What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Juan_Arguelles
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Judaism in the eyes of Catholicism is seen as a transitory Religion. They were the holders of the Covenants that God established with his people till the comming of the Messiah who established the New and Everlasting Covenant. With Christ, the Old Testament is sealed and fulfilled in the New Testament. Since the Jewish perception of the Messiah was that of an Earthly King with an earthly Kingdom who would liberate them from their enemies (Romans), they are still awaiting his arrival. The question is the Romans are history, who will he liberate them from?
 
LumenGent said:
Judaism in the eyes of Catholicism is seen as a transitory Religion. They were the holders of the Covenants that God established with his people till the comming of the Messiah who established the New and Everlasting Covenant. With Christ, the Old Testament is sealed and fulfilled in the New Testament. Since the Jewish perception of the Messiah was that of an Earthly King with an earthly Kingdom who would liberate them from their enemies (Romans), they are still awaiting his arrival. The question is the Romans are history, who will he liberate them from?
Click to expand...
Could you show where it says that Messiah will only liberate us from Rome?
 
I also get the impression that the Jews parallel themselves with Islam in similarity, ironically enough, in the sense of political ideology, which appears to be much more of a ethnic or cultural outlook, or identity now based on its soverign state than a religion. Though even in the spiritual realm the similarity also exists as least as far as God. This is my impression, but I may well be off the mark?

I suppose its the impact of modern life as usual and how men bend and twist to shape and conform to it.
 
Kaninchen said:
There’s a paradigmatic problem here.

Christians have ‘Jesus as God’ and his life story/sayings to relate to.

We don’t have anything of the sort, we have what God gave us, ie Torah and from Torah we are to deduce whatever we can deduce about God - God is One, God is Logical, stuff like that - and what God requires of us. For us, anything beyond that is idolatry.
Click to expand...
The classic breakdown between a Creedal religion vs. an Orthoprax one.
 
LumenGent said:
Judaism in the eyes of Catholicism is seen as a transitory Religion. They were the holders of the Covenants that God established with his people till the comming of the Messiah who established the New and Everlasting Covenant. With Christ, the Old Testament is sealed and fulfilled in the New Testament. Since the Jewish perception of the Messiah was that of an Earthly King with an earthly Kingdom who would liberate them from their enemies (Romans), they are still awaiting his arrival. The question is the Romans are history, who will he liberate them from?
Click to expand...
Ahh, but there were many competing visions of what the Messiah would be/might do in the Second Temple Period, that is of course assuming that the Jewish sect in question actually believed in a Messiah in the first place (case in point with the Sadducces)

Your have described but two versions.
 
Kaninchen said:
There’s a paradigmatic problem here.

Christians have ‘Jesus as God’ and his life story/sayings to relate to.

We don’t have anything of the sort, we have what God gave us, ie Torah and from Torah we are to deduce whatever we can deduce about God - God is One, God is Logical, stuff like that - and what God requires of us. For us, anything beyond that is idolatry.
Click to expand...
Same here. God is One.🤷 And we are the same everthing comes from God.

To say that God is One but cannot reveal himself anyway he choices would be restraining God. We have no Power over God. He can do what he wants, how he wants, and when he wants.

And who is to know the mind of God. Where do we have the power to determine what is logical and what is not logical in the eyes of God.

To claim to know what is logical to God would say we are equal to him would it not?:confused:
 
Yes, But not always. I mean you hear it all the time Why did God let this happen and why did God let that happen. We can’t always understand God.

Even the Pope was asked a question this past week by a child why the disasters etc. And like the Pope stated he does not know.

There are thing’s in this world we cannot understand. We know and trust God completely and know that we have no right to question him. But on the same token there is much we do not understand and never will.

Unless I am still missing the point completely. I do that sometimes:blush:
 
rinnie said:
Same here. God is One.🤷 And we are the same everthing comes from God.

To say that God is One but cannot reveal himself anyway he choices would be restraining God. We have no Power over God. He can do what he wants, how he wants, and when he wants.

And who is to know the mind of God. Where do we have the power to determine what is logical and what is not logical in the eyes of God.

To claim to know what is logical to God would say we are equal to him would it not?:confused:
Click to expand...
rinnie, I see here also the similarity with Judaism and Islam with a difficulty in grasping the trinity and thus insisting on the inability for Christainity to be monotheistic. Christianity is defined by many as monotheistic polytheistic and nontheistic.

Another issue which only time, and an effort to comprehend with an open mind could resolve. But its also no mystery when you consider you can talk and confront Christians right here and within a short period of time you see the difficulty with “trinity” arrive. Often the first comment is how would Jesus Christ could sit at the right hand of God if He is God? 😉 You know how it goes.

God Bless, Gary
 
GaryTaylor said:
rinnie, I see here also the similarity with Judaism and Islam with a difficulty in grasping the trinity and thus insisting on the inability for Christainity to be monotheistic. Christianity is defined by many as monotheistic polytheistic and nontheistic.

Another issue which only time, and an effort to comprehend with an open mind could resolve. But its also no mystery when you consider you can talk and confront Christians right here and within a short period of time you see the difficulty with “trinity” arrive. Often the first comment is how would Jesus Christ could sit at the right hand of God if He is God? 😉 You know how it goes.

God Bless, Gary
Click to expand...
I know. Many do not understand the Trinity. And you are right it is hard to explain these things. It takes much prayer and much study and faith to truly understand the Trinity.

I think I am seeing now your point though. Thanks.
 
I’ve heard the Trinity/polytheism objection from several fronts. My response is always the same: Your argument boils down to “I have no frame of reference for how One being, could be three persons, therefore it cannot exist and you believe in three gods.” You seem unable to imagine that God might be capable of things you are not.

One feature Judaism and Catholicism DO share is that they are religions AND cultures. It’s not unheard of to meet someone who calls himself a Jewish atheist. There are likewise people who call themselves catholic, but haven’t prayed a prayer or given an ounce of thought to God in decades. That’s functionally the same thing. But in both cases, there are family bonds and cultural traditions that sometimes last even when the faith part has been discarded.
 
It’s not a matter of ‘understanding’ the trinity, the trinity is an argument necessary to Christianity’s proposition that a man could be God while continuing to regard itself as monotheistic - which is not exactly a mystery. 😉
 
Hi there,
From what I know, Catholics, according to teaching, have a very high respect and love for the Jewish faith. It was the Jewish people that gave us our first covenant, and gave us Mary and Jesus. Every year at the Easter Vigil in particular, we recall our common heritage.

Especially in later years, Catholics have moved towards having a lot of ecumenical discussions with Jewish leaders and lay people. We view Judaism as the very root of our faith. The Church views Anti-Semitism as a sin.

God Bless.
 
GaryTaylor said:
What percentage in Israel actually practice Judaism?

I get the conversion concept, while I also understand being “born” Jewish, how would that make you Jewish by faith if you decided on Atheism for example?

So being “Jewish People” and actually following Judaism are two distinct seperate realitys no? So are those who drift away and decide on"whatever" christian, islam, atheism, are they accepted in Israel or shunned, considered lost souls. How are they viewed and treated as people?

God Bless, Gary
Click to expand...
Insofar as percentage of Jews in Israel who actually practice Judaism, that depends on what you mean by practice. If you mean fully-practicing Torah Jews, I believe the percentage is relatively low, but not negligent; although many Orthodox Jews in the US claim it is much higher than what non-Orthodox Jews both in the US and Israel claim. There is a range of practice from Haredi Judaism (ultra-Orthodox, not a complimentary term) to other Hassidic groups, to traditional Orthodox and Modern Orthodox, and on to Conservative Jews and Reform Jews, and finally, least practicing, if at all, secular Jews (really Jewish agnostics or atheists). The distribution in Israel tends to be most divided between the very Orthodox and the secular, but there are these “in-between groups” as well.
 
Kaninchen said:
It’s not a matter of ‘understanding’ the trinity, the trinity is an argument necessary to Christianity’s proposition that a man could be God while continuing to regard itself as monotheistic - which is not exactly a mystery. 😉
Click to expand...
Why would it be so hard to believe. Did God not make us in the image of himself? Are we not Human?

What is so hard to accept.

He was revealed to us as the Father in the Word.
As the Son in the word that became Flesh. Jesus Christ.
ANd as the Holy Spirit. Which is how we communicate with him now with our minds.

It’s actually pretty simple to understand.

Abraham never saw God, but he communicated with him where he heard God.
Jesus revealed himself as the Son of God when he died on the cross and rose again.
And now he has revealed himself through the Church by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

But it is all ONE GOD. Jesus never said there was more then One God.

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

3 Separate Persons ONE in BEING with the Father.

All Equal. IF they were 3 separate gods there would be no equal in being. It would be impossible.

I do not understand what is so hard for people to believe that God can reveal himself to us any way he wants. Why would that be such a mystery. God is both Human and Divine. Seems pretty simple to me.🤷
 
rinnie said:
Why would it be so hard to believe. Did God not make us in the image of himself? Are we not Human?

What is so hard to accept.

He was revealed to us as the Father in the Word.
As the Son in the word that became Flesh. Jesus Christ.
ANd as the Holy Spirit. Which is how we communicate with him now with our minds.

It’s actually pretty simple to understand.

Abraham never saw God, but he communicated with him where he heard God.
Jesus revealed himself as the Son of God when he died on the cross and rose again.
And now he has revealed himself through the Church by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

But it is all ONE GOD. Jesus never said there was more then One God.

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

3 Separate Persons ONE in BEING with the Father.

All Equal. IF they were 3 separate gods there would be no equal in being. It would be impossible.

I do not understand what is so hard for people to believe that God can reveal himself to us any way he wants. Why would that be such a mystery. God is both Human and Divine. Seems pretty simple to me.🤷
Click to expand...
I know you believe all that rinnie, my point is that such a concept is necessary to Christianity because of the idea that a man was God. If one doesn’t believe a man was God, then it’s a total irrelevance.
 
Kaninchen said:
I know you believe all that rinnie, my point is that such a concept is necessary to Christianity because of the idea that a man was God. If one doesn’t believe a man was God, then it’s a total irrelevance.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying but you missed my point. You do accept the first book of the O.T do you not?

Then how do you explain that Man is made in the image of God. That is all I am asking?
 
rinnie said:
I understand what you are saying but you missed my point. You do accept the first book of the O.T do you not?

Then how do you explain that Man is made in the image of God. That is all I am asking?
Click to expand...
Shabbat is coming up, so I’m afraid that I have to say ‘read the links I gave’ and try google.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top