What is the Catholic view on Near Death Experiences (NDEs)?

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mikekle said:
I can understand some of your skepticism regarding seeing past relatives, but in many cases, the person will describe conversations or activities taking place in other rooms, where they could not possibly have seen, so lying about this would not be possible.

Ive also read some strange NDEs like reincarnation and some other very bizarre experiences that would suggest a very different afterlife than the bible describes, but they are not common at all, usually its one of two similar experiences. Im not sure what to make of the strange ones, maybe we will all be shocked and in awe as to what really happens?

I do think the key point to most NDEs, the people that experience them seem to recognize there is nothing in death to be scared of or worried about, so that is very encouraging to the rest of us.
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Right now I believe NDEs are a physiological or neurobiological manifestation, but I do believe that we will all be surprised at what lies beyond death.

People who have a different religious belief tend to have very different NDEs. Hindus and Buddhists, for example, believe they see their past lives. Personally, I don’t believe in reincarnation, so I doubt I’d have that experience. I believe it’s one life to a customer! LOL
 
thistle said:
Catholics may not believe in reincarnation.

CCC 1013 Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed, we shall not return to other earthly lives: “It is appointed for men to die once.”** There is no “reincarnation” after death.**
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I don’t think anyone here believes in reincarnation. She was just talking about people who believe they have seen past lives, and some people do believe that.
 
I’d like to see claims of reincarnation (which do not per se involve NDE) vetted as strictly as are claims of NDE.

Lamentably, because in the current culture it is “chic” to believe in reincarnation, that often doesn’t happen.

ICXC NIKA
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Do you mean from monitor read-outs, etc.? I’m not sure we’re all using the definition of “dead.”
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I think that’s the problem. People are yelling past each other.

There are 2 senses of “death”:
  1. the cessation of all body functions (movement, pulse, breathing, skin warmth, and in modern times, EEG);
  2. the final end to a human life, beyond which only the slowly decomposing body remains.
Because case 1 normatively leads into case 2, they are often conflated.

Obviously, no NDE recipient has ever gone into case 2 by definition.

So is someone in case 1 really ‘dead’ before case 2 sets in?

That becomes somewhat of a semantic issue, except that body function may remain at currently indiscernible levels. After all, six generations ago a lack of breathing was considered diagnostic of death, but now folks are routinely recovered from that condition.

ICXC NIKA
 
Thank you. 🙂

I don’t call people in the first scenario actually dead. But I have read of cases where people have actually been sent to the morgue then have revived on their own, before refrigeration, of course. So it would seem the medical profession isn’t quite sure what dead is, either. Either that or people really do return from the actual dead. If so, we’d better have a mandatory waiting period before they are refrigerated or embalmed!

I don’t mean to sound like a jerk with that statement, I’m serious. It would be terrible to regain consciousness in the morgue! And it would be terrible to refrigerate someone who isn’t actually in the afterlife to stay and kill them that way.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Thank you. 🙂

I don’t call people in the first scenario actually dead. But I have read of cases where people have actually been sent to the morgue then have revived on their own, before refrigeration, of course. So it would seem the medical profession isn’t quite sure what dead is, either. Either that or people really do return from the actual dead. If so, we’d better have a mandatory waiting period before they are refrigerated or embalmed!

I don’t mean to sound like a jerk with that statement, I’m serious. It would be terrible to regain consciousness in the morgue! And it would be terrible to refrigerate someone who isn’t actually in the afterlife to stay and kill them that way.
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That used to be the norm. Before embalming became the norm around 1865, a “wake” was in fact people sitting up with the body to make sure they weren’t going to “wake up.”

And in the same era, there was a deep fear by some of being buried alive, as some conditions can suppress the vitality, even the breathing, far enough to appear dead.

The fact is there is a continuum between cases 1 and 2, and the “afterlife” can have aborted takeoffs.

ICXC NIKA.
 
GEddie said:
That used to be the norm. Before embalming became the norm around 1865, a “wake” was in fact people sitting up with the body to make sure they weren’t going to “wake up.”

And in the same era, there was a deep fear by some of being buried alive, as some conditions can suppress the vitality, even the breathing, far enough to appear dead.

The fact is there is a continuum between cases 1 and 2, and the “afterlife” can have aborted takeoffs.

ICXC NIKA.
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I think wakes should become mandatory!

This should convince all the people who are already leaning toward NDEs being real experiences of the afterlife:

near-death.com/science/evidence/people-have-ndes-while-brain-dead.html

It didn’t convince me. Though I do believe in the afterlife, in Christ, in heaven, hell, and purgatory, I’m still skeptical about NDEs. I really don’t know why. I’d rather believe in them than not, but I just don’t. Not even the one described. I know if I were having that surgery, I would read up on it in detail before. It sounds horrendous.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Do you mean from monitor read-outs, etc.? I’m not sure we’re all using the definition of “dead.”
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I doctor declares a patient dead and they’re being prepped for the morgue.

However, as the orderly is putting the tag on the toe, the body begins to move and the person begins to wake up.

If the person didn’t wake up, they’d be eventually be placed into a grave.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
I doctor declares a patient dead and they’re being prepped for the morgue.

However, as the orderly is putting the tag on the toe, the body begins to move and the person begins to wake up.

If the person didn’t wake up, they’d be eventually be placed into a grave.

Jim
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Thank you.

Yes, I have read about people who have awakened in the morgue! How terrible! But at least they woke before they were buried alive or on an autopsy table. But how many did not?

I think the process of dying might take longer than people have thought. I really don’t know. And I’m serious about bringing back the wake. Given that some people “wake up” after being pronounced dead, I think it’s a good idea if they’re left alone for a few days.
 
For public-health reasons, I doubt that bodies would again be left unembalmed for “several days.”

The use of embalming and other westernized death-rituals has convinced us that death is something swift and final, but that is not always the case.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
For public-health reasons, I doubt that bodies would again be left unembalmed for “several days.”

The use of embalming and other westernized death-rituals has convinced us that death is something swift and final, but that is not always the case.

ICXC NIKA
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Yes, I do agree with you. And, if someone is embalmed, I don’t think we have to wonder if he or she is “really” dead any longer.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Thank you.

Yes, I have read about people who have awakened in the morgue! How terrible! But at least they woke before they were buried alive or on an autopsy table. But how many did not?

I think the process of dying might take longer than people have thought. I really don’t know. And I’m serious about bringing back the wake. Given that some people “wake up” after being pronounced dead, I think it’s a good idea if they’re left alone for a few days.
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How many did not ?

How could we know what people who didn’t awake experience ?

Jim
 
thistle said:
Catholics may not believe in reincarnation.

CCC 1013 Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. When “the single course of our earthly life” is completed, we shall not return to other earthly lives: “It is appointed for men to die once.”** There is no “reincarnation” after death.**
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I just want to make it clear…I do not believe in reincarnation, not even a little bit. I was just saying Ive read some NDEs where people see things to make them believe this is the case.(but these NDEs are rare).
 
mikekle said:
I just want to make it clear…I do not believe in reincarnation, not even a little bit. I was just saying Ive read some NDEs where people see things to make them believe this is the case.(but these NDEs are rare).
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I don’t think they are rare, Mikekle. A Jewish doctor, Brian Weiss, has written a book filled with them called Many Lives, Many Masters. I read it some time ago, but didn’t put any stock in it because I don’t believe NDEs are an experience of the afterlife. I, too, don’t believe in reincarnation, or soulmates, but his cases were as convincing as people who are Christians. I was just saying that we can’t really choose to believe only the ones that conform to our beliefs and discard the others. There are actually many accounts of people who experienced past lives, but I do admit, some of these were experienced during hypnosis, not NDEs, and hypnosis can be manipulated:

amazon.com/Many-Lives-Masters-Prominent-Psychiatrist/dp/0671657860/ref=pd_bxgy_14_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0CRBXCZ30Y8NRCK7FJ25

amazon.com/Does-Soul-Survive-Journey-Afterlife/dp/1580231659

amazon.com/Only-Love-Is-Real-Soulmates/dp/0446672653/ref=pd_bxgy_14_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=01DV4TZ39WD8QZM3PJV7

amazon.com/Same-Soul-Many-Bodies-Progression/dp/0743264347/ref=pd_bxgy_14_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1F896E31SM2ZRFNY2VK1
 
Mikekle, in all fairness to you, I think I may have been thinking of past lives and hypnosis rather than past lives and NDEs, so I would say you’re right, and I’m wrong.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Mikekle, in all fairness to you, I think I may have been thinking of past lives and hypnosis rather than past lives and NDEs, so I would say you’re right, and I’m wrong.
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I would be interested to learn about the NDEe that did involve reincarnation, if the person believed in this beforehand or not.

Hypnosis and past lives is another bird, that can be manipulated, but there have been some strange cases of young kids knowing information they could not possibly have learned from parents, tv, etc, Im not saying they were reincarnated, but how they got this knowledge was probably thru something we do not understand.
 
mikekle said:
I would be interested to learn about the NDEe that did involve reincarnation, if the person believed in this beforehand or not.

Hypnosis and past lives is another bird, that can be manipulated, but there have been some strange cases of young kids knowing information they could not possibly have learned from parents, tv, etc, Im not saying they were reincarnated, but how they got this knowledge was probably thru something we do not understand.
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I realize you don’t believe in reincarnation, Mikekle, neither do I. And, I apologize. You were right, and I was wrong - the reincarnation experiences I was remembering had more to do with hypnosis than NDEs.

I, too, believe hypnosis can be manipulated, but the author I liked to, Brian Weiss, I think it is, has done extensive research with hypnosis and past lives. He thoroughly believes in them. You might find some of his books interesting, but they do not involve NDEs.

After looking more carefully at his books on Amazon, I realized I don’t know of any books of NDEs and past lives. As you say, they must be very rare.

I apologize for my confusion. 😊
 
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