What is Pope Francis teaching the poor?

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AVILA123, the quotes you posted have clarified everything to me, thanks. 👍
 
In my opinion, Pope Francis is setting the stage for the next phase of understanding. By concentrating on the poor in the world, there is left a vacuum within the supernatural aspects of our faith. I think within the near future, we can expect something remarkable on the other side of our faith spectrum. :). I’m excited!

Like waves moving in and out.
The rising and retracting tide.
The sun moving up and down.
The seasons becoming hot then cold.

…the natural law finding its connection to the eternal law.
 
What you posted sounds so good! I too am excited about our Pope and the way He is responding to the Holy Spirit!
 
Avila123 said:
I suggest that you read Evangli Gaudium (vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/apost_exhortations/documents/papa-francesco_esortazione-ap_20131124_evangelii-gaudium_en.html#II.%E2%80%82The_inclusion_of_the_poor_in_society) where Pope Francis advocates on behalf of the poor. He teaches to the poor through living and speaking the faith, others go out to the most miserable parts of the world and start schools and hospitals etc. The Church provides more schools than any other organisation in the world. I have put a couple of quotes from Evangli Gaudium below. The most interesting (to my mind) is the fact that Pope Francis actually said we have much to learn from the poor (I underlined and in bold).

As one poster said, the Pope (and the Church) teaches the same message to all. I am getting confused about the purpose of your question given that people have answered it from different angles but unless you elaborate, we are not going to understand what you really mean by it.
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Yes, your quotations are consistent with my reading of it. Throughout Evangli Gaudium he is talking to the rich about the poor. He described Evangli Gaudium as an exhortation, like a sermon. I imagine it as if he were giving a sermon in a big cathedral in a rich diocese. The pews are filled with rich families. There are no poor in attendance, they are at a different church on the other side of town. If there are, by accident, any poor in attendance they might as well be sleeping through the sermon. He is not talkng to them.

I intentionally framed the question broadly. I thought perhaps I had missed something in my less than careful reading of Evangli Gaudium.

I intend now to find some of his biographies and look for answers there but I am not confident of finding anything different. I know from what I’ve found on the internet that he did not grow up poor. He has never served as a pastor of a poor diocese. He has always lived and worked among those of ability and means who, at most, have chosen a life of poverty.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
Yes, your quotations are consistent with my reading of it. Throughout Evangli Gaudium he is talking to the rich about the poor. He described Evangli Gaudium as an exhortation, like a sermon. I imagine it as if he were giving a sermon in a big cathedral in a rich diocese. The pews are filled with rich families. There are no poor in attendance, they are at a different church on the other side of town. If there are, by accident, any poor in attendance they might as well be sleeping through the sermon. He is not talkng to them.

I intentionally framed the question broadly. I thought perhaps I had missed something in my less than careful reading of Evangli Gaudium.

I intend now to find some of his biographies and look for answers there but I am not confident of finding anything different. I know from what I’ve found on the internet that he did not grow up poor. He has never served as a pastor of a poor diocese. He has always lived and worked among those of ability and means who, at most, have chosen a life of poverty.
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I am not sure of your sources but thanks to another poster I can immediately offer one glimpse into his life as a Bishop washingtonpost.com/world/…888_story.html and I am sure that you will discover that many of his parishioners were poor (physically and/or spiritually). I would add that just because someone has a materially comfortable life, doesn’t mean they do not, or cannot help the poor e.g. St Nicholas. When I say help the poor, I mean by treating everyone with respect and dignity and finding ways to help and not just tossing money at them.

Now that we understand where you are coming from, I am sure that many helpful CAF members will be able to give you links to help you discover more about Pope Francis.
:blessyou:
 
Avila123 said:
I am not sure of your sources but thanks to another poster I can immediately offer one glimpse into his life as a Bishop washingtonpost.com/world/…888_story.html and I am sure that you will discover that many of his parishioners were poor (physically and/or spiritually). I would add that just because someone has a materially comfortable life, doesn’t mean they do not, or cannot help the poor e.g. St Nicholas. When I say help the poor, I mean by treating everyone with respect and dignity and finding ways to help and not just tossing money at them.

Now that we understand where you are coming from, I am sure that many helpful CAF members will be able to give you links to help you discover more about Pope Francis.
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This link is broken.
Avila123 said:
Here is another source you might like to consider : From the Vatican Site: vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/biography/documents/papa-francesco-biografia-bergoglio_en.html
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Yes, he served various roles in the Argentine capital city of Buenos Aires culminating in archbishop. While I’m sure that there are plenty of poor in Buenos Aires it is not a poor province of Argentina and it is easy to imagine his sermons there also being to the rich about the poor. In fact, Buenos Aires being the capital of Argentina, I’m sure that the government was an important part of his audience.
 
Avila123 said:
Sorry about the first link. I’ll try again. washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/ap-photos-argentine-slum-honors-blue-virgin/2013/12/12/9a0f37e6-62eb-11e3-af0d-4bb80d704888_story.html

I think that you will discover that the Pope wasn’t popular with the government due to his irritating habit of speaking up for the poor and upholding the teachings of the Church
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Thank you. While this does not answer my primary question, it does indicate where I should look for an answer.

Frankly, I would shudder to think that any pope would be popular with his home government. It’s ironic that his parents fled fascism in Italy into Peronism in Argentina.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
As a parent I would put that way down on my list of responsibilities. First and formost my teaching is directed at my children.
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As a parent, it would depend. If my family was destitute and my children were cold and starving, fixing that situation would take priority over just about anything.

I believe that you are American (after all, you go by “Bubba”). Americans don’t understand poverty. Most of us have never seen it. Our “poor” people often have color TVs (an average of 2.1 per household for families below the federal poverty line), drive cars, and eat three meals a day.

Most Americans have never actually seen, with their own eyes, emaciated children. This is a common sight in many parts of the world. This is poverty.

Pope Francis is doing triage. He’s identifying the people who need the most help, and doing what he can to provide it. He sees the Church in crisis, and is operating in crisis mode.
 
DavidFilmer said:
As a parent, it would depend. If my family was destitute and my children were cold and starving, fixing that situation would take priority over just about anything.

I believe that you are American (after all, you go by “Bubba”). Americans don’t understand poverty. Most of us have never seen it. Our “poor” people often have color TVs (an average of 2.1 per household for families below the federal poverty line), drive cars, and eat three meals a day.

Most Americans have never actually seen, with their own eyes, emaciated children. This is a common sight in many parts of the world. This is poverty.

Pope Francis is doing triage. He’s identifying the people who need the most help, and doing what he can to provide it. He sees the Church in crisis, and is operating in crisis mode.
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I do think you make some valid points. It has been pointed out by others more eloquent than I that there are qualitative differences between what we Americans call poverty and that of other nations (and times). I have traveled enough internationally to have seen it myself.

What I have concluded is that Pope Francis is, and has always been, a benefactor to the poor, not a pastor to the poor as I had originally thought. There are important differences between the two roles.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
What I have concluded is that Pope Francis is, and has always been, a benefactor to the poor, not a pastor to the poor as I had originally thought.
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It is possible to be both (and even at the same time). But, remember, the poor have pastors - there are MANY good and devout priests and Bishops who minister to them, but with very limited resources. Human psychology implies that the poor ought to be the most resentful of God, and the rich ought to be the most grateful. But human experience clearly shows us that this is largely reversed. So it seems that the poor are being more effectively served pastoralilly, and the pastoral “gap” is with the more-fortunate. That ought to be the focus of the Pope’s attention. How many of these effective Bishops of poor congregations spend 43 MILLION DOLLARS renovating their homes?

How many people think nothing of spending three or four dollars each morning for a cup of coffee, when this is more than most people on earth will earn to support ALL of their families needs?

I took my wife to dinner last night. The bill was $21. I added a tip, and the total was $25. No big deal for me - I have spent far more for a single meal for two. But, for many families around the world, this would feed them for a WEEK. Pope Francis is not talking to THEM, he is talking to US. He has compelled ME to reassess my personal priorities.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
I won’t fault you for your suspicion but why not indulge the question? Do you think it an unworthy or improper question?
…
I can safely say that I find many opportunities to give advice and instruction in my daily activities, particularly when I encounter others with less experience in various subjects. But I have never tried my hand at teaching the poor.
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I deleted a good portion of your post and encourage others to go back and read it. I hope my answer will not be out of context.

I think the Pope is teaching the poor to HOPE. He is articulating our relationships with each other, with the planet, and within our individual countries/environment. Hope for the more developed countries to develop their sense of responsibility, hope for the less developed countries to be assisted to develop and to be able to provide employment/work for their people. Globalization is happening in business, perhaps it is time for it to happen in the politico national spheres.
 
DavidFilmer said:
Most Americans have never actually seen, with their own eyes, emaciated children. This is a common sight in many parts of the world. This is poverty.
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I should have added that the greatest health risk of the American “poor” is obesity. How many other nations can make this claim? How many other nations are worried that their “poor people” are overly fat?

Pope Francis is not particularly concerned with the American poor, but more with the worldwide condition. He does not see national boarders, but human people who have all been redeemed by the Sacrifice of Calvary.
 
Furthermore I think the Pope is calling us to love the poor as God loves them, to embrace them as our brothers and sisters in Christ - not pat ourselves on the back for “creating wealth” and then throwing them a dime while we hold our nose and disparage them for being fat, or thin, or lazy, or boorish, or demanding, or lacking initiative, or feeling entitled, or having too many kids, or carrying diseases, or being crackheads and meth addicts, or not pulling themselves up by their bootstraps, or whatever else. Implicit in a lot of discussion is that the poor are poor primarily because of their own bad choices, and that the wealthy are morally superior. Thank you God that I am not like those sinners; I fast and I pay my tithes, etc. The Pope is calling the wealthy away from that attitude.
DavidFilmer said:
I should have added that the greatest health risk of the American “poor” is obesity. How many other nations can make this claim? How many other nations are worried that their “poor people” are overly fat?
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PS If other nations subsidized the raw ingredients of junk food the way we do, to the point that junk food is the cheapest and easiest source of calories, yes they would have fat poor people too.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
I do think you make some valid points. It has been pointed out by others more eloquent than I that there are qualitative differences between what we Americans call poverty and that of other nations (and times). I have traveled enough internationally to have seen it myself.

What I have concluded is that Pope Francis is, and has always been, a benefactor to the poor, not a pastor to the poor as I had originally thought. There are important differences between the two roles.
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I would suggest you look up the mist common meaning of the word benefactor, and then consider that the Pope is a Jesuit, and therefore a man of poverty, and you would see your conclusion is wrong.

The premise of this thread seems to be that none of the pope’s teachings apply to the poor unless he specifically addresses them. To use the OP’s analogy, it is as if I have two age groups of children in my family: teens and toddlers. Obviously most, if not all, of my teaching of teens would not be well understood by my toddlers. So to teach them, I have to address them directly with age appropriate instructions.

I see no other way of interpreting the OP’s position. It seems insulting, in the extreme, to the poor.
 
tafan said:
I would suggest you look up the mist common meaning of the word benefactor, and then consider that the Pope is a Jesuit, and therefore a man of poverty, and you would see your conclusion is wrong.

The premise of this thread seems to be that none of the pope’s teachings apply to the poor unless he specifically addresses them. To use the OP’s analogy, it is as if I have two age groups of children in my family: teens and toddlers. Obviously most, if not all, of my teaching of teens would not be well understood by my toddlers. So to teach them, I have to address them directly with age appropriate instructions.

I see no other way of interpreting the OP’s position. It seems insulting, in the extreme, to the poor.
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I’m having a hard time following your logic here. If I seperate my children to give them age-appropriate lectures (potty training vs. sex education, say), I don’t think I’m insulting either.

One reason that we have bishops and pastors in addition to a pope is because there are differences among people. Not only do the rich and poor face different problems and have different needs, the poor in one place have different needs than those in another place, as was noted in the post I was replying to (and several others).

The word benefactor has a more general meaning than simply donating money. See e.g.:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefactor_(law. Whether or not “benefactor” is the most appropriate word, the distinciton I drew is a real one. Interestingly, the only quotations of Pope Francis so far offered in this thread confirm my observation.

Yes, Pope Francis is a Jesuit who took a vow of poverty. But that’s not the same as growing up poor or being the pastor of a poor diocese. If you with to crucify me for making simple observations, go right ahead.
 
I am not sure what the Pope is up to.
No doubt he is passing on the same message to all of us, which includes:
Matt 25:31-46
“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
I’m having a hard time following your logic here. If I seperate my children to give them age-appropriate lectures (potty training vs. sex education, say), I don’t think I’m insulting either.

One reason that we have bishops and pastors in addition to a pope is because there are differences among people. Not only do the rich and poor face different problems and have different needs, the poor in one place have different needs than those in another place, as was noted in the post I was replying to (and several others).

The word benefactor has a more general meaning than simply donating money. See e.g.:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefactor_(law. Whether or not “benefactor” is the most appropriate word, the distinciton I drew is a real one. Interestingly, the only quotations of Pope Francis so far offered in this thread confirm my observation.

Yes, Pope Francis is a Jesuit who took a vow of poverty. But that’s not the same as growing up poor or being the pastor of a poor diocese. If you with to crucify me for making simple observations, go right ahead.
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Yes, teaching your children in an age appropriate manner is not insulting, but applying that same logic to the poor is insulting. Of course I would not deny that at times Popes, Bishops, and Priests provide teachings directly targeted at specific groups due to various needs of the Church. But much of the Pope’s teachings are targeted to the universal Church, not any specific group in specific. However, your position is that the poor are like your toddlers, they are only being taught if they are being specifically addressed with teachings that can only apply to them. It is insulting (in the extreme,IMO) to the poor to state that the Pope’s teachings do not apply to them.

As to the meaning of the word benefactor: please note that I stated the common meaning of the word. In its most common sense, it means someone who provides money. But that is a side issue. If you want to say that the Pope is a benefactor of the poor: great, I have no problem with that.

But when you say the pope is not teaching the poor or is not a pastor to the poor, that is a horribly wrong thing to say.
 
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