What is so wrong with the hymn "Gift of Finest Wheat"?

[Ridgerunner]

The words “Gift of Finest Wheat” come from psalm 80(81). Used for the Introit on Trinity Sunday:

“Cibavit eos, ex adipe frumenti, alleluia et de petra melle saturavit eos, alleluia, alleluia, alleluia”, translated in a modern translation (New revised standard version, Catholic edition) to: “I would feed you with the finest of the wheat, and with honey from the rock I would satisfy you.” (not including the alleluias). Also in the Saint Gall antiphonary (9th Century). I can’t speak about the rest of the hymn (haven’t seen the words) but clearly the author was inspired by the palms which of course form the core of the Propers for the mass.

One can quibble about the translation. One can quibble about the rest of the lyrics. One can quibble about the melody. But the psalm verse itself is timeless.

I don’t think the message of the psalm is quite the same as in the song. But whatever.

My complaint was with the melody. What I can’t understand is why the hymnal publishers (who I guess are paid by the various dioceses) arrested in about 1984 or so. There was obviously a huge number of hymns written in the 1970s and early 1980s. Some are singable and good. Some are of indifferent quality. Some are really awful. Why, I wonder, has nobody written anything new, and why do we preserve the 1970s/1980s archive in the churches? I would think there would be some vault somewhere where they could be stored under “music/folk-like/church/English/1970s-1980s”. Perhaps one out of 100 or so could be retained in hymnals, selected by people (not church employees over the age of 60) who really are musical experts.

 

[Holly3278]

Theological understanding?
When you sing “Gift of Finest Wheat” and are about to receive the Body, blood, soul and divinity of our Lord, do you have the understanding that it is still Wheat (finest) or that the change has occurred although still under the appearance of Bread and Wine?

Some of these I rank as good, better and best at what we believe (theological understanding).

It is a beautiful melody. Not my favorite as we, Catholics, have a deeper understanding and belief of the Body and Blood of Christ in communion.

I definitely believe that the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. The wheat and wine no longer exist. The substance is Jesus Christ whole and entire.

That said, the main complaint I heard about the song is that it is theologically inaccurate. The person didn’t elaborate though and I can’t remember where I saw the comment so I can’t go back and ask for clarification.

 

[OraLabora]

I don’t think the message of the psalm is quite the same as in the song. But whatever.

I think the message of the psalm depends on whether you read it from the perspective of Jewish or Christian revelation. Many psalm verses are seen to be prophecies of Christian revelation.

 

[27lw]

Also,
the phrase “Come give to us, O saving Lord, the bread of life to eat” is jarring somehow.

It just seems, I don’t know, rude. Gimme, gimme! I think better-phrased hymns have a higher level of formality, maybe? Gratitude, awe? Not just “give me!”.

 

[Sarabande]

I don’t think the message of the psalm is quite the same as in the song. But whatever.

My complaint was with the melody. What I can’t understand is why the hymnal publishers (who I guess are paid by the various dioceses) arrested in about 1984 or so. There was obviously a huge number of hymns written in the 1970s and early 1980s. Some are singable and good. Some are of indifferent quality. Some are really awful. Why, I wonder, has nobody written anything new, and why do we preserve the 1970s/1980s archive in the churches? I would think there would be some vault somewhere where they could be stored under “music/folk-like/church/English/1970s-1980s”. Perhaps one out of 100 or so could be retained in hymnals, selected by people (not church employees over the age of 60) who really are musical experts.

The thing is, people are writing new hymns, mass settings, motets, etc… Some are still pretty bad. Some are actually very good, but they are not getting the promotion and marketing.

In regards to your last comment, I don’t know how that can be remedied when so often, real musical experts who actually might be in the parishes often get pushed aside for the preferences of those in charge, but have little to no formal musical training. You really need experts in music, liturgy AND theology to be doing the choosing. It can’t be an expert in just one field and have experts in various genres of music, but who also understand the inner workings of liturgy.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Also,
the phrase “Come give to us, O saving Lord, the bread of life to eat” is jarring somehow.

It just seems, I don’t know, rude. Gimme, gimme! I think better-phrased hymns have a higher level of formality, maybe? Gratitude, awe? Not just “give me!”.

Would you also consider “Give us this day our daily bread” rude and in the “Gimme, gimme” fashion?

 

[27lw]

Well, if the good Lord had written “Gift of Finest Wheat”, then it would be okay!
In the Lord’s Prayer, there is a whole list of petitions. “give us, deliver us”, etc. which are preceded by a lot of awe, I think.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The thing is, people are writing new hymns, mass settings, motets, etc… Some are still pretty bad. Some are actually very good, but they are not getting the promotion and marketing.

In regards to your last comment, I don’t know how that can be remedied when so often, real musical experts who actually might be in the parishes often get pushed aside for the preferences of those in charge, but have little to no formal musical training. You really need experts in music, liturgy AND theology to be doing the choosing. It can’t be an expert in just one field and have experts in various genres of music, but who also understand the inner workings of liturgy.

Please pardon my venting, but it has been my suspicion for some time that the block in updating hymnals consists in superannuated “spirit of Vatican II” people who just can’t part with the 1970s in any way, music being only one of them.

 

[ProVobis]

Hmm. Learn something new everyday. Thanks for the research.

pn, let’s be fair here. I’ll bet you can find some Biblical link in a lot of pop tunes, or at least of those around that time (70’s-80’s). Anyone who is familiar with stuff like “Turn, turn, turn” can tell you that.

 

[OraLabora]

Well, if the good Lord had written “Gift of Finest Wheat”, then it would be okay!
In the Lord’s Prayer, there is a whole list of petitions. “give us, deliver us”, etc. which are preceded by a lot of awe, I think.

Except that “Gift of Finest Wheat” is in a psalm, which is God-inspired and part of the Canon of the Bible.

pn, let’s be fair here. I’ll bet you can find some Biblical link in a lot of pop tunes, or at least of those around that time (70’s-80’s). Anyone who is familiar with stuff like “Turn, turn, turn” can tell you that.

Except that “Taste and See” is in a psalm, which is God-inspired, and part of the Canon of the Bible. Its use as a Eucharistic antiphon (“Gustate et videte”) has an awfully long history of 1000+ years. Gustate et videte translates into… taste and see!

Not sure if this is the “Taste and See” song that is being referred to:

Taste and see, taste and see
the goodness of the Lord.
O taste and see, taste and see
the goodness of the Lord, of the Lord.

I will bless the Lord at all times.
Praise shall always be on my lips;
my soul shall glory in the Lord
for God has been so good to me. (Refrain)

Glorify the Lord with me.
Together let us all praise God’s name.
I called the Lord who answered me;
from all my troubles I was set free. (Refrain)

Worship the Lord, all you people.
You’ll want for nothing if you ask.
Taste and see that the Lord is good;
in God we need put all our trust. (Refrain)

Compare it to Psalm 33(34)

I will bless the Lord at all times;
his praise shall continually be in my mouth.
2 My soul makes its boast in the Lord;
let the humble hear and be glad.
3 O magnify the Lord with me,
and let us exalt his name together.

4 I sought the Lord, and he answered me,
and delivered me from all my fears.
5 Look to him, and be radiant;
so your[a] faces shall never be ashamed.
6 This poor soul cried, and was heard by the Lord,
and was saved from every trouble.
7 The angel of the Lord encamps
around those who fear him, and delivers them.
8 O taste and see that the Lord is good;
happy are those who take refuge in him.
9 O fear the Lord, you his holy ones,
for those who fear him have no want.
10 The young lions suffer want and hunger,
but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing.

11 Come, O children, listen to me;
I will teach you the fear of the Lord.
12 Which of you desires life,
and covets many days to enjoy good?
13 Keep your tongue from evil,
and your lips from speaking deceit.
14 Depart from evil, and do good;
seek peace, and pursue it.

15 The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
and his ears are open to their cry.
16 The face of the Lord is against evildoers,
to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
17 When the righteous cry for help, the Lord hears,
and rescues them from all their troubles.
18 The Lord is near to the brokenhearted,
and saves the crushed in spirit.

19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
but the Lord rescues them from them all.
20 He keeps all their bones;
not one of them will be broken.
21 Evil brings death to the wicked,
and those who hate the righteous will be condemned.
22 The Lord redeems the life of his servants;
none of those who take refuge in him will be condemned.

This is thus a modern hymn lifted almost verbatim from the psalm, and used as a communion hymn. Many here bemoan that we do not use the Propers for modern liturgical music. This one comes as close to the Propers as any modern hymn can get. Nobody could call it theologically inappropriate, nor out of place as a communion hymn.

I do prefer the Gregorian chant version, but that’s just my personal taste.

 

[Sarabande]

Please pardon my venting, but it has been my suspicion for some time that the block in updating hymnals consists in superannuated “spirit of Vatican II” people who just can’t part with the 1970s in any way, music being only one of them.

No problem about the venting. Without going into it on my end, I think I completely understand. And it is what I was alluding to in my previous post. It’s not all of them who are in charge, but from my experience working in various parishes, that is what tends to happen. It is changing, now, though and I’ve really seen the change within the last 10 years. I think it is partly because that generation is basically retiring or, sorry to say, dying out. I used to be sad and angry about what these older generations did when I was younger, especially when I felt like I was lied to, but my generation (30s) is poised to be taking on the reigns and I have found with my colleagues around my age, guided by older generations who have not fallen into the group that you referred to and have struggled to stay alive in the Catholic church music world, they want the change. Many are wanting to reclaim our rich heritage of sacred music and along with them, you have others who want to discover and use new music. For my colleagues in their 30s and 40s who have since taken on music director positions, they are doing just that, although it is sometimes an upward struggle with pastors, councils and such who are of a certain age still stuck in the 70s and 80s. So, they have slowly brought it in with a mix.

Ok… well that was off-topic. Now, back on topic.

 

[Sarabande]

Except that “Gift of Finest Wheat” is in a psalm, which is God-inspired and part of the Canon of the Bible.

Except that “Taste and See” is in a psalm, which is God-inspired, and part of the Canon of the Bible. Its use as a Eucharistic antiphon (“Gustate et videte”) has an awfully long history of 1000+ years. Gustate et videte translates into… taste and see!

Not sure if this is the “Taste and See” song that is being referred to:

Compare it to Psalm 33(34)

This is thus a modern hymn lifted almost verbatim from the psalm, and used as a communion hymn. Many here bemoan that we do not use the Propers for modern liturgical music. This one comes as close to the Propers as any modern hymn can get. Nobody could call it theologically inappropriate, nor out of place as a communion hymn.

I do prefer the Gregorian chant version, but that’s just my personal taste.

Yes, while the music isn’t personally my taste, either, I have never found the words to either hymn theologically inappropriate. I also can think of much worse melodies or lyrics that could be employed.

 

[ProVobis]

This is thus a modern hymn lifted almost verbatim from the psalm, and used as a communion hymn.

That (and a lot of other hymns) may be but shouldn’t those hymns include Biblical credits?

There is none here except:

Writer(s): Ralph Vaughan Williams, Liturgical
Copyright: Oxford University Press
Lyrics powered by www.musiXmatch.com

songlyrics.com/paul-baloche/taste-and-see-lyrics/

 

[SMHW]

That (and a lot of other hymns) may be but shouldn’t those hymns include Biblical credits? %between%

I’m not where I can see a hymnal or sheet music but I know that many do give “Biblical credits”.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Well, if the good Lord had written “Gift of Finest Wheat”, then it would be okay!
In the Lord’s Prayer, there is a whole list of petitions. “give us, deliver us”, etc. which are preceded by a lot of awe, I think.

Since it was the “Lord” Who offered us His Body and Blood in the Eucharist, don’t you think that it is quite right for us to ask to receive this offering of the “Lord”?

Seems to me, referring to this as the “Gift of Finest Wheat” is actually quite apropos, seeing as this make any wheat into the “Gift of Finest Wheat”, seeing as it is God’s Gift to us of God in a Way that only God could do.

 

[Tom_Baum]

No problem about the venting. Without going into it on my end, I think I completely understand. And it is what I was alluding to in my previous post. It’s not all of them who are in charge, but from my experience working in various parishes, that is what tends to happen. It is changing, now, though and I’ve really seen the change within the last 10 years. I think it is partly because that generation is basically retiring or, sorry to say, dying out. I used to be sad and angry about what these older generations did when I was younger, especially when I felt like I was lied to, but my generation (30s) is poised to be taking on the reigns and I have found with my colleagues around my age, guided by older generations who have not fallen into the group that you referred to and have struggled to stay alive in the Catholic church music world, they want the change. Many are wanting to reclaim our rich heritage of sacred music and along with them, you have others who want to discover and use new music. For my colleagues in their 30s and 40s who have since taken on music director positions, they are doing just that, although it is sometimes an upward struggle with pastors, councils and such who are of a certain age still stuck in the 70s and 80s. So, they have slowly brought it in with a mix.

Ok… well that was off-topic. Now, back on topic.

Not to worry, if the world is still around in 30 or 40 years the people that are then in their 30’s will probably be saying pretty much the same thing as you, but about your generation instead of the generation you are speaking of.

I believe that you and others have referred to using the “experts”, have you ever noticed that God very seldom, if ever, chooses an “expert”?

 

[pnewton]

Well, if the good Lord had written “Gift of Finest Wheat”, then it would be okay!
In the Lord’s Prayer, there is a whole list of petitions. “give us, deliver us”, etc. which are preceded by a lot of awe, I think.

The Lord’s Prayer serves as a model, not a limitation to how we are to pray.

 

[pnewton]

pn, let’s be fair here. I’ll bet you can find some Biblical link in a lot of pop tunes, or at least of those around that time (70’s-80’s). Anyone who is familiar with stuff like “Turn, turn, turn” can tell you that.

I was referring to the antiquity in Catholic tradition, not the scripture reference.

 

[pnewton]

That (and a lot of other hymns) may be but shouldn’t those hymns include Biblical credits?
%between%

Yes. Great idea. Better yet, we should sing them!

I remember growing up, some of the songs we sang as kids actually included the reference in the song.

 

[Tigg]

I tend to feel the same way. If the melody is “boring” as you well put it, I always wonder why we just can’t recite it. I don’t want to fall asleep during Mass.

Or have it sung as a Latin chant, if it’s indeed Scriptural-based.

I actually like the melody of this particular song, but your second point is spot on! Btw, whatever happened to the chant we were supposed to learn according to Jubilate Deo. It’s long overdue for some quality sacred music to be provided for the liturgy.