What is Neocatechumenate?

[Walking_Home]

The ad experimentum approval of the Neocatechumenal statutes came to an end July 2007. Since then there has been NO official statements from Rome on the status of the the statutes.

Apparently – Arguello and his “catechists” are feeding the Neocatechumenals a different story (that the Pope has approved all the statutes) .

 

[JAMaddict]

Also, I know some on here have complained about not being invited to the Saturday night masses, and about there being certain steps that are secretive, etc.

I’ll explain why that is if you want. The main reason why it is preferred you go to the “catechesis” first is because, as many of you on here have stated, compared to the usual Sunday Mass, there are some drastic differences, and for the average person to walk in on one of our Masses on the altar it might be one huge “What the hell is this?” if they don’t understand what the purpose of the Neocatechumenate is to begin with.

That said, occassionally ppl will come who are not in the Way, and it’s not like they’re kicked out, it’s just that if you are not walking in one of the communities to begin w/ then you might feel a little lost and won’t know anybody. Also, because we are given a brief time to speak about how the word applies to our life it might be more difficult for some to speak about real problems they are having if a stranger is there, or someone they know who is not in the community, because there is a lack of intimacy.

As for the steps, well I have been through 2, and my parents even more but I will say the reason that those who have been through the steps are told not to tell what they are doing in it is because, for those who are still at the beginning of the way, it might be a little overwhelming and they’d be like “I could never do that”.

I’ll give you an example, several years ago when I first started walking in the Way, hypothetically if you had told me I would be going door to door announcing Christ has risen, and visiting nursing homes etc. announcing the faith I would have been like “To hell with this. That’s crazy. I could never have the courage to do that. I quit.” etc. But over time, it’s a process and gradually you find the courage and trust in God to do things you would never have thought possible before. So that’s why.

 

[SemperFidelis]

and for the average person to walk in on one of our Masses on the altar it might be one huge “What the hell is this?”

And rightly so…

it’s just that if you are not walking in one of the communities to begin w/ then you might feel a little lost and won’t know anybody.

Is this something that should be pertinent to the Mass anyway?

 

[JAMaddict]

And rightly so…

Is this something that should be pertinent to the Mass anyway?

To your first comment, true that. Haha!

To your second, maybe not, and as I said before people who do come and aren’t part of the Neocat aren’t turned away. Not at all. But then, for example for a person such as yourself who isn’t in it, (and it’s not like many people who aren’t in it have tried to walk in on a Saturday) night- so if there’s no desire from the people complaining to participate in it anyway, then what’s the big fuss?

Also I would say that you know, my view on the Catholic Church isn’t that it should be individualistic, but rather that we’re all brothers and sisters in Christ. When I go to Mass on Sundays, and this is just the Churches I’ve been to, but maybe yours is different- there seems to be an extreme lack of spirit or enthusiasm about it- no one is singing the songs, the homily is like 10 minutes, after communion people flock out the doors before the end, etc. It all feels very disconnected, not like we are “one body” in Christ. And I think that getting to know other people in the same faith is a wonderful experience- and there are different ways of doing that- but the Neocatechumenal Way is mine.

 

[stmaria]

=JAMaddict;3630740]Also, I know some on here have complained about not being invited to the Saturday night masses, and about there being certain steps that are secretive, etc.

Why do you think some things are ‘secretive’ and at what point will you be let in on the secret?

Also is the mass always held in the Church or can it be in the home of an individual?

There is a huge shortage of priests. Where do you find priests who are part of this movement and have the time to be involved?

Are there times when a priest is not available but the Mass is held anyway?

 

[JAMaddict]

Why do you think some things are ‘secretive’ and at what point will you be let in on the secret?

Also is the mass always held in the Church or can it be in the home of an individual?

There is a huge shortage of priests. Where do you find priests who are part of this movement and have the time to be involved?

Are there times when a priest is not available but the Mass is held anyway?

1. To your first one, I say secretive meaning that the people who went through the step already are told not to tell the people who haven’t had it yet, what their experience was. I actually kind of gave one of them away though in what I posted earlier- oh, and I was curious to know what the others were, so I cheated and go to some of the ex-Neocat websites to look, because I’m a rebel like that.

But the main reason like I said before is, after having done a couple pf the “steps” myself, it does make the experience more special not knowing what happens ahead of time, because in some cases if you knew from the beginning you might give up, thinking you’d never be able to do it. It’s nothing horrific, just things that make you step outside of your comfort zone a little, and realize that God really does provide. But again you are never forced to do anything you don’t want to.

1. Every Mass is held on the altar of the Church except that we do sometimes hold our liturgies of the word in the houses of people in the community, and on New Years Eve we hold a Mass in one of the homes, with a priest of course. We have a few priests that sort of alternate between weekends, but our Parish priest does some of our Saturday night masses and he’s not even in the way.
2. Kind of like I said with number 2, while there are priests who are also part of the Neocatechumenate, actually most of the priests that do our masses are not a part of it…where I live we have a fairly large diocese so we have priests who will volunteeer from other parishes.
3. NEVER. It’s impossible to have a Mass without a priest. That said, if a priest is not available we usually have a liturgy of the word that night (meaning we read 3 readings, and echo about how they speak to our lives) but no eucharist. And then we all just go to Mass on Sunday.

 

[CatholicNerd]

When I go to Mass on Sundays, and this is just the Churches I’ve been to, but maybe yours is different- there seems to be an extreme lack of spirit or enthusiasm about it- no one is singing the songs, the homily is like 10 minutes, after communion people flock out the doors before the end, etc. It all feels very disconnected, not like we are “one body” in Christ. And I think that getting to know other people in the same faith is a wonderful experience- and there are different ways of doing that- but the Neocatechumenal Way is mine.

There are many reasons that people don’t sing: The chief among them is probably that they can’t. Are they somehow less “spirit filled” if they unite their hearts and minds to what is being sung? Goodness, I hope not! Another huge reason why people don’t sing in many parishes across the country is that the music is horrible. I’m an organ performance major who 's also fluent in chant and have sung some beautiful polyphony at Holy Mass at my parish in the Bay Area-- but when I’m away from my home parish and encounter hippie guitar music, I don’t sing it. Why should I? The Vatican has said time and again that it’s inadmissible to the Liturgy. Objectively speaking, it’s garbage.

I can think of plenty of situations where ten minute homilies are perfectly acceptable. Not all priests have been given the charism of preaching. Sometimes I honestly feel it’s ok for them to say what needs to be said and move on with the Mass.

You say you feel disconnected in other parishes. I’d argue that you feel that way because you are disconnected from us. **You worship outside of the parish church, which is an icon of the courts of Heaven. ** How could any Catholic in a country like ours, where we are privileged to have parish churches, voluntarily worship God outside of His normative physical dwelling place?

 

[JAMaddict]

There are many reasons that people don’t sing: The chief among them is probably that they can’t. Are they somehow less “spirit filled” if they unite their hearts and minds to what is being sung? Goodness, I hope not! Another huge reason why people don’t sing in many parishes across the country is that the music is horrible. I’m an organ performance major who 's also fluent in chant and have sung some beautiful polyphony at Holy Mass at my parish in the Bay Area-- but when I’m away from my home parish and encounter hippie guitar music, I don’t sing it. Why should I? The Vatican has said time and again that it’s inadmissible to the Liturgy. Objectively speaking, it’s garbage.

I can think of plenty of situations where ten minute homilies are perfectly acceptable. Not all priests have been given the charism of preaching. Sometimes I honestly feel it’s ok for them to say what needs to be said and move on with the Mass.

You say you feel disconnected in other parishes. I’d argue that you feel that way because you are disconnected from us. **You worship outside of the parish church, which is an icon of the courts of Heaven. ** How could any Catholic in a country like ours, where we are privileged to have parish churches, voluntarily worship God outside of His normative physical dwelling place?

I’m going to disagree with this, and I hope you will let me explain why. As you said before there are plenty of reasons people don’t sing. And I’m sure there are plenty of reasons people go to Mass in their low cut tops, and tiny shorts as well…but for me? I like a Mass where the people do sing, even if they suck at it it doesnt matter bc theyre praising God, and where the music is enjoyable. I really really like the Neocatechumenate music because alot of the songs are directly from Scripture and we sing some Jewish songs too. I love the guitars and tamborines, etc. I’m weird like that.

I also don’t understand why you think that Neocats (well most of them) are disconnected from the rest of the parish? We are very much encouraged to participate in what is going on…speaking for myself, I like to volunteer down at the soup kitchen occassionally, do youth groups, and for a few years I was an assistant CCD teacher at my parish…so it’s not like we’re living in caves or something, LOL.

Edited to add: As I’ve said before I do go to the Sunday masses too usually but anyway I think its great for Catholics to worship everywhere.

 

[Dee_Dee_King]

i was in the “way” for about two years. the biggest issue i had with it was the liturgy which took place in a ordinary room–not the church–in which the altar was in fact a table covered with a cloth and some flowers around the edges–hardly beautiful. this is because they basically reject the mass as a sacrifice and instead identify it mostly as a banquet. there also was a rug, a lectern and a icon and offical kiko crucifix.

everyone sits around this table during commuion when the priest walks around and gives you a big chunk of bread to hold in your hand. there is no kneeling. then you all take a big drink of wine from a big chalice after you recieve and consume the bread. after that, everyone holds hands and does this really goofy dance around the table when mass is over.

most of the stages of the way are kept secret. you never know what is going on. i know there is a public confession of faith which can be very embarassing. they also support knocking on peoples doors and inviting them to the way, kind of like JW and mormons.

the liturgy is a fabrication and needs to be fixed.

 

[JAMaddict]

does this really goofy dance around the table when mass is over.

most of the stages of the way are kept secret. you never know what is going on. i know there is a public confession of faith which can be very embarassing. they also support knocking on peoples doors and inviting them to the way, kind of like JW and mormons.

The goofy dance, LOL. If anyone doesn’t know what she’s talking about, you can see it on Youtube since the DC streets were pretty much filled with the songs and dancing during the Popes visit.

About the knocking on doors thing…true it’s similar to what the JW’s do, except the difference is that it’s the Catholic faith that is being announced instead, and we dont come to convert, just give our experiences. I know I visited a nursing home the other day and when we came to talk to one woman she was really overjoyed, at excited to find out that we were Catholics…she’s like “The Church is doing this now?”.

I don’t see what’s wrong with announcing the good news of Christ. Sure, in modern times you face a lot of persecution for it…but the disciples pretty much did the same thing. Even if I can just help one person, I think it’s worth it.

 

[stmaria]

=JAMaddict;3633407]
About the knocking on doors thing…true it’s similar to what the JW’s do, except the difference is that it’s the Catholic faith that is being announced instead, and we dont come to convert, just give our experiences

.
If you came to my door, what would you say to me about the Catholic Church?

 

[JAMaddict]

.
If you came to my door, what would you say to me about the Catholic Church?

Wow, you’re asking some good questions! LOL…And I have to confess, I’m not very good at it yet.

Well if I came knocking on the door, the first thing I would do is tell you I am from the Catholic Church and make sure you know that I am not there to convert you (because that is something that will make ppl slam the door in your face immediately) but that Christ has overcome death, and that he loves you, no matter what situation you may be finding yourself in in your life. And then I would give you my experience of how I have encountered Christ’s love and mercy in my life through the Church.

Some people are sort of suspicious of it (and I don’t blame them bc I feel the same way when ppl come to our door), but others that I, and others from my church, have visited are extremely excited that the Catholic Church is doing this and say this was just what they needed to hear- haha even some jews and baptists are willing to listen and want to share their experiences, and talk about what problems they are facing in their life.

It’s really both a humbling, and joyful experience at the same time being able to talk about my faith to others…though I have to admit it’s really frightening since I’m not the greatest public speaker.

 

[martinporres]

Thank you for taking the time to respond earnestly to all these questions, JAMaddict. It’s very courageous of you and I pray the posters here continue to take this tone and that you don’t get discouraged if anyone is rude here.

After reading all of your responses, I have to say that I admire the spirit-filled nature of your living. That The Way has apparently given you rebirth within the Catholic Church is praiseworthy!

I guess my only qualm is the secretive (from other parishoners) and distinct Eucharist the community celebrates. I just don’t see anywhere in Church history where a group or community which has such a different liturgy existed where it didn’t eventually break away from its parent. I am afraid that by not celebrating the Eucharist like the rest of us Latin Rite Catholics do (whether ordinary or extraordinary forms), that a separation from bond and/or radical misapprehension of Church teaching is inevitable.

My questions are: considering all this, and especially because liturgy is so central to our Catholic faith,

1. 
   *]Do you ever worry about Neocats straying from the Church?
   *]If the Neocat leader’s will is to change more in the future, or even to break away, do you fear that some of your community would follow him?
   *]Would that be the will of God?
   
   In Christ,
   mp

 

[robert_ambrose]

i know they like to have communion round an ordinary table, with ord. bread etc.

 

[JAMaddict]

I am afraid that by not celebrating the Eucharist like the rest of us Latin Rite Catholics do (whether ordinary or extraordinary forms), that a separation from bond and/or radical misapprehension of Church teaching is inevitable.

My questions are: considering all this, and especially because liturgy is so central to our Catholic faith,

1. 
   *]Do you ever worry about Neocats straying from the Church?
   *]If the Neocat leader’s will is to change more in the future, or even to break away, do you fear that some of your community would follow him?
   *]Would that be the will of God?
   
   In Christ,
   mp

1. 
   Thankyou! I really do hope that I’m giving you guys a better understanding of it.
   
   To you first question, sure I definitely worry about people in the Neocatechumenate straying from the Church, but no more that I do for any of my other family and friends in the Catholic faith. That said, no I’m not concerned at all about the Neocatechumenal Way breaking off from the Church, because the entire premise of the Way is to bring back those individuals who have fallen away from the Catholic Church, and encourage them to be more involved in, and come to a deeper understanding of the faith. Not all, but there are many people baptized Catholic who pretty much think thats that, and go to Mass twice a year on Easter and Christmas…but really get nothing out of it, or don’t really feel God’s presence in their life and are unable to defend the Church in the face of persecution.
   
   Speaking from just my personal experience, the people in the communities are from all walks of life, there’s rich and poor, hispanic white black, young, and old…people who’ve been Catholic all their lives, people who left the church for years, others who converted to Catholic from Lutherinism, Presbyterianism, etc…so it’s really a way to bring people back to the faith, and make them more passionate about it, rather that tearing it apart.
   
   Some of the people in my community work under the bishop, others volunteer at the soup kitchen, others teach RCIA, and catechism in Catholic schools in the diocese…so it’s definitely not isolated from the church, and once a year the Way holds a catechesis in the parishes inviting Catholics, and non Practicing Catholics to participate.
   1. To your second question, to be honest, I hardly view Kiko as our leader, just more like the originator of the Way…which is suppose to be more like going back to the way the early Christians celebrated Mass in their small communities, and going out to announce the message of Christ to the poor, etc. We also focus alot on the Churches roots in Judaism, and the difference in the way we celebrate the Mass…for example the circle dance that was mentioned in an earlier post, refers to the dance that was done around the arc of the covenant, and in that we see how it is through Christ that God’s promise in the Old Testament is fullfilled. Also btw I am unsure of the date, but according to what I’ve heard is that in either March or Feb, Pope Benedict approved all of the statutes of the Way, and that there is going to be an announcement coming up soon. BTW, we are very much behind the Pope and at the world youth days (I’ve been to the past 2 of them and dozens from my community are going to the next in Australia) more than have the people there are from the Way).
   The Neocatechumenate would never leave the Church because it serves the Church, and we are the Church, and it’s purpose is to bring people back to the faith.
   1. First of all I believe that everything that happens in my life is what has God allowed for me, whether it’s something good or bad, and it’s through my suffering and sin, that I come to realize my need for God and the Church.
   The Neocatechumenate, as I’ve said above would and could never leave the Church because our core belief is that Christ founded one Church, the Catholic Church, and that we are suppose to be a sign of the faith to others so that the Church will be whole again. Not to say I don’t struggle with my faith at all…because I struggle alot, but I can see God working in my life and I hope one day I will be able to have true faith in God.

 

[martinporres]

Thanks for your sincere answer.

In Christ,
mp