What is the Catholic Church?

[CharlesPaul]

We hope and pray, that our protestant brothers and sisters will go to Heaven, we can’t give up on possibility that they will be received into Heaven, despite their separation from The Sacraments and The Church.

 

[PJM]

=MrPip;7792470]If I may, I’d like to incorporate several questions/points in one post. If this is not appropriate, I hope someone will correct me and direct me in the right direction.

1. Firstly, what about the Orthodox? Where do they fit in with all of this?

The Orthodox might be considered family members who had a fight. There still family; still elgible for the sacraments and therefore the grace that makes salvation far more likely.

They remain in schism [seperated from Rome], but retain Direct Apolostolic succession. Because Christ clearly desires [ed] only One Church, that being the Roman catholic Church and its brances; they too will struggle more than Traditional catholics in attaining personal salvation. But are clearly in a more advantageous position to do so because of the sacraments.

1. It’s has been said by both Catholic and Orthodox that salvation is only in the Church. Yet, both claim to be the Church. If that is the case, why won’t the Orthodox allow Catholics to receive sacraments in Orthodox churches, as Catholics will allow Orthodox? (And, please, let’s not let this devolve into yet another argument about the filioque, o.k. ?)

Interestingly the matter is resovable by secular [unprejudiced] historians. It is indispuitable that Christ Founded the catholic church. All Agree or [ought to]. The first Church being in Jerusalem and the next MAJOR CC being in Rome. The Eastern churches
became prominate in the era of Constatine in the Forth Century. And it was many hundreds of years until the GREAT SCHISM.

"Etymology & Origins of ‘The Catholic Church’

The words “the Catholic Church” (he katholike ekklesia) is found for the first time in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, written about the year 110. The words run:

Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal [katholike] Church." Thus the CC in jerusalem and Rome as wel as other places was already well founded, even if forced “underground.”

1. If it is not the case that both Catholic and Orthodox are both part of the One Church, that would make one of them “wrong”, so to speak, and subject to the “possibility” of salvation rather than the “likelihood” of salvation. Is this the work of a God Who is Mercy, Himself?

There’s more, but that’s probably enough for now .

God Bless!

Of COURSE NOT! [which I assume is your point], Man can sin; God cannot. The NT [accepted I believe also by the Orthodox] was written entirely by men known today to be Catholics. And not dissimilar to the Protestant community at large, must defy God; God’s Word, and God’s Will to accomplish there “I know more or I know better” understanding; clearly dispuited by the Bible:

Eph. 4: 1-7 “I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body [WHICH MEANS ONE CHURCH] and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, [Meaning only One set of beliefs] one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift."

And ONLY Christ CC has the God Himself as the warranty of Her Truths [unable to lie] when teaching Officially of Faith-Beliefs and Morals. Schism breakes this bond of assurred Truths.

John 14: 16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you know him, for he dwells with you, and will be in you." [SEE Jn. 20:22]

***John 17: 14-19 “I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. 18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.[With the unering Power of Christ Himself] ** And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.”

God Bless,
Pat

**Eph. 2: 18-22 **“ for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. “

**John.10: 16 **“And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they

 

[ajpirc]

The Church (that which was given to Peter and continues to be led by Peter’s successors; the Pope) is Christ’s body here on earth. If you are not in full communion with the Pope, then you are not fully part of the body.

Your analogy about the kid that ran away from home is dead on, I think.

With your city analogy, I think if we say that the Church is the city, then the Protestants are citizens who have gone up into the mountains to leave behind all of the amenities of the city (abundant clean water, soap, warm well-kept houses, being able to buy food from the store using money earned from a regular, well-paying job) to try to make it on their own. They don’t bathe with soap, or even at all in many cases (no baptism or Confirmation), they only acquire food once every three months and have to survive on that for the whole three months (Eucharist); and the food isn’t very nourishing (no Real Presence) so they get sick very easily, and they mostly live out in the cold (no Sacraments of Holy Orders or Marriage). And they have no access to hospitals, so if they get badly injured or really sick, they just die (no Sacrament of Anointing).

The very tough ones can survive; the smarter ones return to the city and get regular jobs; the rest of them just die really young.

Thank Christ for parables to help us understand His teachings!

 

[jmcrae]

Are you saying that the chance of a Protestant being saved practically zero?

Chance doesn’t really enter into it. Each individual Protestant is on quite literally an individual journey, without any visible support from outside of himself to help him get to Heaven. If he sins after Baptism, he has no Sacrament of Reconciliation to restore him to his baptismal grace.

Does God have some kind of alternative to the Sacrament of Reconciliation? There is nothing else that has been revealed to us - the Sacrament of Reconciliation is the only thing that God has ever tangibly given us for that situation - anything else that there might be has never been revealed by God, but is kept hidden from us - we simply don’t know.

I don’t think that’s fair. As with anyone who haven’t heard of the Gospel yet, I do think God could show him mercy and save him. But I’m not the one to decide that, it’s all up to God who he chooses to save.

Yes, exactly. We simply can’t know.

Likewise I believe that many Christians in other churches than the Catholic Church may be saved, if it is that they haven’t learned about the Catholic Church yet. But know that I’ve started to investigate the Catholic Church, I’m convinced that I’d be a huge sin if I don’t convert now that God has revealed the whole Truth for me.

Logically, anyone who seeks Him with all of his heart should find the Truth, and likewise the true Church, if he’s open for the holy Spirit to lead him on his journey.

If someone tells you a lie and you believe it, is it your fault if you fail? Somehow I think it depends on how much you really want to know the Truth, how eager you are to find it, and the circumstances (e.g. people, media) given by God to make you able find it.

I agree completely with this.