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JonathanKinsman
Guest
Don’t worry about it. Under your goofy interpretation, no one needs Jesus or salvation.And NOT ONCE could you prove your Mary theory with scripture.
Because no one will sin with that wall of enmity between Satan and us.
That’s your belief. Your crazy, inane, unscriptural, nonsensical, belief.
You are the only one here who thinks that way: the burden is on you, believers.
But your profile says it all: you think us Catholics are not Christian.
Shame on you for such an uncharitable inference.
J
JonathanKinsman
Guest
“Enmity” is hate, believers.What are you talking about? How exactly does “my” interpretation do away with sin?
So there will be hate forever between satan and his minions and Eve and her offspring.
I don’t think people go to things they hate, do you?
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believers
Guest
You do realize that you’ve done nothing but prove to me that you’re twisting scripture to fit your religion. Everything is completely out of context with your own interpretation thrown in the mix.
The bible says woman then you immediately assume it’s Mary when Eve was standing right there before God. Right along with Adam. So God is talks to Satan, then somehow refers to “Mary”, then Eve, then talks to Adam.
You’ll notice “the woman” is Eve in Gen 3:16
Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
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HailMary
Guest
So, you are suggesting that the woman who has the enmity with the serpent is Eve?You do realize that you’ve done nothing but prove to me that you’re twisting scripture to fit your religion. Everything is completely out of context with your own interpretation thrown in the mix.
The bible says woman then you immediately assume it’s Mary when Eve was standing right there before God. Right along with Adam. So God is talks to Satan, then somehow refers to “Mary”, then Eve, then talks to Adam.
You’ll notice “the woman” is Eve in Gen 3:16
Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
Wow.
J
JonathanKinsman
Guest
The reason you’re having a problem with this is because none of your religions traditions are listed./
J
JonathanKinsman
Guest
You do realize that you’ve done nothing but prove to me that you’re twisting scripture to fit your religion. Everything is completely out of context with your own interpretation thrown in the mix.
Well, you ASSUME that ‘tradition’ does not mean Jewish traditions.
Where did you get that in the Bible???
From a prophet in the OT talking about the future NT and what ‘tradition’ will mean?
Or was it from an NT writer like St Paul who KNEW that after his death other books would be written and collected and that his use of tradition would be for those things listed in that New Testament (as yet not in existence).
J
JonathanKinsman
Guest
“Enmity” is hate, believers.
Cat got your tongue??So there will be hate forever between satan and his minions and Eve and her offspring.
I don’t think people go to things they hate, do you?
B
believers
Guest
All throughout the Old Testament you can see Satan trying to kill off the “seed of the woman”. Cain killed righteous Abel. But then the seed of the woman continued down through seth… and so on. Satan failed in his attempt to kill the seed of the woman that ended with the birth of Jesus by Mary. Herod tried to kill him but failed. Jesus, the God of peace, finally bruised his head when he went to the cross.So, you are suggesting that the woman who has the enmity with the serpent is Eve?
Wow.
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.
J
JonathanKinsman
Guest
You just agreed with Jane Frances, Hail Mary and myself!!All throughout the Old Testament you can see Satan trying to kill off the “seed of the woman”. Cain killed righteous Abel. But then the seed of the woman continued down through seth… and so on. Satan failed in his attempt to kill the seed of the woman that ended with the birth of Jesus by Mary. Herod tried to kill him but failed. Jesus, the God of peace, finally bruised his head when he went to the cross.
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.
Your quote above supports to a ‘t’ that “the woman” was Mary because (your words believers) "Jesus, the God of peace, finally bruised his head when he went ot the cross."
J
JonathanKinsman
Guest
Well, you ASSUME that ‘tradition’ does not mean Jewish traditions.
Where did you get that in the Bible???
From a prophet in the OT talking about the future NT and what ‘tradition’ will mean?
Or was it from an NT writer like St Paul who KNEW that after his death other books would be written and collected and that his use of tradition would be for those things listed in that New Testament (as yet not in existence).
B
believers
Guest
No, I didn’t. What you’re not getting is the seed of the woman (Eve) is the righteous seed.You just agreed with Jane Frances, Hail Mary and myself!!
Your quote above supports to a ‘t’ that “the woman” was Mary because (your words believers) "Jesus, the God of peace, finally bruised his head when he went ot the cross."
Pro 11:21 [Though] hand [join] in hand, the wicked shall not be unpunished: but the seed of the righteous shall be delivered.
R
runandsew
Guest
I don’t mean to come off sounding rude or anything, I am just curious… Have you read any theology books, or taken a class, or do you come up with this stuff on your own?You do realize that you’ve done nothing but prove to me that you’re twisting scripture to fit your religion. Everything is completely out of context with your own interpretation thrown in the mix.
The bible says woman then you immediately assume it’s Mary when Eve was standing right there before God. Right along with Adam. So God is talks to Satan, then somehow refers to “Mary”, then Eve, then talks to Adam.
You’ll notice “the woman” is Eve in Gen 3:16
Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17
And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
R
runandsew
Guest
believers,
The reason I ask this is because I have heard several Protestant Pastors refer to Gen. 3:15 as foreshadowing Mary and Jesus, so when I read your comments that we Catholics twist scripture to fit our religion, I sense that you will not accept some interpretations of scripture because you feel they are “Catholic” in your mind.
I have read some of your interpretations, and they are very good and insightful, but they are not the “only” interpretation.
Scripture can have several “spiritual” interpretations, not and not just have one fulfillment. Your interpretation was a very good one, but I don’t think you can rule out the interpretation of Mary being one of the things that Gen. 3:15 is pointing to, just because you might think that it is too “catholic”
Always keep an open mind when reading scripture, and let it lead you to where God wants you to go, don’t put up barriers because of your preconceived notions.
The reason I ask this is because I have heard several Protestant Pastors refer to Gen. 3:15 as foreshadowing Mary and Jesus, so when I read your comments that we Catholics twist scripture to fit our religion, I sense that you will not accept some interpretations of scripture because you feel they are “Catholic” in your mind.
I have read some of your interpretations, and they are very good and insightful, but they are not the “only” interpretation.
Scripture can have several “spiritual” interpretations, not and not just have one fulfillment. Your interpretation was a very good one, but I don’t think you can rule out the interpretation of Mary being one of the things that Gen. 3:15 is pointing to, just because you might think that it is too “catholic”
Always keep an open mind when reading scripture, and let it lead you to where God wants you to go, don’t put up barriers because of your preconceived notions.
R
Randy_Carson
Guest
Catholic Dogmatics gives a special place to the teachings of the Apostles. It is because they received the special charism of the Holy Spirit that they were able to write new Scriptures. In like fashion their teachings were special and protected from error. This does not mean that they might not sometimes voice their opinions in a non-infallible way. St. Paul himself said:
1Cr 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
We can argue as to what authority this judgement actually has since it is inscripturated, but it appears that St. Paul thought he was giving his own opinion and that that he further thought it was of lesser authority than an oral tradition from Jesus.
Food for thought…
1Cr 7:25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.
We can argue as to what authority this judgement actually has since it is inscripturated, but it appears that St. Paul thought he was giving his own opinion and that that he further thought it was of lesser authority than an oral tradition from Jesus.
Food for thought…
D
dcdurel
Guest
Catholics love to attack sola Scriptura, but when one starts to critique their rule of faith you find many more problems, many inconsistencies with the early church, and no firm basis or agreement to what it really means. For example they often switch back and forth in their definition of Oral Tradition to suit their current argument. So I have a question, what is this infallilble Oral Tradition?
*]Is it a second body of teaching by the Apostles that was not put down in writing by passed down orally?
*]Is it an intepretational guide to the Scriptures that were passed down from the Apostles?
*]Is it the Holy Spirit leading the church in history to arrive at truths that may not have been passed down from the Apostles?
*]Or is it something else.
Oral Tradition is simply the Gospel that the apostles taught and preached.
You will then ask, what is the content of this Gospel, since no where in the bible do we find a summary of this Gospel that the apostles taught and preached.
It is easy to know what they taught and preached. Just find out what the early Christians believed, since they all claimed their teachings came from the apostles.
Well, they were all Catholic and the teachings they believed that they said came from the apostles are the same teachings the Catholic Church teaches today.
In other words, the content of Sacred Tradition, oral Tradition, is simply all the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Church teachings came from the apostles. The apostles learned from Jesus. Thus, the Gospel that Jesus taught completely only to His apostles is the Catholic faith. That is why the Popes teach over and over that the Catechisms proclaim the Gospel.
Catechisms are simply the summary of the Gospel the apostles taught and preached.
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