What is Neocatechumenate?

[JKirkLVNV]

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The information is in the links that I have provided in past threads. It may be to your benefit–for you to become familiar with what they are—in case they show up in your parish—if they are not there already.

The only associations we have in my parish are the Our Father Prayer Group, the Our Lady of Las Vegas Men’s Society, and the Altar Society.

Here are some links that seem to demonstrate that beyond the liturgical questions, there’s not a problem:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocatechumenal_Way

vatican.net/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_pc_laity_doc_20020701_cammino-neocatecumenale_en.html

chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=21939&eng=y (even La Chiesa only mentions the liturgical problems).

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=18130

catholic.com/

 

[Walking_Home]

The only associations we have in my parish are the Our Father Prayer Group, the Our Lady of Las Vegas Men’s Society, and the Altar Society.

Here are some links that seem to demonstrate that beyond the liturgical questions, there’s not a problem:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neocatechumenal_Way

vatican.net/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/laity/documents/rc_pc_laity_doc_20020701_cammino-neocatecumenale_en.html

chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/dettaglio.jsp?id=21939&eng=y (even La Chiesa only mentions the liturgical problems).

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=18130

catholic.com/

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There is information that says otherwise.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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The Arians also considered themselves to be Catholic.

Doesn’t matter what any group or person considers themselves. It matters what the Magisterium considers them. That’s how you and I can recognize “Catholic.” The Magisteri um tells us.
Beyond the liturgical problems, the Magisterium doesn’t seem to have a problem with them (unless you can cite where the Magisterium does have problems with them other than liturgical?).

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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There is information that says otherwise.

Produce it.

 

[Walking_Home]

Produce it.

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As I said----the information is there in the other threads and links.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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As I said----the information is there in the other threads and links.

And as I said, I don’t think Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI would approve or allow anything heretical or a cult to be approved by the Holy See. If he hadn’t been there, maybe it could have gotten past the old Holy Father in the last years of his decline, but Ratzinger was there. I’ve no dog in the race, as I’m not a joiner. But I don’t think you can say “cult” where the association has been approved by the Church.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

ANd what can you cite that the MAGISTERIUM has called heretical or cultish? It’s interesting what others have said, but what does the Pope, the Magisterium, say?

As I said, I don’t think Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI would approve or allow anything heretical or a cult to be approved by the Holy See. If he hadn’t been there, maybe it could have gotten past the old Holy Father in the last years of his decline, but Ratzinger was there. I’ve no dog in the race, as I’m not a joiner. But I don’t think you can say “cult” where the association has been approved by the Church.

 

[chewchoo]

i just did a search on zenit.org, and NW met with the russian orthodox patriarch back in october, so they are trying to get into the orthodox churches as well.

 

[Walking_Home]

And as I said, I don’t think Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI would approve or allow anything heretical or a cult to be approved by the Holy See. If he hadn’t been there, maybe it could have gotten past the old Holy Father in the last years of his decline, but Ratzinger was there. I’ve no dog in the race, as I’m not a joiner. But I don’t think you can say “cult” where the association has been approved by the Church.

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They have gotten away with their own “doctrine” because it is taught internally—within the “communities”. They did not put it out front — for our late Pope and Card Ratzinger to see what they really are—that has been their method of success.

More and more JKirkLVNV—it is surfacing. The over-emphasis of the Mass as a meal, the horizontal emphasis of the “community”, the community (assembly) performs the consecration, and yes–the Chalice—both species needed to complete Holy Communion.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

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They have gotten away with their own “doctrine” because it is taught internally—within the “communities”. They did not put it out front — for our late Pope and Card Ratzinger to see what they really are—that has been their method of success.

More and more JKirkLVNV—it is surfacing. The over-emphasis of the Mass as a meal, the horizontal emphasis of the “community”, the community (assembly) performs the consecration, and yes–the Chalice—both species needed to complete Holy Communion.

If what you say is true, then you have a moral obligation to bring this to the attention of the local bishop, Cardinal Levada, and the pope.

 

[Walking_Home]

If what you say is true, then you have a moral obligation to bring this to the attention of the local bishop, Cardinal Levada, and the pope.

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I also have the moral obligation to let people know what the Neocatechumenals really are. When I die —I do not want to be accountable to God----that I knew and did nothing.

 

[Walking_Home]

i just did a search on zenit.org, and NW met with the russian orthodox patriarch back in october, so they are trying to get into the orthodox churches as well.

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The Neocatechumenals tried—but were turned down by the Orthodox. The danger is–that they could get to the Orthodox laity–then use them to get a foothold within the Orthodox Church.

 

[Petite]

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They have gotten away with their own “doctrine” because it is taught internally—within the “communities”. They did not put it out front — for our late Pope and Card Ratzinger to see what they really are—that has been their method of success.

More and more JKirkLVNV—it is surfacing. The over-emphasis of the Mass as a meal, the horizontal emphasis of the “community”, the community (assembly) performs the consecration, and yes–the Chalice—both species needed to complete Holy Communion.

May I echo my sentiments here: I too believe that the Neocatechumenate is a cult. I knew a family who moved to another state because the ‘community’ was not taking hold in diocese they lived in. I have wondered if the commitment in terms of time was a factor. (The time required is tremendous–meetings twice a week, plus their own Mass on Saturday. They have monthly retreats. The total ‘formation’ is supposed to take 6-7 years, but many times, it takes twice as long–at least, this is what I have read.)

A lot of what they ‘teach’ is not published–it’s secretive.

For those who want links to read more, may I suggest you check these links out. Some of these links are pro and some con of the group.

Some may argue that disgruntled ex-members sponsored the links that are critical of the Way–as it’s referred to sometimes. That may be true. Of course, the very enthusiastic links could also be faulted for looking through rose colored glasses. Decide for yourself.

ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Ronald_Haynes/neocat1.htm

cathud.com/LINKS/pages_MR/neocatechumenate.htm

antyk.org.pl/wiara/neokatechumenat/inside.htm

church-mouse.lanuera.com/Links/links1.html
198.62.75.1/www2/ncw/english/newcatheP.htm

 

[Catholic_Dude]

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The Neocatechumenal Way is a Cult whose objective is to undermine the Church from within. There is one authority for the Neocatechumenals --and that is Kiko Arguello (the founder). The following thread has information concerning this cult.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=163804

Thanks for your info, you seem to be the most informed about this issue. Through your links I tracked down a Jimmy Akin blog entry:
In the Neocatechumenal Way, communion is taken while seated around a large square table, with a large loaf of bread that is divided among the participants and wine that is passes from hand to hand and is taken in large swallows.

…There are significant innovations in other parts of the Mass.
…the readings from the liturgy of the Word are commented upon by the catechists of the group, who make lengthy “admonitions” followed by “resonances” from many of those present. The priest’s homily is hardly distinguished, or not distinguished at all…
The Neocatechumenals do not celebrate their Masses on Sunday, but on Saturday evening…
Each Neocatechumenal group corresponds to a different stage of the Way, so each group of 20-30 persons has its own Mass. …

Until recently, the founders and directors of the Way had shielded these practices by claiming they had received verbal authorization from John Paul II. But with Benedict XVI, playtime is over.
…
jimmyakin.org/2006/01/neocatechumenal.html
It is pretty clear this is a cult and from just what I read here it is easy to conclude that their theology is more warped. I dont believe they were honest when they were first seeking approval and had evil modernist intentions in mind the whole time.

​

 

[RomanRevert]

Thanks for your info, you seem to be the most informed about this issue. Through your links I tracked down a Jimmy Akin blog entry:
In the Neocatechumenal Way, communion is taken while seated around a large square table, with a large loaf of bread that is divided among the participants and wine that is passes from hand to hand and is taken in large swallows.

…There are significant innovations in other parts of the Mass.
…the readings from the liturgy of the Word are commented upon by the catechists of the group, who make lengthy “admonitions” followed by “resonances” from many of those present. The priest’s homily is hardly distinguished, or not distinguished at all…
The Neocatechumenals do not celebrate their Masses on Sunday, but on Saturday evening…
Each Neocatechumenal group corresponds to a different stage of the Way, so each group of 20-30 persons has its own Mass. …

Until recently, the founders and directors of the Way had shielded these practices by claiming they had received verbal authorization from John Paul II. But with Benedict XVI, playtime is over.
…
jimmyakin.org/2006/01/neocatechumenal.html
It is pretty clear this is a cult and from just what I read here it is easy to conclude that their theology is more warped. I dont believe they were honest when they were first seeking approval and had evil modernist intentions in mind the whole time.

​

Man, this is pretty creepy stuff! Why are groups such as this allowed in the Church? Is there any additional news about these people?

 

[JAMaddict]

I’m a 20 year old girl, and I’m in the Neocatechumenate…um really we aren’t that creepy, lol. Unless you are easily irritated by guitar music. The main thing about the Neocatechumenate is that we walk in a community in the parish. We have a Liturgy one time during the week and mass on Saturday night.

When I was in highschool I use to hate it with a passion and would be right there along with you guys saying “It’s a cult. They’re freaks!”, mainly because I was really annoyed with my parents for making me go to it since I’d rather be out with friends partying.

But really, looking back on my life now some of the most beautiful moments in my life have been with the people in my community- for example the last world youth day was an extremely moving experience for me, and then all of the people I have got to know in the Catholic faith, who I would never have been friends with before. You get to know them on a much deeper level than you would at your average Sunday Mass.

Anway, I went through my “Neocat is a cult!” stage, and ended up quiting…but now…something has changed, and I realize I appreciate what it has done for me in my life that I never noticed before. So, I’ve decided to join it again.

BTW if you have no idea who the Neocatechumenate is, they’re the ones who drowned out all the protesters who were coming to attack the pope in D.C…haha.

If you want to see an example check out the vid posted by the protesters on youtube called “Rebuking the Pope in Washington D.C”. I wish I would have gone there.

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More and more JKirkLVNV—it is surfacing. The over-emphasis of the Mass as a meal, the horizontal emphasis of the “community”, the community (assembly) performs the consecration, and yes–the Chalice—both species needed to complete Holy Communion.

I honestly am not sure what you are talking about here about overemphasizing mass as a meal. I don’t recall snacking on McDonald’s or anything during Mass. We have the readings, songs, homily, receive the body and the blood, and also…the PRIEST performs the consecration.

 

[stmaria]

=JAMaddict;3629619]I’m a 20 year old girl, and I’m in the Neocatechumenate…um really we aren’t that creepy, lol. Unless you are easily irritated by guitar music. The main thing about the Neocatechumenate is that we walk in a community in the parish. We have a Liturgy one time during the week and mass on Saturday night.

Would you please describe the way communion is given at the Mass? Is it a loaf of bread that is passed around?

Would you care to comment on this recent story out of Japan?

ucanews.com/html/ucan/f_dishpatch.asp?title=%20%20Japanese%20Bishops%20Meet%20Pope%20For%20Second%20Time%20In%20Five%20Months&ucalang=English_…/news_report/english/2008/04/w5/tue/ZY04894Rg.txt
ROME (UCAN) – In an extraordinary move, the Japanese Bishops’ Conference sent a delegation last week to discuss with Pope Benedict XVI “the serious problem” they are having with the Neocatechumenal Way and its seminary in Takamatsu diocese… The Neocatechumenal Way (the Way) and the International Takamatsu Diocesan Seminary known as Redemptoris Mater. We have here a serious problem. In the small Catholic Church of Japan,** the powerful sect-like activity of Way members is divisive and confrontational**. It has caused sharp painful division and strife within the Church. We are struggling with all our strength to overcome the problem but feel that if a solution is to be found"

 

[JAMaddict]

Would you please describe the way communion is given at the Mass? Is it a loaf of bread that is passed around?

Would you care to comment on this recent story out of Japan?

ucanews.com/html/ucan/f_dishpatch.asp?title=%20%20Japanese%20Bishops%20Meet%20Pope%20For%20Second%20Time%20In%20Five%20Months&ucalang=English_…/news_report/english/2008/04/w5/tue/ZY04894Rg.txt
ROME (UCAN) – In an extraordinary move, the Japanese Bishops’ Conference sent a delegation last week to discuss with Pope Benedict XVI “the serious problem” they are having with the Neocatechumenal Way and its seminary in Takamatsu diocese… The Neocatechumenal Way (the Way) and the International Takamatsu Diocesan Seminary known as Redemptoris Mater. We have here a serious problem. In the small Catholic Church of Japan,** the powerful sect-like activity of Way members is divisive and confrontational**. It has caused sharp painful division and strife within the Church. We are struggling with all our strength to overcome the problem but feel that if a solution is to be found"

Sure. I’ve never made the bread myself, since, well I’m a really bad cook, but it is typically made by one of the members of the community, that helped prepare the Eucharist for that night (picking the songs, who will read the readings, do prayers of the faithful, etc) and there is a certain type of flour that has to be used. It is not a loaf of bread, but unleavened bread. As for the wine, we use the same wine as the regular churchgoers use, and we take collections to buy more for the church.

As for the Japan article, I’m not sure, since I live in the U.S. Though I suppose there are confrontational people in every group…it depends on the individual I guess.

And yes btw, it is true, we do sit down when we receive communion. The Mass takes place on the altar, and we arrange flowers on the altar and light the candles, it’s really beautiful. The Priest does the consecration and walks around to every one of us saying just what he would at a normal Mass- you know “The body of Christ” we say “Amen”. The difference is we remain holding the body of Christ until the Priest goes around to everyone and that is when we consume it.

The Mass is similar to the Sunday Mass, in that we say the creed, and of course the same readings, etc. The difference that others have already pointed out is that there are brief admonitions before each reading, and individuals are given time to offer up their own petitions during the Mass. The priest usually gives a ten to fifteen minute homily. We have guitars, and tamborines, and there’s lots of singing. I usually end up going to both Saturday night and Sunday Masses but I enjoy the Saturday night more because everyone is singing and we all have the opportunity to actively participate in the Mass, so I feel like I get alot more out of it.
I hope that helps.

 

[Walking_Home]

And yes btw, it is true, we do sit down when we receive communion. The Mass takes place on the altar, and we arrange flowers on the altar, it’s really beautiful. The Priest does the consecration and walks around to every one of us saying just what he would at a normal Mass- you know “The body of Christ” we say “Amen”. The difference is we remain holding the body of Christ until the Priest goes around to everyone and that is when we consume it.

I hope that helps.

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From what has been stated— the Neocatechumenal communities are still following Kiko Arguello’s method of receiving communion. This shows - who the Neocatechumenals really follow. They will pay lip service to the Pope — but the one with the real authority over the Neocatechumenals is Arguello— Not the Church. Kiko Arguello and his “movement” were given a period not to exceed two years – to change over to receiving like the rest of the Church and the transition should have been accomplished by the end of 2007. So no matter the “loyalty” to Rome they profess—Arguello over-rides Rome and has become “pope” to the Neocatechumenals.

zenit.org/article-14922?l=english

Holy See Gives Guidelines to Neocatechumenate

For Celebration of Mass

VATICAN CITY, JAN. 1, 2006 (Zenit.org).- The Holy See has sent a letter to the Neocatechumenal Way, establishing guidelines that the Way must follow in the celebration of Mass.

Regarding the manner of receiving Communion, the letter “grants the Neocatechumenal Way a time of transition (not to exceed two years) to go from the present way of receiving Holy Communion in their communities (seated, around a table prepared in the center of the Church instead of the altar dedicated in the presbytery) to the normal way for the whole Church of receiving Holy Communion.”

 

[JAMaddict]

Well I’m not claiming to be all knowing or anything but from my understanding the Pope has just within the past couple months approved all of the statutes for the Way and is now satisfied…but if he does have a problem with it, well then something will have to be done. You can tell him what I said! I’ve got nothing to hide. Also, if you guys have any more questions, feel free to ask. Like I said, I’ve had the same view as you at one time, and did everything I could to bash the way, so I’ve been there…but…I don’t know. It really has made me want to grow stronger in my faith. I can really see what little faith I have had and I don’t want to go on living like that.