What is Protestantism?

[linuxgeek71]

Well, since you have defined “protestant” please define “heretical” for me so I can get a better picture of what you consider me to be. Thanks.

Schism is the denial that the Bishop of Rome has authority over all the Church. Heresy is denial of any other doctrine or dogma of the Catholic Church. Generally a group is not considered heretical if they deny doctrine or dogmas formally defined after their schism, eg. Eastern Orthodox.

 

[With_Questions]

Can you please give an example or two of postive tenants? I think helping us out might help narrow the focus. Thanks.

That is exactly what I am looking for.

I can list the tenets of the Catholic faith that define uniquely Catholicism. At least I can within my knowledge of Catholicism. I am sure that Catholics can do this better.

Since Catholics seem to want to use the word Protestantism, I just wonder what the tenets of the Protestant faith are that uniquely identify Protestants. If these can not be identified, I wonder why the word Protestantism is even used.

 

[With_Questions]

A term used to mean that the denomination in question is not a part of the Catholic Church. Generally it is used to describe denominations that can, in some way, be traced back to the Reformation. Older churches like the Eastern Orthodox are not referred to as Protestants.

Groups like the Jehova’s Witnesses and the Mormons who don’t have links back to the Reformation aren’t generally called Protestants, either.

Wouldn’t this be the word Protestant? As I can say, I understand the word Protestant and can generally accept this definition of it.

What I do not understand is the word Protestantism.

 

[Hisalone]

It is an over used overrated word that many Catholics use to describe what they either deny or do not understand.

Protestantism is an affirmation on the supremacy of the word of God.

 

[linuxgeek71]

It seems to me that by adding the suffix “ism” to Protestant you are changing the meaning to a belief system. Just as Catholicism is the belief system of the stream of Christianity known as Catholic.

I think your confusion may be coming from not understanding the meaning of ‘ism’. It does not imply a specific rigid belief system. This same suffix is used for political movements, actions, and characteristics. The reformation was an action of protest, what protestantism literally means. So the word is today used to denote groups that trace their lineage back to this moment because they are, in effect, continuing the movement of protest.

 

[linuxgeek71]

Protestantism is an affirmation on the supremacy of the word of God.

There are protestants that deny authority to scripture, eg social gospel. So your definition doesn’t cover common usage of the word.

 

[With_Questions]

Just to clarify one thing that might help you understand where I am coming from.

There is an interesting thread on justification a couple of weeks back which is now in thread heaven.

In this thread, a Catholic put forth the proposition that certain elements of justification that He disagreed with were a part of Protestantism.

One tenet is that there is no such thing as “objective good”.

Another tenet was that God the father was actively pouring out His wrath on God the son on the cross.

I found it curious that these were tenets of “Protestantism” that I for one have never heard of. But yet these were tenets of “Protestantism”.

Well after letting that one float around in my mind for a while, I have concluded that I apparantly really do not know what Protestantism is. Hence I am asking the question.

 

[With_Questions]

There are protestants that deny authority to scripture, eg social gospel. So your definition doesn’t cover common usage of the word.

Agreed.

Any tenet of Protestantism must be common to all Protestants.

 

[With_Questions]

I think your confusion may be coming from not understanding the meaning of ‘ism’. It does not imply a specific rigid belief system. This same suffix is used for political movements, actions, and characteristics. The reformation was an action of protest, what protestantism literally means. So the word is today used to denote groups that trace their lineage back to this moment because they are, in effect, continuing the movement of protest.

Then what is the difference between Protestant and Protestantism?

I would use the word Protestant to denote groups that trace their lineage back to the Reformation.

It is the same distinction as exists between Catholic and Catholicism.

 

[linuxgeek71]

Then what is the difference between Protestant and Protestantism?

I would use the word Protestant to denote groups that trace their lineage back to the Reformation.

It is the same distinction as exists between Catholic and Catholicism.

Protestantism is used to collectively denote all groups you call Protestant. As an example, Baptists are Protestant, Baptists are part of Protestantism. You wouldn’t say Baptists are Protestantism. To say someone follows Protestantism is only to say that there exists some Protestant group this person belongs to or this person traces his own beliefs back to the reformers.

 

[With_Questions]

Protestantism is used to collectively denote all groups you call Protestant. As an example, Baptists are Protestant, Baptists are part of Protestantism. You wouldn’t say Baptists are Protestantism. To say someone follows Protestantism is only to say that there exists some Protestant group this person belongs to or this person traces his own beliefs back to the reformers.

OK.

If you want to use the word in that way, I won’t stop you.

However I don’t think the relationship Protestant is to Protestantism as Catholic is to Catholicism is upheld when you use it that way. But maybe I am nitpicking.

However, in these forums it does seem that Protestantism is used in the sense of a belief system common to all Protestants.

Besides the thread on justification that I cited, I have learned on these forums that “Sola Scriptura” and “Sola Fide” are tenets of Protestantism. I probably can come up with more, but these two stick out.

So if the word Protestantism is used in this way, I wonder what exactly are the tenets of Protestantism that are common to all Protestants while at the same time uniquely identify Protestants.

If no such tenets are found, then it seems to me the word Protestantism at best is being abused and should only be used in the manner in which you propose.

 

[Tomster]

Really?

Which Protestant denominations have these tenets in their statements of faith?

Since I afford you the courtesy of defining your beliefs for yourself and not turning to Jack Chick to tell me what you believe, I would insist that you do the same.

Surely. Again, I posted this yesterday on another thread. All that we know of Protestant culture points to its heavy emphasis on the subjective side of the Christian religion. Different churches had different orientations, but the general trend was the same. The “out-going” Catholic ritual centered in the Mass and directed to God was replaced by the “in-taking” sermon for the people; external forms of worship were removed in favor of internal meditation; interest in promoting the apostolate became an exclusive concern for one’s own destiny; doing good for others under the counsels turned into preoccupation with sin and the assurance that a believer was one of the saved. Where Catholicism made obedience to ecclesiastical authority one of the marks of a Christian, the Reformers assured their disciples that no society, however ancient and professedly divine, has a right to stand between the soul and her Creator. Where Catholic theology insisted on good works, and the practice of virtue and mortification, Protestants were told to rely entirely on faith; and where the Church required sacraments as a condition for grace, the Reformers dispensed with these ordinances, even with Baptism, as a means of salvation.

But if Protestantism were sustained by subjectivism or negative elements only, it would have passed out of history long ago. It has positive and objective features, too, which are not properly its own but borrowed or derived from the Catholic religion. Mysteries of faith like the Incarnation and the Redemption, principles of Christian morality and methods of church government, ritual customs, forms of worship and even a Catholic vocabulary have entered into the stream of Protestantism to give whatever vitality the inheritors of the Reformation still possess after centuries of separation from their common source.

 

[linuxgeek71]

OK.

If you want to use the word in that way, I won’t stop you.

However I don’t think the relationship Protestant is to Protestantism as Catholic is to Catholicism is upheld when you use it that way. But maybe I am nitpicking.

However, in these forums it does seem that Protestantism is used in the sense of a belief system common to all Protestants.

Besides the thread on justification that I cited, I have learned on these forums that “Sola Scriptura” and “Sola Fide” are tenets of Protestantism. I probably can come up with more, but these two stick out.

So if the word Protestantism is used in this way, I wonder what exactly are the tenets of Protestantism that are common to all Protestants while at the same time uniquely identify Protestants.

If no such tenets are found, then it seems to me the word Protestantism at best is being abused and should only be used in the manner in which you propose.

So I take it what you are truly looking for is when I meet a Protestant what do I immediately think they believe? This is a very different question from what is, in actuality, Protestantism. If you look at the history of protestants and consider any and all beliefs even vaguely called Christianity you will find at least one protestant that has held each belief.

When I think of Protestantism i think of ‘Sola Scriptura.’ denial of the intercessory power of saints, and ‘Sola Fide.’ But this is just from experience. There are no tenants of Protestantism except ‘the Catholic Church is wrong in claiming to exclusively poses the fullness of revealed truth.’ So I think you are trying too hard to define something that doesn’t concretely exist.

 

[With_Questions]

There are no tenants of Protestantism except ‘the Catholic Church is wrong in claiming to exclusively poses the fullness of revealed truth.’ So I think you are trying too hard to define something that doesn’t concretely exist.

Exactly.

And I am not even sure that is a tenet of Protestantism. I could believe that I suppose and still be a Protestant. After all there is no Protestant ecclesiastical organization that would enforce my heretical Protestant belief.

It just doesn’t make any sense to do so.

But it sure seems to me on these forums that a lot of Catholics use the word Protestantism as a belief system that contains a set of tenets. I guess what I am asking is for those Catholics who use the word in this way is to tell me what these tenets are that are common to all Protestants yet uniquely identify Protestants.

If they can not come up with these tenets, then I have a modest proposal that the word Protestantism is being abused and this abuse should stop.

 

[With_Questions]

Surely. Again, I posted this yesterday on another thread. All that we know of Protestant culture points to its heavy emphasis on the subjective side of the Christian religion. Different churches had different orientations, but the general trend was the same. The “out-going” Catholic ritual centered in the Mass and directed to God was replaced by the “in-taking” sermon for the people; external forms of worship were removed in favor of internal meditation; interest in promoting the apostolate became an exclusive concern for one’s own destiny; doing good for others under the counsels turned into preoccupation with sin and the assurance that a believer was one of the saved. Where Catholicism made obedience to ecclesiastical authority one of the marks of a Christian, the Reformers assured their disciples that no society, however ancient and professedly divine, has a right to stand between the soul and her Creator. Where Catholic theology insisted on good works, and the practice of virtue and mortification, Protestants were told to rely entirely on faith; and where the Church required sacraments as a condition for grace, the Reformers dispensed with these ordinances, even with Baptism, as a means of salvation.

But if Protestantism were sustained by subjectivism or negative elements only, it would have passed out of history long ago. It has positive and objective features, too, which are not properly its own but borrowed or derived from the Catholic religion. Mysteries of faith like the Incarnation and the Redemption, principles of Christian morality and methods of church government, ritual customs, forms of worship and even a Catholic vocabulary have entered into the stream of Protestantism to give whatever vitality the inheritors of the Reformation still possess after centuries of separation from their common source.

So is this belief is common to all Protestants?

Or are you just telling us what we believe?

 

[Contarini]

OK. Good to get a definition.

But wouldn’t the word really be Protestant as opposed to Protestantism. I can understand the word Protestant.

It seems to me that by adding the suffix “ism” to Protestant you are changing the meaning to a belief system.

I think you are putting too much ideological weight on a suffix!
We speak of “Hinduism,” even though “Hinduism” is really defined historically and culturally rather than ideologically (I’ve met a Hindu who said that reincarnation was not an important belief for her, for instance). In both Hinduism and Protestantism we can make generalizations that hold good for the most part, but in both cases these generalizations are risky.

And I wouldn’t describe Catholicism as primarily a belief system either. I would describe it as a historical tradition/community. Generally the trend in contemporary scholarship is toward recognizing the diversity of all human movements and the difficulty of speaking about abstract “belief systems” rather than specific ideas and practices. And I think this is generally a halthy trend.

Edwin

 

[Drilling4Truth]

I think you’re looking for a commonality within non-Catholic Christian churches that simply isn’t there. As I said, in protestantism you have a relativistic view of religion. Meaning all religious belief is relative. So, the commonality you’re seeking is the fact that there is no commonality.

 

[linuxgeek71]

If they can not come up with these tenets, then I have a modest proposal that the word Protestantism is being abused and this abuse should stop.

It is understandable why you would want this but I also feel it is too much to ask. A lot of debate goes on in this forum. Debate depends on both sides knowing what it is the other believes. It is often impossible to debate a doctrine without referencing other doctrines. So we (Catholics that is) must make assumptions about what you believe. You are free to correct us, or even list your beliefs in your signature.

 

[1edyson]

Since that word is bandied about quite a bit here, I thought I might ask a stupid question. What exactly is Protestantism?

I see where you’re coming from distinguishing the difference between the word Protestant and Protestantism. From what you’ve gathered and read so far, what kind of stab would you give if any to the definition of it?

Drilling4Truth:

I think you're looking for a commonality within non-Catholic Christian churches that simply isn't there. As I said, in protestantism you have a relativistic view of religion. Meaning all religious belief is relative. So, the commonality you're seeking is the fact that there is no commonality.

Re-reading the OP’s question and subsequent responses I would tend to agree with you.

 

[Tomster]

I think you’re looking for a commonality within non-Catholic Christian churches that simply isn’t there. As I said, in protestantism you have a relativistic view of religion. Meaning all religious belief is relative. So, the commonality you’re seeking is the fact that there is no commonality.

Which reveals the lack of unity, one of the four marks of the true Church, within Protestantism. It is interesting that some Protestant churches adhere to the Nicene Creed but are not united with other Protestant churches. This is the consequence of the Protestant dogma of private judgement.