What is the Catholic view of Judaism?

[Kaninchen]

No we don’t. We see it in the teachings of the Apostles and the Church.

Goodness, and there was me thinking that the teachings of the Apostles were to be found in the NT and the Catholic Church found its inspiration in the NT.

 

[Denise1957]

Goodness, and there was me thinking that the teachings of the Apostles were to be found in the NT and the Catholic Church found its inspiration in the NT.

Well, technically, the content of the NT (at least the four main Gospels) are not really the teachings of the Apostles. It’s more accurate, I think, according to Church teaching, to say that the Apostles were the writers of the Gospels, but they were not the authors. God is, or was, rather, the author. And while the Church has always found inspiration in the Gospels, Church teaching is also based on tradition (the verbal handing down of teaching).
For instance, you won’t find anywhere in Sacred Scripture (NT) where it says that the Blessed Virgin Mary (who was, and still is, the very best of Jewish mothers!) was assumed into Heaven. But according to tradition, the Church has always believed that she was assumed into Heaven. After she died, her body disappeared, and lilies were suddenly found growing outside of her home, where she had died. This is just one example; there are many others.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, technically, the content of the NT (at least the four main Gospels) are not really the teachings of the Apostles. It’s more accurate, I think, according to Church teaching, to say that the Apostles were the writers of the Gospels, but they were not the authors. God is, or was, rather, the author. And while the Church has always found inspiration in the Gospels, Church teaching is also based on tradition (the verbal handing down of teaching).
For instance, you won’t find anywhere in Sacred Scripture (NT) where it says that the Blessed Virgin Mary (who was, and still is, the very best of Jewish mothers!) was assumed into Heaven. But according to tradition, the Church has always believed that she was assumed into Heaven. After she died, her body disappeared, and lilies were suddenly found growing outside of her home, where she had died. This is just one example; there are many others.

So, the NT is relatively unimportant then?

 

[Denise1957]

So, the NT is relatively unimportant then?

I don’t understand why you would ask this question. Could you please explain? Thank you.

 

[Kaninchen]

I don’t understand why you would ask this question. Could you please explain? Thank you.

Well, you see, it started with me saying that Christians view the OT through the ‘lens’ of the NT. Then rinnie said that it was through the teaching of the Apostles and the Church, to which I replied that I’d been under the impression that the teaching of the Apostles was in the NT and the Church was supposedly based on the NT.

Then you started talking about lillies and stuff, so I got the impression that the NT was moving into the background.

 

[Denise1957]

Well, you see, it started with me saying that Christians view the OT through the ‘lens’ of the NT. Then rinnie said that it was through the teaching of the Apostles and the Church, to which I replied that I’d been under the impression that the teaching of the Apostles was in the NT and the Church was supposedly based on the NT.

Then you started talking about lillies and stuff, so I got the impression that the NT was moving into the background.

The comment regarding the lillies was not the main thrust of my post. If you care to read it again, you’ll see that there’s more to it than that. I cannot see that anything that I wrote would, in any way whatsoever, indicate that that Sacred Scripture (NT) is unimportant.

 

[Kaninchen]

The comment regarding the lillies was not the main thrust of my post. If you care to read it again, you’ll see that there’s more to it than that. I cannot see that anything that I wrote would, in any way whatsoever, indicate that that Sacred Scripture (NT) is unimportant.

Hm, I’m the one who was saying that I thought that the NT was the basis of Catholicism (and the rest of Christianity), it’s you and rennie who seem to be disagreeing.

 

[Denise1957]

Hm, I’m the one who was saying that I thought that the NT was the basis of Catholicism (and the rest of Christianity), it’s you and rennie who seem to be disagreeing.

What I was trying to point out (perhaps not very well) is that Sacred Scripture isn’t the ONLY basis of Catholicism. You’re not Catholic, so I don’t expect you to necessarily know this, just as I don’t know everything about Judaism…actually, I don’t know much at all.
By the way, do you attend Synagogue? I’m just wondering if you practice the Jewish faith.

 

[Kaninchen]

What I was trying to point out (perhaps not very well) is that Sacred Scripture isn’t the ONLY basis of Catholicsm. You’re not Catholic, so I don’t expect you to necessarily know this, just as I don’t know everything about Judaism…actually, I don’t know much at all.

You have to remember that you’re talking to somebody who doesn’t believe any of it rather than a Protestant, say, who partly agrees so talking about accepting Church tradition or not isn’t exactly relevant. It’s a ‘is Christianity based on the NT or not?’ discussion.

By the way, do you attend Synagogue? I’m just wondering if you practice the Jewish faith.

We’re what we describe as ‘reasonably observant’ - bit like Catholics who do the basics but don’t get carried away.

 

[Denise1957]

You have to remember that you’re talking to somebody who doesn’t believe any of it rather than a Protestant, say, who partly agrees so talking about accepting Church tradition or not isn’t exactly relevant. It’s a ‘is Christianity based on the NT or not?’ discussion.

We’re what we describe as ‘reasonably observant’ - bit like Catholics who do the basics but don’t get carried away.

So…do you attend Synagogue, or not?

 

[Denise1957]

As no answer has been forthcoming, I have to conclude that you do not attend Synagogue. For Catholics, if we are to practice the ‘basics,’ then we will at least attend Mass every Sunday. It is a grave sin to miss Mass on Sunday, except for a good reason (such having to work, being ill, or having to care for a small child or an ill person).

Given that you have not answered, at least you are honest in that you have not said that you attend Synagogue, when, in reality, you don’t. That’s a good sign. However, if you aren’t really serious about Judaism, then why are you here? I have some ideas about that, but will not mention them at this time.

As to the OP of this thread, I would ask the author to at the very least to pray about the situation regarding Catholicism. If you sincerely want to know about the Catholic faith which your ancestors practiced, but of which you know very little, then I would suggest that you do all that you can to learn about it, rather than to post threads that will be contentious. Ask our Blessed Mother to help. She will not lead you astray.

 

[Kaninchen]

As no answer has been forthcoming, I have to conclude that you do not attend Synagogue.

Perhaps you’d be safer concluding that people in different time zones do things like go to work, go shopping and so on when you’re expecting them to reply to you - sometimes they even take a break and find the time to answer. Yes, we attend Shul, yes we keep Kosher etc, OK?

After a decade and a half of talking to Christians on the web, I’m not particularly interested in what you believe, I think I know that by now. I am, however, rather interested in the consequences of what people believe and that makes CAF rather addictive - to somebody with a family background of Jews living in Bavaria and Italy perhaps particularly so.

Anyway, from now on, perhaps it would be better, if you want to converse with me, to read what I write rather than make assumptions of my movements - or lack of them, or presence - or lack of it.

 

[rinnie]

Goodness, and there was me thinking that the teachings of the Apostles were to be found in the NT and the Catholic Church found its inspiration in the NT.

Huh? The Catholic Church IS the N.T. The Catholic Church was around long before the N.T. How do you think the N.T came about. Do you actually think the N.T was here before the Church.

Who do you think composed the N.T. That would be the Church not the other way around.

Jesus sent out his Apostles to teach not to compose a book. The bible did not come into play until long after the Church.

The Church was here from the day of Pentecost. The Church is led by the Holy Spirit not by the N.T. The CC found and still finds its inspiration from the Advocate the Holy Spirit.

Always has always will.

You could burn every single piece of scripture in the world and it would not change the Catholic Church. The Scripture is of course the word of God and is good for reading and meditating on. But it is the Church that leads us to Salvation from the Power of the Holy Spirit. Not the written word.

 

[rinnie]

Perhaps you’d be safer concluding that people in different time zones do things like go to work, go shopping and so on when you’re expecting them to reply to you - sometimes they even take a break and find the time to answer. Yes, we attend Shul, yes we keep Kosher etc, OK?

After a decade and a half of talking to Christians on the web, I’m not particularly interested in what you believe, I think I know that by now. I am, however, rather interested in the consequences of what people believe and that makes CAF rather addictive - to somebody with a family background of Jews living in Bavaria and Italy perhaps particularly so.

Anyway, from now on, perhaps it would be better, if you want to converse with me, to read what I write rather than make assumptions of my movements - or lack of them, or presence - or lack of it.

Hey Kaninchen what do you think our consequences are for believing and following the Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church.

By obeying the commandments of Christ, believing in him and trying to live out his word?

 

[mdrummer5]

Free Will. We all have it to accept Christ or reject him. Same reason some people believe in God and some who don’t.

Rather its a fact or not does not mean People have to accept it. God again gave us the free will to choose for ourself. He knows who are his and who are not.

You went from saying it’s a fact to essentially saying that whether or not it’s fact is irrelevant because of free will. Free will does not apply to factual information.

2 + 2 = 4 this has been proven… no amount of God given free will can change that, mental disorders may prevent some people from grasping the concept but that’s whole other issue. If “Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of God” could be stated in the same fashion it would be a fact. Just because you and I view it as the truth that doesn’t mean it’s a fact.

Just an observation but you like many other Christians (or people of any faith for that matter) seem to refuse to believe that it’s possible that you could be wrong. To a point I understand why, the implications that go along with accepting that what you believe may not be true are terrifying. I know because I did the same thing… that’s ultimately what lead me to Catholicism. I believe Jesus was/is the messiah. However, in all of the reading I’ve done to study the faith (which has been a lot) there’s been nothing that proves it as fact. There are a ton of compelling arguments that support it but nothing that proves it.

It’s faith, not fact… it’s believing, not knowing. Look at the Nicene Creed… the phrase “we believe” is said 5 times if memory serves… “we know” doesn’t appear at all.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Huh? The Catholic Church IS the N.T. The Catholic Church was around long before the N.T. How do you think the N.T came about. Do you actually think the N.T was here before the Church.

Who do you think composed the N.T. That would be the Church not the other way around.

Jesus sent out his Apostles to teach not to compose a book. The bible did not come into play until long after the Church.

The Church was here from the day of Pentecost. The Church is led by the Holy Spirit not by the N.T. The CC found and still finds its inspiration from the Advocate the Holy Spirit.

Always has always will.

You could burn every single piece of scripture in the world and it would not change the Catholic Church. The Scripture is of course the word of God and is good for reading and meditating on. But it is the Church that leads us to Salvation from the Power of the Holy Spirit. Not the written word.

I’m not sure I agree…if we abandon all scripture, then a major part of the mass will cease to exist…The Liturgy of the Word. It isn’t just to read and meditate upon…it’s a major part of Mass.

I think Kaninchen has a very valid point about our beliefs being found in the New Testament, especially the Gospels.

We are not a sola scriptura faith…but doesn’t mean we are a “nolo scriptura” faith.

 

[Kaninchen]

Huh? The Catholic Church IS the N.T. The Catholic Church was around long before the N.T. How do you think the N.T came about. Do you actually think the N.T was here before the Church.

Sometimes, rinnie . . .

So, you agree with me that you see the OT through the lens of the NT.

 

[Kaninchen]

Hey Kaninchen what do you think our consequences are for believing and following the Holy Spirit in the Catholic Church.

By obeying the commandments of Christ, believing in him and trying to live out his word?

We don’t believe that Christians are disadvantaged by believing in Christianity.

 

[kildare]

You could burn every single piece of scripture in the world and it would not change the Catholic Church. The Scripture is of course the word of God and is good for reading and meditating on. But it is the Church that leads us to Salvation from the Power of the Holy Spirit. Not the written word.

“Truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth come to an end, not the smallest letter or part of a letter will in any way be taken from the law, till all things are done.”

May God bless that what I say here does not cause any harm or cause anyone to be deviated from the Truth, but here is what I think:

For the Catholic talking away the Old Testament, taking away Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is like taking away the first part of a novel, or like trying to live without a heart - its simply cant be done. Mary is the new Eve, the real Ark of the Covenant. Christ is the new Adam, the Messiah, the Lord who was prefigured to Abraham by the three messengers who appeared to him before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. The Kingdom of David, the law, the prophecies, are all rprefigurments and are played out again and again in our own histories.
The modern Jews obviously have to look at the OT with different lenses. Kanninchen is right - it is a paradigm shift and necessarily so, because it comes to a different (unfulfilled ?) conclusion. If they accept Jesus then it changes everything of course. But meanwhile for us Catholics the New Testament is the culmination of the greatest story - the TRUE story in the History of the World, that when God the author of the Myth entered into his own story and saved it!

 

[Denise1957]

Perhaps you’d be safer concluding that people in different time zones do things like go to work, go shopping and so on when you’re expecting them to reply to you - sometimes they even take a break and find the time to answer. Yes, we attend Shul, yes we keep Kosher etc, OK?

After a decade and a half of talking to Christians on the web, I’m not particularly interested in what you believe, I think I know that by now. I am, however, rather interested in the consequences of what people believe and that makes CAF rather addictive - to somebody with a family background of Jews living in Bavaria and Italy perhaps particularly so.

Anyway, from now on, perhaps it would be better, if you want to converse with me, to read what I write rather than make assumptions of my movements - or lack of them, or presence - or lack of it.

Thank you for answering the question. If anyone asks me if I attend Mass at a Catholic Church, it would take only a few minutes to respond. I would just say “yes,” if pressed for time. It’s really quite simple, and practical.

I did read what you wrote, and was trying to correct a misrepresentation of what you wrote concerning Sacred Scripture and the Apostles in relation to what the Church teaches. You seemed offended by this. However, with over 5000 posts under your belt here at Catholic Answers Forums, you seem to know very little about Catholicism. You have said that you don’t really care what I believe, which is, of course, evident. It seems that you have no interest in what Catholicism really teaches. If you are truly interested in the consequences of what people believe, woudn’t it be a good idea to try to sincerely understand what they believe, and why they believe it? Rather than to take every opportunity possible to disagree, or misrepresent what the Church teaches?