What is taught about the Early Church in Non Catholic religions?
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badnewsbarrett
Guest
In church sermons, Sunday school, Bible study- usually not, in my experience, although some mainline Christians are more likely to make a point of it, especially if they have some claim on apostolic succession. (I’m not saying the Catholic Church recognizes these claims, but that when these claims exist it increases the likelihood of ECF study and use).
When it does come up though (again, my experience) it tends to be in the context of a classroom setting, and even then it depends on the school and the classroom. Christian Thought is one class that comes to mind, although almost any Bible class could go that way if the prof wants it to. For me, when it has gone there, it’s been one of two things. The main one is a basic outline of different heresies, who said what, and how things generally transpired. And another way I’ve seen it go has to do with Church authority, orthodoxy in general, and the way in which decisions are made, and that typically leads to a discussion of how someone who’s grounded in the history of Christianity sees how important and essential it is for there to be real decision makers who can do some things. That was one of the first Evangelical perspectives on the Early Church that I ever ran across, and it was an interesting and fairly entertaining series of discussions between the professor and several students.
I will also point out that some of the more popular and widely-read Evangelical writers and teaching-pastors are showing some signs of delving into this a bit more than they’re known to do, if you look for it. But I will also acknowledge that the people I’m thinking of are men with decades of teaching experience and then 30 years in, almost by accident, they stumble into some useful information pertaining to the early church. There are of course some very solid historians and archaeologists that are non Catholic, but their expertise doesn’t seem to have made much of an impact on the pastors and teachers who have the most direct impact on the general Protestant ethos…some professors though, depending on the school.
Oh, one more thing. When it does come up, there tends to be an emphasis on how all these early Church councils were held in cities that are effectively regarded as Eastern Orthodox territory. In doing so, it leads to a storyline where the papacy does not get as much decision-making credit as it would probably like to have. That might be an important thing to keep in mind, if you’re just about to reply to this.
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spedteacherita
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cmodrmac
Guest
the same as in catholic seminary-my Priest confirms this-he went to the seminary in New York-yes they teach the early Church fathers
as for
Originally Posted by boomerang View Post
They don’t study the Early Church Fathers. Protestants know Christianity started in 1611 when an angel floated down from heaven with a bible in his hands and gave it to King James. Before that there was only a cult of cannibals called “papists” who kept re-sacrificing Jesus over and over and eating Him.
above is at best offensive and hopefully just a product of ignorance
as for
Originally Posted by boomerang View Post
They don’t study the Early Church Fathers. Protestants know Christianity started in 1611 when an angel floated down from heaven with a bible in his hands and gave it to King James. Before that there was only a cult of cannibals called “papists” who kept re-sacrificing Jesus over and over and eating Him.
above is at best offensive and hopefully just a product of ignorance
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GKC
Guest
Hyperbolic humor.
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Peter_J
Guest
One night a Buddhist temple near me held a class on the Early Church. Amazingly, it was quite similar to what the Catholic Church teaches.
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Peter_J
Guest
(Okay, I just made that up to try an fit in. I’ve never really been to a Buddhist temple, and I don’t know what they teach about the Early Church, but I’ll put it on my “To Ask” list for the next time I talk to a Buddhist.)
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
When I was a protestant, none of the churches I attended ever mentioned them in sermons or Bible studies. I never met a fellow protestant Christian that ever quoted a ECF or a early Church document other than The Bible. I once requested that we read a little bit about the early church (at a non denominational Bible study when the pastor asked our opinions on what could make our get together’s better) he kind of smiled and never mentioned my idea after that
But absolutely some non Catholic Christians get into The Early Church. From my personal background (Non-Denominational, pentecostal and a type of reformed Lutheran denomination) It does not seem like the norm though.
LaughingBoy1503
Well-known member
Heck, when I was a evengelical, I wish I would have heard about Nicea or The Bible coming into being. They never even told us about that. I had to learn about it on The History Channel
I remember a non denominational friend of mine back then (though he was not practicing his faith) telling me that he always thought The Bible did just kind of fall out of heaven. He was also quite amazed when we learned the process by which we got the NT cannon.
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Wannano
Guest
Ahem, er, canon!Heck, when I was a evengelical, I wish I would have heard about Nicea or The Bible coming into being. They never even told us about that. I had to learn about it on The History Channel
I remember a non denominational friend of mine back then (though he was not practicing his faith) telling me that he always thought The Bible did just kind of fall out of heaven. He was also quite amazed when we learned the process by which we got the NT cannon.
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adf417
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arthra
Guest
From time to time there have been discussions about Christianity … among Baha’is.
An example from online:
bahai-library.com/stockman_christianity_bahai_perspective&chapter=6
But early Church writings and such are not often a subject.
An example from online:
bahai-library.com/stockman_christianity_bahai_perspective&chapter=6
But early Church writings and such are not often a subject.
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exnihilo
Guest
Newadvent.org has a lot of ECF writings. These are the actual complete writings and not commentaries. That being the case this is an enormous amount of material to read. But if you want to read straight from the source this is a good resource.
I had a similar experience as a Protestant. Though I would add that I encountered the occasional reference to St. Augustine. I think this was due to two things. First there was a natural tendency to focus more on history of the denomination. This is after all what made that church unique. Also I think there is just a cultural lack of awareness of or concern for history. We tend to think very highly of our time and much less of the poor ignorant fools of the past.
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Tommy999
Guest
Much obliged. :tiphat:
Yes, I forgot about St Augustine. I knew about him only as an answer to a trivia question because of the city named in his honor in Florida, which is the oldest continuously occupied European-established settlement within the borders of the contiguous United States
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Peter_J
Guest
Fair enough. Can’t say I’ll ever join the Baha’i Answers Forum or what have you, but it’s nice to know we’re thought of there.
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GKC
Guest
Can be confused with sectarian sarcasm, of course.You’d think as a Lutheran I’d pick up on hyperbole.
Jon
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commenter
Guest
Based on my reading, my belief is that Evangelicals tended to look at early history less than Lutherans and Anglicans, some of whom are evangelical themselves. This is likely because historically they were wary of anything that would give weight to “tradition”.
I think that is changing for a few reasons.
I think that is changing for a few reasons.
- C. S. Lewis, and similar peeps, put some importance on the positives of tradition, and the negatives of “Chronological Snobbery”. Lewis is becoming more important for evangelicals, and less important for most Anglicans and mainlines.
- Cautious friendliness with the Catholic Church, which they perceive as somewhat more biblical, and one of their few remaining allies on many fronts.
- I don’t know, but suspect, there is concern over what happened to the mainlines, some of whom 50 years ago seemed solid, seemed scriptural, and justify all their actions even now, on Scripture. If processes can go bad, even while holding a bible in your hands, you need to take a closer look at what processes have gone good, and why. That means looking at all time frames, including the early church.
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Wannano
Guest
Thank you for your comments. My initial read of them gave me positive identification with your last two points.
What I find a little frustrating with writing rather than verbal communication is how it is so easy to be misunderstood and also to misunderstand. So I am asking clarification on the second point. I agree that Evangelicals are seeing the Catholic Church as one of the last remaining allies and we hope you do not cave on some issues. So I am interested in knowing when you say “they perceive as somewhat more biblical” are you saying more biblical than them or that the Catholic Church is becoming more biblical?
In regards to the third point it is not only the mainlines that are giving up traditional understandings but also many conservative denominations. I also have Catholic friends who express dismay at what they feel they see happening in their ranks. Are we seeing a “falling away”?
Sometimes I wonder if the church Jesus intended us to be does not bear much resemblance to what organized religion has become.
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commenter
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Evangelicals overhear Catholics talking more about the Bible than RC’s used to {true}
so they infer we are reading it more than RC’s used to (doubtful, but let’s keep that secret). The bigger question is whether we are living it more than we used to.
They would not consider the RC faith as equal or more biblical than evangelicalism, but my reading suggests they consider Catholic explanations as somewhat more plausible, “OK I can see your point on this”, though they still hold to their former interpretation.
Yes, the “falling away” is intensifying in Western countries. This is partly due to our fallen nature, but more serious because of the growing power of “The World”, the extreme pressure from the media which is forming many young Catholics and evangelicals. The Catholic Church is suffering huge losses in individuals and institutions who no longer accept the doctrine of the Faith. But the Church has not suffered any loss of the doctrine of the Faith itself. The reliability of the guide is not affected by whether many follow it, or few.
I am so far from what Jesus intended** me** to be, I need to spend less time reading, writing and worrying about organized religion. I have enough dark spots in me that need the flashlight of prayer and deeper conversion. Love too.
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