What is so wrong with the hymn "Gift of Finest Wheat"?

[Tigg]

Please pardon my venting, but it has been my suspicion for some time that the block in updating hymnals consists in superannuated “spirit of Vatican II” people who just can’t part with the 1970s in any way, music being only one of them.

And felt banners still seen in our churches would be another. There is no accounting for individual taste in music, and the masses will never agree, but I personally find most of the music in the OCP banal, insipid and unworthy of the ceremony we are celebrating.

Pardon my venting, but the ones I dislike the most are “On Eagles Wings” and “Gather the People.” I close my lips when we are to sing “here we become what we eat.” Really?? Even when not taken literally, it smacks of a certain new-age phraseology to me.

 

[ProVobis]

I’m not where I can see a hymnal or sheet music but I know that many do give “Biblical credits”.

I have several hymals/organ books and the only Scripture credits are given the Responsorial Psalms, of which most have probably been obsoleted with the new translations.

I find it sad that people write these things just for the copyrights to them. And the unsuspecting pewsitter goes along without demanding to know what the theological bases behind the songs are.

BTW, speaking of the new translations, I think RIdgerunner is on the right track in recommending/implying trashing of all the songs which have been originated/copyrighted after 1970. Then start over and give credit to scriptural inspirations.

 

[SMHW]

I have several hymals/organ books and the only Scripture credits are given the Responsorial Psalms, of which most have probably been obsoleted with the new translations.

I just picked up a 2001 “We Celebrate” hymnal from World Library Publications that was distributed at some conference or class I attended years ago. Some of the songs are adapted from scripture (most don’t claim to be more than paraphrases) and have references and some don’t. In many cases the song/hymn as a whole is a compilation of multiple scripture passages.

I find it sad that people write these things just for the copyrights to them. And the unsuspecting pewsitter goes along without demanding to know what the theological bases behind the songs are.

Well, the song/hymn writers are hoping to pay the mortgage and fund the kids’ college education. But yeah, the theological basis behind the hymn is going to reflect the beliefs and understanding of the writer.

BTW, speaking of the new translations, I think RIdgerunner is on the right track in recommending/implying trashing of all the songs which have been originated/copyrighted after 1970. Then start over and give credit to scriptural inspirations.

I’m not sure how the new translation factors in with regard to hymns but if we are talking propers and the ordinary of the Mass then yes.

 

[Sarabande]

Not to worry, if the world is still around in 30 or 40 years the people that are then in their 30’s will probably be saying pretty much the same thing as you, but about your generation instead of the generation you are speaking of.

I believe that you and others have referred to using the “experts”, have you ever noticed that God very seldom, if ever, chooses an “expert”?

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on what we’re talking about. If it’s about new sacred music from my generation that I’m liking now, then I think you are right. If it is about the sacred music that has stood the test the time, INCLUDING some of the music written during the 60s, 70s, 80s and today, then I might not be as certain about that. And the latter is what I am like. I’m all for using centuries of our sacred music heritage as many of my predecessors and other musicians for the Church have done for centuries. I’m very well aware of the fact there there has always been generational discrepancies, which actually help to add newer music to the repertoire of our Church, especially once the not-so-good stuff is weeded out. It is a continuing cycle that anyone who has read even just a little bit of music history, especially in the Church can see. I feel this is where we are at in the Church at this moment. We’ve had a few decades of basic experimentation with music used in the Church (which has happened over and over through the centuries). We are seeing and hearing the music that won’t last and the music that will.

My main problem when I was a child was the fact that I was told that we were not allowed to use chant, that chant and polyphony was old and passe, along with other music that I now see and hear being used more often at mass. I do not plan on telling those younger than me about that as it was not true, in the first place. So, while some of my younger students might have some disagreements about certain things, I know that it won’t be because I have told them things that weren’t exactly true.

In regards to your last comment. Sure, God did use an expert… He sent His son, Jesus. For others, perhaps they may not have felt they were prepared, but they were given the grace to handle it, including our Blessed Mother, all of whom most certainly became experts as they went along. No experts start out that way either. When we go to a priest, do we want them to be trained… to be an expert in what they do… or do we want them to know basically nothing?

Of course, when you are green, you may not be considered an expert per say, BUT when a new priest, new music director, new theologian, etc. are put to the task, they more than likely have all had training and education to help them decipher how to handle situations in their parish, how to properly administer the sacraments, how to say the mass, how to choose appropriate music for liturgy, how to correctly play an instrument or sing, how to interpret Scripture from a Catholic point-of-view, etc. If we want people who have absolutely no background or training in theology or music or whatever else is needed to choose the music for hymnals, mass parts or anything else, that is when you get into some trouble, and as someone who has worked in music ministry since my teen years and freelanced in almost 200 parishes, I’ve seen and experienced a lot. For instance, one of my music directors is an expert in music, but she is not Catholic and is not an expert in Catholic liturgical music and how the music is to be used for liturgy. There is a big difference there and the things that she chooses or makes us do is not appropriate for mass. But unfortunately, she does not have anyone there guiding her correctly. I’m just an underling, so I have no right to say anything and respect that in the position that I hold.

 

[Digitonomy]

What I can’t understand is why the hymnal publishers …arrested in about 1984 or so…Why, I wonder, has nobody written anything new

This reminded me of a song in the Gather hymnal, Walk in the Reign, which I stumbled upon while browsing through the hymnal before mass one Sunday. While I never heard it sung, the lyrics listed a variety of events, including Tiananmen (the infamous clearing of the square and related violence took place in 1989) to emphasize the transcendence of God despite our temporal trials.

In its name-checking of events, it reminded me of Billy Joel’s “We Didn’t Start the Fire,” which I despise. How, I thought, is Walk in the Reign going to be relevant in decades to come when Tiananmen (misspelled for some reason in the hymnal) is just an obscure geographic location or a brief and forgotten sentence in a high school World History textbook.

Anyway, it was copyright 1990 by Rory Cooney, so GIA did not arrest their hymn collection in the mid-1980s. But if this hymn is typical, perhaps they should have.

By the way, I agree that Gift of Finest Wheat has a sappy sounding melody, I agree with CatholicZ09 that the note jump is problematic, and I strongly disagree with PazzoGrande that it is improved with an organ - that just makes it more dirge-like. A dirge with a wandering melody.

 

[curlycool89]

Lest this thread fall into classical-triumphalism, a few references to the CCC are probably good.

In paragraph 1157, the CCC gives 3 principles (emphasis mine): beauty expressive of prayer, unanimous participation of the assembly at the designated moments, and the solemn character of the celebration. So it’s got to be something prayerful and solemn that someone having no special musical training can actually sing.

Paragraph 1158 states that songs are “all the more expressive and fruitful when expressed in the cultural richness of the People of God who celebrate”. (emphasis original). What this means, contrary to what we often hear here, is that the contemporary styles of music, which are a part of our cultural richness, can be used.

That is where the confusion comes in as our Psalms are great, but we have the completion of salvation with Christ (new Testament). The way they are incorporated, worded does matter theologically.
For me, I compare it to O Sacrament Most Holy.

That is why I rate some good/better/best.

I hate to lob a bomb, but O Sacrament Most Holy is not a communion hymn. It’s an adoration song.

The hymn for communion should really express in song what the reception of communion is all about. Themes like the gathering of the people, or Christian unity by receiving in Christ, or that receiving Christ moves us to charity. I’ve used hymns that speak of Christ’s love for us, which is made manifest in our being able to physically receive His body and blood.

For communion hymns, I usually give the example of “Taste and See” or “Take and Eat”. Adoration songs have a different theme, which is more like “sit/kneel and look”. Which is excellent for an adoration song, but it’s not the right disposition for the when we are going up to receive Jesus Himself.

Pardon my venting, but the ones I dislike the most are “On Eagles Wings” and “Gather the People.” I close my lips when we are to sing “here we become what we eat.” Really?? Even when not taken literally, it smacks of a certain new-age phraseology to me.

Actually, this line has a good theological understanding.

See, when we eat the body of Christ, we become, in a greater unity, the body of Christ. When we eat the body of Christ, we receive the grace to become more like Christ. The Eucharist is strength for the journey to becoming more Christ-like.

And especially, receiving strength from the Eucharist, when we leave Mass we become, in a way, Christ to one another. We become the servant, the teacher, the listener, the one who helps others bear their crosses.

I have several hymals/organ books and the only Scripture credits are given the Responsorial Psalms, of which most have probably been obsoleted with the new translations.

I know that the CBW2 in Canada gave a pretty obvious place on the page to scriptural references. I believe the current CBW3 also give scriptural references for hymns in the small print next to the copyright. Heck, if you have the choir edition, you can even look up hymns by scripture passage.

 

[ProVobis]

Well, the song/hymn writers are hoping to pay the mortgage and fund the kids’ college education.

Okay, but the point was that these writers can include their inspirations or bases for their music. I doubt if Pete Singer or the Byrds lost too many sales when they revealed “Turn, turn, turn” was actually from Ecclesiastes. Good words of wisdom in that piece of music BTW.

 

[SMHW]

Okay, but the point was that these writers can include their inspirations or bases for their music. I doubt if Pete Singer or the Byrds lost too many sales when they revealed “Turn, turn, turn” was actually from Ecclesiastes. Good words of wisdom in that piece of music BTW.

Well, whatever people may otherwise think of them, many of those old St. Louis Jesuits songs do credit the scriptures from which they were derived. I don’t know if the accompaniment books include the references.

 

[jeannetherese]

Except that “Gift of Finest Wheat” is in a psalm, which is God-inspired and part of the Canon of the Bible.

Except that “Taste and See” is in a psalm, which is God-inspired, and part of the Canon of the Bible. Its use as a Eucharistic antiphon (“Gustate et videte”) has an awfully long history of 1000+ years. Gustate et videte translates into… taste and see!

Not sure if this is the “Taste and See” song that is being referred to:

I do prefer the Gregorian chant version, but that’s just my personal taste.

Hi OraLabora,
The lyrics you found and posted are different from those being discussed in this thread. I’m posting the lyrics below.
While searching for the lyrics, I found a Lutheran blog whose author was bemoaning the terrible music being offered in his Lutheran hymnal: His examples? Gift of finest wheat, I am the bread of life, one bread one body, and like many posters on CAF, he was not enthralled with the offerings of the St. Louis Jesuits.
Maybe overhauling our hymnals will wind up being an important component of the New Evangelization.
Here are the lyrics:
Gift of Finest Wheat
(#344 Music Issue)
<
REFRAIN
You satisfy the Hungry Heart,
With gift of Finest Wheat
Come Give to Us oh saving Lord,
The bread of life to eat.
As when the shepherd calls his sheep,
They know and heed his voice.
So when you call your
family Lord,
We follow and rejoice.
<
Refrain
With joyful lips we sing to you
Our praise and gratitude.
That you could count us worthy Lord
To share this heavenly food.
<
Refrain
Is not the cup we bless and share
The blood of Christ outpoured?
Do not one
cup, one loaf declare
Our oneness in the Lord?
<
Refrain
The mystery of your presence Lord
No mortal tongue can tell
Whom all the world cannot contain
Comes in our hearts to dwell.
<
Refrain
You give yourself to us oh Lord
Then selfless let us be
To serve
each other in your name
In truth and charity
<
Refrain

 

[markomalley]

Hey everyone. What is so wrong with they hymn called “Gift of Finest Wheat”. It’s one of my favorites but I’ve heard plenty of complaints about it over the years.

Here it is on Youtube. Lyrics are in the description.

youtube.com/watch?v=DvPCjVWFXJw

I’m sure there are some wonderful renditions of it. I am not accusing it of being heretical. But the way I constantly hear it sung in my parish, it is insipid…along with 99.8% of the other so-called “music” to which people are subjected.

I sort of like George Weigel’s take. He proposes establishing an Index Canticorum Prohibitorum – index of prohibited songs. The ones (not this one) that are heretical, the ones that are utterly banal, and the ones (like this) that have been so highly overused should be placed on that index…for at least 50 years.

(Please bear in mind though, that my personal favorite form of the Mass is the Low Mass in the Extraordinary Form…so that colors my opinion on music greatly)

 

[Tigg]

Actually, this line has a good theological understanding.

See, when we eat the body of Christ, we become, in a greater unity, the body of Christ. When we eat the body of Christ, we receive the grace to become more like Christ. The Eucharist is strength for the journey to becoming more Christ-like.

And especially, receiving strength from the Eucharist, when we leave Mass we become, in a way, Christ to one another. We become the servant, the teacher, the listener, the one who helps others bear their crosses.

These are beautiful words - thank you and I know this is what it is supposed to convey, but when I hear “here we become what we eat” to my way of thinking it elevates man and diminishes the Transcendent - God is, after all, different from us. I guess it just rubs against my own sense of the mystical.

 

[Tigg]

I’m sure there are some wonderful renditions of it. I am not accusing it of being heretical. But the way I constantly hear it sung in my parish, it is insipid…along with 99.8% of the other so-called “music” to which people are subjected.

I actually like both the melody and the lyrics and when it first came out it was one of my favs, but I do like it less the more I hear it. Maybe familiarity does actually breed contempt!

99.8% is a good figure - and it’s probably close to the hymns I too, dislike. For the level of importance the Church places on music, it’s a crying shame we sit in the pews and sometimes just want to cover our ears. The standard certainly needs to be raised.

 

[ProVobis]

For the level of importance the Church places on music, it’s a crying shame we sit in the pews and sometimes just want to cover our ears. The standard certainly needs to be raised.

I wonder if it’s not more society that places importance of music rather than the Church. I have to keep going back to Vatican II which stressed the importance of Gregorian chant in the liturgy, yet the first few changes people noticed in 1964-65 were the expansion of hymns throughout the Mass. And different cultures and music wars developed soon after that.

 

[babochka]

I wonder if it’s not more society that places importance of music rather than the Church.

No, the Church definitely places great importance on music in the liturgy.

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/details/ns_lit_doc_20120404_come-celebrare2_en.html

Singing and beautiful music have provided an interface with the heights and depths of human emotion since time immemorial. However, where such are formative of the liturgy, their higher purpose is that of giving glory to God in worship which, inevitably, eclipses the noble but limited destiny fulfilled by a primary desire for polished performance. Since it is oriented towards God, above all, “the musical tradition of the universal Church is a treasure of inestimable value, greater than that of any other art. The main reason for this is that, as a combination of sacred music and words, it forms a necessary or integral part of solemn liturgy” (Catechism of the Catholic Church [CCC] 1156 and Sacrosanctum Concilium [SC] 112)

 

[pnewton]

.” I close my lips when we are to sing “here we become what we eat.” Really?? Even when not taken literally, it smacks of a certain new-age phraseology to me.

Taken literally, or not, it smacks or St. Augustine, who taught this concept in the 4th century.

earlychurchtexts.com/public/augustine_sermon_272_eucharist.htm

Yet the fact that the it may smack of new age to some may indicate that such a phrasing is inappropriate in places where it could cause confusion. Still, we must consider the adage that you can’t please all the people all the time. If one finds 99% of the music insipid, then music selection would have to be geared to those who *could *be satisfied.

 

[pnewton]

I sort of like George Weigel’s take. He proposes establishing an Index Canticorum Prohibitorum – index of prohibited songs.

That would be interesting for sure. I hope all would be obedient and support such a directive. However, until then, I would hope that all would be equally supportive of the current situation. Obedience one agrees with is easy. When things do not go our way we can see what we are truly like on the inside.

 

[babochka]

These are beautiful words - thank you and I know this is what it is supposed to convey, but when I hear “here we become what we eat” to my way of thinking it elevates man and diminishes the Transcendent - God is, after all, different from us. I guess it just rubs against my own sense of the mystical.

Perhaps an understanding of the Eastern Christian concept of theosis might helpful here. You can read more about it here: orthodoxwiki.org/Theosis

Also, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

460
The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81

 

[MissRose73]

I have no issue with that hymn.

I grew up in the era of the Glory & Praise hymnals, and very little if any traditional hymns often associated with the Latin Mass. Now if we could have a better mix of contemporary and traditional hymns at Mass, that would make things better which is just my opinion,

 

[ProVobis]

No, the Church definitely places great importance on music in the liturgy.

No doubt. Yet we make it all about copyrights and royalties and our own feelings and want to impose them on others. This is bad theology.

 

[Tigg]

No, the Church definitely places great importance on music in the liturgy.

vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/details/ns_lit_doc_20120404_come-celebrare2_en.html

Thanks…you beat me to it!