What is Pope Francis teaching the poor?

[Bubba_Switzler]

Yes, teaching your children in an age appropriate manner is not insulting, but applying that same logic to the poor is insulting. Of course I would not deny that at times Popes, Bishops, and Priests provide teachings directly targeted at specific groups due to various needs of the Church. But much of the Pope’s teachings are targeted to the universal Church, not any specific group in specific. However, your position is that the poor are like your toddlers, they are only being taught if they are being specifically addressed with teachings that can only apply to them. It is insulting (in the extreme,IMO) to the poor to state that the Pope’s teachings do not apply to them.

You chose the “insulting” analogy and then complained that it is insulting. That’s silly.

Yes, people in different circumstances need different teaching. Is anyone really denying that the pope was telling the rich to give to the poor?

As to the meaning of the word benefactor: please note that I stated the common meaning of the word. In its most common sense, it means someone who provides money. But that is a side issue. If you want to say that the Pope is a benefactor of the poor: great, I have no problem with that.

But when you say the pope is not teaching the poor or is not a pastor to the poor, that is a horribly wrong thing to say.

It would only be wrong if it were incorrect.

 

[tafan]

Ok, lets forget the your family analogy for a moment, as I obviously was not clear.

You stat that the pope has provided no teaching to the poor. That can only be true if one is to assume the poor is some type if inferior class for whom his universal teachings do not apply. It is absurd.

 

[glendab]

I have not read Pope Francis’ biographies. If anyone has, perhaps they might share something relevant from his days in Argentina when his responsibilities were narrower.

Hey there Bubba! (I kinda like saying that but no drawl can be typed out)

The obviously answer to your question for me is a question: Why don’t you read Pope Francis’ stuff and get back to us about the topic of poverty. Let the man himself speak for himself.

Glenda

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The obviously answer to your question for me is a question: Why don’t you read Pope Francis’ stuff and get back to us about the topic of poverty. Let the man himself speak for himself.

I don’t claim to have read everything he has written much less heard everything he has said. But so far, what I have found is consistent with my original observation and nobody has offered anything to contradict it. We may all be missing something…but maybe not.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

You stat that the pope has provided no teaching to the poor. That can only be true if one is to assume the poor is some type if inferior class for whom his universal teachings do not apply. It is absurd.

I honestly don’t understand why you attribute inferiority to differentiation. I don’t know how Catholic schools do it today but I remember that when we got sex-ed the boys were seperated from the girls which made total sense given the difference between boys and girls. Similarly, one would expect a pastor of a retirement community to focus on different issues than the pastor of a military base. What’s absurd about that exactly?

 

[fred_conty]

It seems like pope Francis is saying that we need to help the poor not only with food and essentials but also help elevate them in our world to put them on an equal footing with us, the rich, successful folk.

Then on the other hand it seems he is saying we can learn from their poverty to deimphasize material things and have more correct spiritual judgment when it comes to riches.

Basically, he wants the field to be leveled. It dosen’t seem he has a plan how this is to be carried out except thru the motive of christian charity.

What I do not see in his letter is the answer to: how has he proposed anything different that hasen’t already be proposed by any other pope? I don’t really see anything new, but just a reemphasis on the poor. Not that there is anything wrong with this.

By the way, he really does have a big winning smile. I think all of us could learn something from that. We have Lutheran friends who commented about that to us.

 

[tafan]

I honestly don’t understand why you attribute inferiority to differentiation. I don’t know how Catholic schools do it today but I remember that when we got sex-ed the boys were seperated from the girls which made total sense given the difference between boys and girls. Similarly, one would expect a pastor of a retirement community to focus on different issues than the pastor of a military base. What’s absurd about that exactly?

Why do tou claim thar the pope has not been teaching the poor, ie his teachings are not intended for their ears? You are convinced this is the case, I am not. Further, this arbitrary segmenting of people based on net worth is much different than a natural difference based on sex or age. You point seems to be : the pope’s teachings specifically exclude the poor? Why? Has he said that?

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

It seems like pope Francis is saying that we need to help the poor not only with food and essentials but also help elevate them in our world to put them on an equal footing with us, the rich, successful folk.

Then on the other hand it seems he is saying we can learn from their poverty to deimphasize material things and have more correct spiritual judgment when it comes to riches.

I think that is pretty accurate. Notice that all of this seems directed at the rich.

Basically, he wants the field to be leveled. It dosen’t seem he has a plan how this is to be carried out except thru the motive of christian charity.

What I do not see in his letter is the answer to: how has he proposed anything different that hasen’t already be proposed by any other pope? I don’t really see anything new, but just a reemphasis on the poor. Not that there is anything wrong with this.

The pope should really not be giving detailed instructions on how, that is the domain of prudence for the laity to discover. Popes are not experts in all matters.

By the way, he really does have a big winning smile. I think all of us could learn something from that. We have Lutheran friends who commented about that to us.

I think it would be fair to say that he is a genuinely happy man. Perhaps he can give the Dali Lama a run for his money.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Why do tou claim thar the pope has not been teaching the poor, ie his teachings are not intended for their ears? You are convinced this is the case, I am not. Further, this arbitrary segmenting of people based on net worth is much different than a natural difference based on sex or age. You point seems to be : the pope’s teachings specifically exclude the poor? Why? Has he said that?

Because it makes no sense, among other things, to tell the poor to give to the poor.

Also, from what some had said about him, I had assumed he had grown up poor and had been a pastor of a poor diocese at some point. Neither was the case.

 

[AmosTown]

I have begun to ponder the question: What is Pope Francis teaching the poor? What is Pope Francis telling us to teach the poor?

Pope Francis’ love of the poor is widely understood as is his call in Evangelii Gaudium to aid the poor. According to Pope Francis, the poor are the central focus of the Church and the Church is in large part a teaching institution.

So I am wondering: what is Pope Francis teaching the poor?

(Citations from Evangelii Gaudium would be most appreciated.)

Liberation theology to both rich and poor??? OR is he teaching BE READY to do exactly as Peter’s Roman church:

And the multitude of believers had but one heart and one soul. Neither did any one say that aught of the things which he possessed was his own: but all things were common unto them.

• Acts 4:32

 

[tafan]

Because it makes no sense, among other things, to tell the poor to give to the poor.

.

Well, I will first say, it makes perfect sense to me.

But, is that all you thing the pipe has said. Lets start with the first paragraph of the document you requested references from:

“1. The joy of the gospel fills the hearts and lives of all who encounter Jesus. Those who accept his offer of salvation are set free from sin, sorrow, inner emptiness and loneliness. With Christ joy is constantly born anew. In this Exhortation I wish to encourage the Christian faithful to embark upon a new chapter of evangelization marked by this joy, while pointing out new paths for the Church’s journey in years to come.”

Why do you think the poor are excluded from this teaching? Do you think they have not encountered Jesus, or perhaps you do not consider the poor to be part of the Christian faithful?
If on the other hand, you think this paragraph is intended for the poor, then this whole thread is pointless ( which would be my position)

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Well, I will first say, it makes perfect sense to me.
But, is that all you thing the pipe has said. Lets start with the first paragraph of the document you requested references from:…
Why do you think the poor are excluded from this teaching? Do you think they have not encountered Jesus, or perhaps you do not consider the poor to be part of the Christian faithful?
If on the other hand, you think this paragraph is intended for the poor, then this whole thread is pointless ( which would be my position)

You say it makes sense and then change the subject. How does it make sense to teach the poor to give to the poor?

(Regarding the first paragraph, the fact that there are general subjects that include the poor does not negate the question.)

 

[tafan]

You say it makes sense and then change the subject. How does it make sense to teach the poor to give to the poor?

(Regarding the first paragraph, the fact that there are general subjects that include the poor does not negate the question.)

You made a statement which was nonsense, IMO, so I thought I should point that out. But it was the change of subject and I did not want to divert the conversation from my main argument, so I got back on point. To that end again:

I specifically showed that the document is addressed to all of the Christian faithful by quoting the very first paragraph. That cannot be disputed. So unless you are claiming the poor are excluded from the Christain faithful, you must acknowledge the pope has been teaching the poor. Period, end of story. It is that simple.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

You made a statement which was nonsense, IMO, so I thought I should point that out. But it was the change of subject and I did not want to divert the conversation from my main argument, so I got back on point. To that end again:

I specifically showed that the document is addressed to all of the Christian faithful by quoting the very first paragraph. That cannot be disputed. So unless you are claiming the poor are excluded from the Christain faithful, you must acknowledge the pope has been teaching the poor. Period, end of story. It is that simple.

If that answer satisfied you then pax vobiscum.

I am satisfied with the answer I discovered here, that Pope Francis was never poor and never a pastor to the poor and there was no reason to expect him to direct his teaching to the poor. Yes, the poor are obviously included in his address on general subjects. But there is nothing teaching the poor in the manner that he is teaching the rich.

To use your “insulting” analogy, he is lecturing the family and he is lecturing the big kids directly but never the little ones.

 

[glendab]

I don’t claim to have read everything he has written much less heard everything he has said. But so far, what I have found is consistent with my original observation and nobody has offered anything to contradict it. We may all be missing something…but maybe not.

Hey there again Bubba. I’m not missing anything at all. I get a daily dispatch from Rome through a place called Zenit.org They are very good at sending the Holy Father’s words to me. Perhaps you could try it. If you go there you can read through much of what the Holy Father has said in their archives. They are a very Catholic place to say the least. It should help you with your dilemma.

Glenda

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Hey there again Bubba. I’m not missing anything at all. I get a daily dispatch from Rome through a place called Zenit.org They are very good at sending the Holy Father’s words to me. Perhaps you could try it. If you go there you can read through much of what the Holy Father has said in their archives. They are a very Catholic place to say the least. It should help you with your dilemma.

Thank you! Looks like a great information source.

 

[larsont7]

Interesting thread, and even after 56 responses, no one has really answered Bubba’s question. It would seem that the majority of what our Holy Father has spoken of during his brief reign as Supreme Pontiff has been about the poor, but not directed to the poor.

I don’t know exactly where Bubba was going with his line of questioning, but what I would like to hear more of from Pope Francis is what we as Catholics can do to help the poor achieve eternal salvation. What does it profit the poor to feed them, clothe them, and shelter them if we do not teach them the means of eternal life with Our Lord? How do we go about converting the poor and getting them to the Sacraments? How do we free the poor who are entrenched in sin (drugs, prostitution, criminal activity, etc.) from these evils and bring them to repentance?

Feeding, clothing, and sheltering the poor will help us merit graces, but will only help the poor if we *also *instruct them in the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic faith. I’m guessing Pope Francis has spoken of these things at one time or another (either as Pope or Cardinal), but I have not seen them. It would seem that his primary focus throughout the infancy of his papacy has been about temporal matters (economics, youth unemployment, social justice, etc.) and less about spiritual matters (eternal salvation).

My hope is that our Holy Father is just getting started, and that he will soon begin to address these moral issues that are leading so many souls to eternal damnation and give us the means to prevent that from happening.

 

[Abu]

Avila123 quoted:
“This is why I want a Church which is poor and for the poor. They have much to teach us. Not only do they share in the sensus fidei, but in their difficulties they know the suffering Christ. We need to let ourselves be evangelized by them.”

As we have the poor in spirit as well as the poor materially, and they are not mutually exclusive, how can we be evangelized by anyone unless they can teach us the Way, the Truth and the Life?

Jesus did not condemn the rich, or the poor. He condemned miserliness, and He praised the production of wealth and the wise use of talents. In all difficulties we can come to know the suffering of Christ, but will we?

We share in the sensus fidei only when we assent to the doctrinal teaching of the Magisterium.

The poor can be helped materially only when wealth is produced which can be shared, and spiritually only when we know and can share of the riches of Christ.