parish I attend, we’re called parishioners once we register, no matter where we live.

At the risk of sounding argumentative or rebellious, I have to say this practice doesn’t always seem relevant or practical in a metropolitan area with a highly-transient population. High rent increases, changing housing needs for particular families, and other factors, propel people to move around, sometimes on a yearly basis. Some of my fellow parishioners have been members of this parish for decades, since their childhood, yet have moved multiple times. Some drive twenty miles or more to attend Mass every week. Thank God for them and their services to the parish. They help to provide stability in the parish, and they maintain stability for themselves and their family members when other aspects of their lives may not be so stable. The parish does not deny the sacraments or funeral services to those of us who are registered and who live outside the territorial boundaries. When I die, I want people who know me to be there praying for me, and praying with my relatives who attend. Practically and emotionally, I “belong” to my fellow parishioners I worship with, serve, and am served by.

Some people may chastise people who are more transient for not registering in or getting involved in their geographical parishes. This might be a valid complaint. However, on a practical basis, those of us who are experienced in various ministries have to abide by the “people politics” in each new parish, only being allowed to share our talents gradually, until we “prove” ourselves to the powers-that-be. That’s reality.

I can understand the need for geographical boundaries when Catholics fail to register – some parish needs to “claim” them when sacraments and funeral rites are needed.

quiet52,

I do understand what you’re saying. And yes, for most people most of the time, parish boundaries don’t seem to have much relevance in their lives–they are either attending the proper parish simply by default, or if a neighboring one its “no big deal” when it comes to the Sacraments to get proper permissions.

But please understand what I’ve been trying to say in a few of these posts: it might not matter now, but it may make a huge difference in the future. As I said in another post, I recall a situation where parish boundaries were all but ignored for quite some time. Everything was fine. No one knew about boundaries, and no one cared. When people wanted to get married, then went to their parish of choice and the priest sorted-out the paperwork with no one noticing. When people died, their families brought them to the parish of choice and they buried from there. Then one day, suddenly, things changed. The local pastors realized that they needed to enforce their parish boundaries because some of them were being overwhelmed with weddings and funerals of people who were not parishioners. Needless to say, many were outraged. They had been doing it for years, and no one had a problem with it in the past; but the past was just that. No one ever anticipated that such a thing would happen until it actually did happen.

That’s why I seem to be so concerned here about readers understanding what is meant by parish boundaries. After all, someone who has no thoughts about it at all wouldn’t even be reading this thread, so the very fact that someone is reading it means that the reader has either some interest or some need to understand.

Many of the posters here are saying “we do it this way and it’s just fine.” OK. I don’t have any objection to that; I wish them nothing but the best. But at the same time, the readers do need to understand that someday, and that day might never come, they may suddenly find themselves in a situation not exactly to their liking, and find that those boundaries which had been ignored for years are suddenly being enforced. This isn’t imagination at work–it’s history. It’s happening in many traditionally Catholic locales all across the US.

 

[jmcrae]

Many of the posters here are saying “we do it this way and it’s just fine.” OK. I don’t have any objection to that; I wish them nothing but the best. But at the same time, the readers do need to understand that someday, and that day might never come, they may suddenly find themselves in a situation not exactly to their liking, and find that those boundaries which had been ignored for years are suddenly being enforced. This isn’t imagination at work–it’s history. It’s happening in many traditionally Catholic locales all across the US.

I can actually see that happening in my own territorial parish. Our church building is very beautiful. It was designed by Maxwell Bates’ father in the late 1800s, and it’s one of the most beautiful little churches in the whole world, so everyone wants to have their wedding there, and be buried there.

Now, at present, our parish priest is excluding only those people who don’t go to Mass at all on a regular basis, and those who don’t normally attend Mass at our parish.

But, I can certainly see the day coming, when he or his successor will say, “Only those parishioners who actually live in our parish may be married and buried here, because our schedule is simply too full, otherwise.” Especially if the Bishop requests it. As it is, during wedding season, he does four or five weddings every Saturday - this in addition to Our Lady’s Mass in the morning, and the anticipated Sunday Mass in the evening, and Confessions for an hour - and during the week, he is often running funerals back to back, as well - even with restricting it only to those who actually attend(ed) Mass at our parish.

Another consideration - and I know most people when they think of life after death, they think of Heaven, but there is also another life after death, here on earth, and that is your descendants - your faith legacy - and some of those children will want to learn about your life, especially your faith life. Staying within your parish boundaries makes it easy for your faith legacy to stay alive, because it’s easy for your descendants to find you. If you live in one place, and go to Mass fifty miles away, your descendants will have no idea where to start looking for you, and any example you may have set for them with regard to your faith, will be lost in the bottom of a disused filiing cabinet, fifty miles away from where they are trying to find you at.

Indeed, they may well say, “Well, the family lore is that he/she was a faithful Catholic, but his/her parish never heard of him/her. I guess back in those days, ‘faithful Catholic’ had a much different meaning.”

 

[Sheeniac]

To add a slight twist to this… I found out a few weeks ago that my diocese (Joliet) has added a priest (FSSP) to hold TLM masses. He is saying Mass at 2 different churches through the week.

The web page mentioned that while we can register and become a member of that “faith community”, our parishes would not change. (Makes more sense after reading this thread!)

There are instructions given about financial support (the community versus own own respective parishes). I’m an EMHC at my non-geographical but registered parish, so I will be attending both depending on whether I’m scheduled for a Sunday.

I don’t know how to say this w/out sounding snarky, but…

“My” parish (the one in which I am registered) has no problems taking my above average donation, nor my time nor talents, so I would hope that they will continue to “feed me” in my time of need. (FWIW, I consider it both a duty and an honor to support my Church, both at the parish level, diocese level, etc.)

Indeed, I am planning on getting married in 2010, so this is somewhat more than just an academic topic for me.

Many thanks to FrDavid96 and all of the great posters on this thread.

 

[pnewton]

But please understand what I’ve been trying to say in a few of these posts: it might not matter now, but it may make a huge difference in the future.

It may be, and it has surely been more important in the past. We should remember this and not get our undergarments tied in a knot as such directives come down, although I do not think things will change, except on a parish by parish basis.

 

[MarionC]

This reminds me of a term that a priest used in regard to my husband and me. He called us “vagabond catholics.”

When my husband (fiance at the time) went to our childhood parish to register for pre-cana and set the wedding date, the priest asked us what Mass we regularly attended. We explained that we had moved out of the parish (a few miles). Also explained that my fiance was a newly sworn in member of the NYPD - his hours were brutal. It was important for us to attend Mass together, but because of his hours, difficult to attend the same Mass or even the same church every week. The bottom line is that we did make it a priority.

To this day, I am not sure if the priest was joking with us or really took a dim view of our bouncing around. It was 25 years ago and I don’t think any priest would use that term now. Isn’t the most important thing that you attend Mass, and of course support that parish with your time, talent and treasure?

 

[tee_eff_em]

This reminds me of a term that a priest used in regard to my husband and me. He called us “vagabond catholics.”

When my husband (fiance at the time) went to our childhood parish to register for pre-cana and set the wedding date, the priest asked us what Mass we regularly attended. We explained that we had moved out of the parish (a few miles). Also explained that my fiance was a newly sworn in member of the NYPD - his hours were brutal. It was important for us to attend Mass together, but because of his hours, difficult to attend the same Mass or even the same church every week. The bottom line is that we did make it a priority.

To this day, I am not sure if the priest was joking with us or really took a dim view of our bouncing around. It was 25 years ago and I don’t think any priest would use that term now. Isn’t the most important thing that you attend Mass, and of course support that parish with your time, talent and treasure?

I would guess your priest was joking, but perhaps with an allusion to the serious.

Canon Law does classify some persons as *vagus *in Latin – In English “wanderer” or “transient” (cognate, as your priest said: vagabond).

Can. 100 A person is said to be: a resident (incola) in the place where the person has a domicile; a temporary resident (advena) in the place where the person has a quasi-domicile; a traveler (peregrinus) if the person is outside the place of a domicile or quasi-domicile which is still retained; a transient (vagus) if the person does not have a domicile or quasi-domicile anywhere.

And the word *is *used in regard to the celebration of marriage:

Can. 1115 Marriages are to be celebrated in a parish where either of the contracting parties has a domicile, quasidomicile, or month long residence or, if it concerns

transients vagis]

, in the parish where they actually reside. With the permission of the proper ordinary or proper pastor, marriages can be celebrated elsewhere.

:twocents:
tee

 

[twf]

What if I reside in one city during the week and another during the weekend? What territorial parish would I belong to? Is it a matter of which one I consider home? That seems rather subjective for a matter of law. Perhaps my mailing address? What if I receive some mail at one and some mail at the other?

 

[jmcrae]

What if I reside in one city during the week and another during the weekend? What territorial parish would I belong to? Is it a matter of which one I consider home? That seems rather subjective for a matter of law. Perhaps my mailing address? What if I receive some mail at one and some mail at the other?

With regard to homeless people who sleep in a different place every night, I have read where the Cathedral is considered their “home parish,” and I have also read that. when travelling, you are under the jurisdiction of the Bishop of the place where you slept last night - so, if I am travelling to Winnipeg (assuming I didn’t stay overnight anywhere else on the way there), I am under the law of Calgary on the day that I arrive in Winnipeg, but the next day, after sleeping for one night in Winnipeg, I am under the law of Winnipeg. Similarly, when I return home, I am under the law of Winnipeg on the day that I return to Calgary, but the next day, after sleeping for one night in Calgary, I am back under the law of Calgary.

 

[FrDavid96]

It may be, and it has surely been more important in the past. We should remember this and not get our undergarments tied in a knot as such directives come down, although I do not think things will change, except on a parish by parish basis.

In the past it was the other way around–most people attended their local territorial parish or their ethnic parish. With so much variation in spirituality and direction from one parish to another today, coupled with our much more mobile society, and our expectation that everything be customized, it is more likely that we see Catholics attending or registering at other-than their proper parishes. (And lest anyone misunderstand, those comments are simply an expression of reality, and not aimed at the motivation of anyone who attends another parish).

I’m not anticipating anything like a directive from the Holy See enforcing parish boundaries, but on the other hand, with so many parishes combining and closing across the US, and the acute priest shortage, it’s not at all difficult to imagine a scenario where one bishop retires and the new bishop decides to start enforcing the boundaries “all of a sudden”; not as an issue of “legalism” but a practical necessity.

Every time a neighboring parish is closed, the open parish receives an influx of members, and might very suddenly find themselves in a position of having no choice but to enforce the boundaries. The possibilities for “why this might happen” go on and on.

 

[tee_eff_em]

What if I reside in one city during the week and another during the weekend? What territorial parish would I belong to? Is it a matter of which one I consider home? That seems rather subjective for a matter of law. Perhaps my mailing address? What if I receive some mail at one and some mail at the other?

I Am Not A Canon Lawyer.
Reading Can. 100, [post=4639049]above[/post], together with Can. 102 does not make things clear to me.

Can. 102 §1. Domicile is acquired by that residence within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese, which either is joined with the intention of remaining there permanently unless called away or has been protracted for five complete years.

§2. Quasi-domicile is acquired by residence within the territory of a certain parish or at least of a diocese, which either is joined with the intention of remaining there for at least three months unless called away or has in fact been protracted for three months.

§3. A domicile or quasi-domicile within the territory of a parish is called parochial; within the territory of a diocese, even though not within a parish, diocesan.

If you consider yourself “resident” at one or the other place, subjective as that is, perhaps that is your domicile? Perhaps, your hypothetical instances of residence being each for less than a period of three months, you have no domicile and are perpetually transient (vagus)?

With regard to homeless people who sleep in a different place every night, I have read where the Cathedral is considered their “home parish,”

Could be. Certainly if they sleep in the same diocese every night, they are under the proper jurisdiction of the diocesan bishop (and if they habitually sleep in the same parish, they have a proper pastor as well)?

Can. 107 §2. The proper pastor or ordinary of a transient is the pastor or local ordinary where the transient is actually residing.

I am not sure the law further defines the term *reside *and its forms?

But to reiterate: I Am Not A Canon Lawyer.

tee

 

[FrDavid96]

I Am Not A Canon Lawyer.
Reading Can. 100, [post=4639049]above[/post], together with Can. 102 does not make things clear to me.

If you consider yourself “resident” at one or the other place, subjective as that is, perhaps that is your domicile? Perhaps, your hypothetical instances of residence being each for less than a period of three months, you have no domicile and are perpetually transient (vagus)?



Could be. Certainly if they sleep in the same diocese every night, they are under the proper jurisdiction of the diocesan bishop (and if they habitually sleep in the same parish, they have a proper pastor as well)?

I am not sure the law further defines the term *reside *and its forms?

But to reiterate: I Am Not A Canon Lawyer.

tee

Let’s try to make it a little more concrete:
Domicile is a permanent residence. Where you actually live, vote, the address on your drivers license, your income tax forms, etc. etc. No matter how often one might move, if you consider that your permanent residence at the moment, then that’s your domicile. If you have already lived there for 5 years or more (regardless of future intentions) it is your domicile no matter what–even if it’s a motel room. For people who move around a lot, this can be pretty subjective, but essentially the question to ask is “is this what I consider my actual residence?” If you buy a house, or sign a 12 month lease, it’s your domicile. On the other hand if you’re living in a temporary situation like a motel then the “permanence” isn’t there.

Quasi-domicile is a place where you live for 3 months or more, but you don’t necessarily consider that “permanent”. Some examles might be college students because they live in a place for more than 3 months, but they do not consider that a permanent residence, but a temporary situation–they have every intention of leaving in the spring (even if they’re coming back in the fall). Migrant workers who live in a place for at least 3 months have a quasi-domicile in that place.

A traveler is just that–someone who indeed has a home somewhere, but is “just visiting”

A transient is someone who is “homeless” and has no place to return (either by intention or misfortune)–the “residence” is the place where the person usually sleeps or in the short-term where that person is sleeping that night. If a homeless person is sleeping at the same mission (for example) for 3 months or more though that becomes a quasi-residence. A transient who is sleeping in a certain place that night would have the local pastor as his proper pastor, but if he’s just passing through (say spending only an hour here before moving on) then that would not apply.

The Cathedral is the “home parish” of everyone in the diocese, but not “parish” in the sense that we’ve been using it in this thread. Transients are still part of the local parish where they are staying at the moment.

Does that make it “clear as mud?”

 

[Frosty]

Quasi-domicile is a place where you live for 3 months or more, but you don’t necessarily consider that "permanent.

I’d not heard that term before but it makes sense. When I was married in 1973, I had already been living away from “home” for seven years. First at university in one city then in another city where I was teaching school. While I regularly attended Mass in both those cities, I always thought of the parish that I had grown up in as my home parish even though it was hundreds of miles away]. since I went home nearly every weekend and spent most of the summers there.
While I was teaching, I never bothered to register at my geographical parish and normally attended Mass at the Church across the street from the Catholic School where I had been teaching for three years.
When it came time to plan for the wedding it never crossed my mind that I would be married anywhere else but my home parish, that my uncle would perform the ceremony and my Dad would simply call the rectory and inform the pastor of the month and find out what dates were available. No big deal, at least in my mind! A few days after I had been talking to my Dad, my uncle called me and said that he would be more than happy to perform the ceremony and he had been in touch with the pastor and been given permission. However, I was going to have to get a letter of permission?] from my parish priest in the city where I was currently living along with one from my fiance’s pastor and send them to the pastor of the church at “home” before any plans could be finalized. He did explain the reason for this to me but it was so long ago I really can’t remember it all. Anyway, this sent me into a bit of a frenzy. There was not a problem with my fiance’s pastor since he and his family had been attending the same parish for generations. I made an appointment with one of the priests, who I knew well, at the church where I did attend Mass. He was very sympathetic but said that he was not my pastor, Father X at Holy Rosary Church was and I would have to go and see him. “But Father”, I said, " I have only been to Mass there a handful of times and he doesn’t know me from a hole in the wall". I was assured not to worry, that a phone call would be made explaining who I was and the situation. I did make an appointment with Father X and he was so kind and helpful that I felt ashamed that I had not taken the time or put any thought into registering at that parish. There had been absolutely no reason not to , I just assumed that it really wasn’t important.
A few years ago we had a somewhat similar situation regarding parish jurisdiction. One of my sisters, who had been living in a different part of the country passed away. She had always wanted to be buried in the family plot back in our little home town and have the funeral Mass said from our old home parish. Once again we had to go through the proper channels before the pastor back “home” allowed for this to take place. Thankfully we then knew what had to be done so we were not caught unawares!

 

[JPUSC]

If my home is 2.6 miles from one parish and 3.2 miles from another parish in a neighboring city, do I have a choice between the two or is my parish the one that is 2.6 miles away?

It’s the same amount of driving time for both parishes.

 

[Lurgid]

If my home is 2.6 miles from one parish and 3.2 miles from another parish in a neighboring city, do I have a choice between the two or is my parish the one that is 2.6 miles away?

It’s the same amount of driving time for both parishes.

I can do you one better. I’m 2.7 miles from one church in a merged parish of three churches, and 2.7 miles from another church in a different parish. I go to the merged parish because I liked the priest and the KofC Council there.

 

[Apryl]

If my home is 2.6 miles from one parish and 3.2 miles from another parish in a neighboring city, do I have a choice between the two or is my parish the one that is 2.6 miles away?

It’s the same amount of driving time for both parishes.

Let me start by saying: “I don’t know”

However, there are archdiocene maps (aren’t there?) that draw up boundaries. Most churches can say, if you call them, 'our boundaries are" (aren’t there?)

Many people, however, do not live by those boundaries. That is, they live in one parish, but attend mass in another.

I have heard stories over the years of certain people not being welcomed at certain churches, or they want their children to attend a Catholic school, and are sent to another parish, so the parents wind up members of that church.

My personal story is that my family has NEVER lived in the parish where I’ve been a member my entire life. First, my father drove past my current parish on his way to work, so he never bothered to find the parish we were supposed to attend. Then, when I moved away, I wound up back at my old church because the church near me didn’t ‘feel’ right, and I just wanted to go where I was more comfortable

Today, I’m so involved in the church… and I have also found that so many other churches are so filled with liturgical abuses (mine has abuses, too, but not so many as the other churches that are closer to where I live). Now, it’s a fight for me. While some may say, ‘just leave and find a more traditional church’, I say ‘I have to stay to try to fix things’.

Oh… dang… didn’t mean to get so personal.