What is the cause of poor catechesis?

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Why hasn’t the hierarchy created a program for all parishes worldwide where intensive scripture study, reading the catechism and studying sacred tradition is combined and taught systematically? It’s my opinion that the inability to defend Catholicism from scripture and sacred tradition renders the laity ill equipped to defend the faith.
 
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glencor63 said:
Why hasn’t the hierarchy created a program for all parishes worldwide
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Because that wouldn’t work. I’ve been assigned to over a half dozen parishes as a seminarian and a priest, and the needs of each are sufficiently different that a one-size-fits-all approach would prove highly ineffective. And all those parishes are in the same Diocese, within three hours of one another. It definitely wouldn’t work all over the world, where cultural differences would be a thousand times greater from place to place.

The Church doesn’t function top-down when it comes to the governing on the ground, at least not ideally. That’s why the Code of Canon Law is so brief a document at only about 100 pages, and yet it covers the whole world. It sets up basic, general principles, but relies on subsidiarity. The local bishops and the pastors under them have to use prudence and discernment to determine what works best for them.

-Fr ACEGC
 
Why wouldn’t it work to mandate that any catechesis program combine the study of scripture and scared tradition? Confirmation should not be allowed, unless sufficient knowledge of WHY and WHAT the Catholic Church teaches and believes to be true is demonstrated.
 
There is a word for this in education reform: hyper-rationalism.

Father is correct that it doesnt work.
 
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I am not a sports fan.

I understand the rules of baseball and American football and basketball, and if I am with a group of people who want to attend or watch a game I am able to help them root for their team, I would not choose to watch or go to a game on my own. It would be apt to say I know ABOUT baseball, basketball, football.

If someone offered a course on baseball, something that went into statistics at depth, let’s say “fantasy baseball” training camp, I would not attend because I do not have a love for the game. I have only head knowledge. Were I forced to attend this training, I am bright and would memorize enough to pass the test and then I would not retain it as it is not meaningful to me.

Now, on the other hand, if I fell in love with a baseball player, or if someone I love deeply like my child picked up baseball, I wound eagerly learn stats and minute details and I would treasure this knowledge because of my relationship with a real person. I would go out of my way to learn more, to experience more baseball.

We can force kids to memorize XYZ in order to pass the test to receive a Sacrament. If they do not have a relationship of love with the person of Christ, these will simply be memorized and then forgotten.

Catechesis comes after evangelization if it is going to be meaningful.
 
The Holy Spirit guides the church. Every parish needs formation in different ways, so a mass-produced (no pun intended!) Approach wouldn’t help much. What is really needed are spirit-filled leaders who understand the spiritual needs of their parish and help fill them. 🙂
 
glencor63 said:
Confirmation should not be allowed, unless sufficient knowledge of WHY and WHAT the Catholic Church teaches and believes to be true is demonstrated.
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Your understanding of the sacrament of confirmation, and sacraments in general, needs some additional study if you believe sacramental grace is tied to a knowledge test.

Reminder: infants are confirmed in the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
 
First off, the Church has already said that, in numerous teaching documents, as a general principle. But it wouldn’t work to establish a standard, universal curriculum all over the world, which is what it seemed like you were talking about.

Second off, what you say about Confirmation is neither canonically nor theologically true. Infants are confirmed in some circumstances, both universally in the Eastern Churches, and in emergency situations in the Latin Church. I, for one, would advocate returning to the “restored order” of the sacraments, wherein Confirmation occurs before First Communion. None of the sacraments impart grace contingent upon our understanding of them, save for perhaps marriage, which is a bit of a different animal. Our insistence upon intellectual understanding as a prerequisite is part of the problem; it’s as though we don’t believe that grace works without understanding, which leads to a lot of the pastoral issues we have. Start confirming young children and let the grace of the sacrament guide them as they get older, and I guarantee you will see many of them more faithful and more understanding of their faith.

-Fr ACEGC
 
Reminds me of Muslim scripture classes. I don’t know how that will cultivate a relationship, especially with young children. It may just seem like a very legalistic, boring subject to them.

This isn’t to say that studying scripture is bad. I think a bottom up approach is better.

For my situation, it was bad because the adults in my parish are too out of touch with what youths want to learn about. Kept going through beatitudes, when we wanted to know why we believe in certain things.
 
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When I taught 4th grade catechesis there was very little, if any scripture. The children did not have a bible to read, along with their catechism lesson. I’m a convert. I was appalled. I made it my mission to impart a high view of scripture.

“Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ”.

-Saint Jerome
 
How can a person be considered formed in the faith when rudimentary knowledge of scripture and sacred tradition is lacking. There is an evangelist on You Tube that challenges people on matters of faith. Inevitably, the Catholic response to how you are saved is being a “good person”, which is completely false. We are saved by Grace, but this is rarely the response.
 
I don’t disagree. We are hoooorrriiiibbleee at scripture and defending ourselves at times.
glencor63 said:
hierarchy created a program for all parishes worldwide where intensive scripture study, reading the catechism and studying sacred tradition is combined and taught systematically
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I just think we believe this isn’t the way to solve the issue, though. Unless we’re thinking of two different things.
 
And always will be.

If we have to rely on catechetical programs as the primary form of catechesis, we will raise a generation of secular adults.
 
glencor63 said:
When I taught 4th grade catechesis there was very little, if any scripture.
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Seems like a localized problem. Every textbook I’ve been involved with (many, since I’ve been teaching religious Ed for 25 years and have been in charge of it in my parish for the last 10) has scripture lessons, scripture in each lesson, etc. they have to be to be approved textbooks.

And we have classroom sets of bibles. Bible story videos and picture bibles for the littles.

Not sure how your global Catechism idea would really change that, if quality standards aren’t implemented at the local level, so instead it’s better to approach your pastor and DRE to talk about changes.

The general directory for catechesis is a good place to start with what is supposed to be implemented (globally).
glencor63 said:
The children did not have a bible to read, along with their catechism lesson.
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Again, not sure how some sort of global mandate would really solve the problem which seems to be that your parish lacked proper tools. Even with a global curriculum one must still make the effort to follow it.
glencor63 said:
I’m a convert
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Me too!
 
Worse than the inability to defend the Faith, is the ignorance of the Faith, the inability to therefore live the Faith, and the inability to grow in the Faith and thus reach our human vocation of sanctity in Christ unto eternity.

Every now and then a “document” is issued from the hierarchy - a Pope, the Vatican, a Council of Catholic Bishops, a Diocese - affirming again the importance of catechesis and right formation in the Faith. The documents are dutifully entered into the library of Church Documents, and all remains as it was before. Most in the laity are never disturbed by reports of such violations of parish tranquility.

My personal answer to the question, “What is the cause of poor catechesis,” is the absolutely firm and unbreakable commandment that parish tranquility must not ever be disturbed. Status quo must be maintained. Horrible things might happen…

It will take divine power to upset the apple cart. Come, Lord Jesus! Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your people - kindle in us the fire of your love!
 
I was taught Scripture in my Catholic grade school and high school. To be honest, virtually every lesson was Scripture-based, and I had more difficulty learning about sacred traditions and the history of the Church after Scripture ended. We had one Church History course, but it was too short and one of the teachers handling it was a very poor teacher.
 
Because this may be the issue you are seeing with the people you are around. In my parish, this isn’t a common problem. Here, the primary issue is people seeing the church mainly as a social club that doesn’t extend out beyond the four walls, and largely an arm of the democratic party, in that what is happening in my parish fits more closely with a political party rather than church teachings. What is needed in your area isn’t really needed here. This is why we need spirit filled leaders that recognize the common issues and address those specifically.
 
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Millions of people have left the Catholic Church. The way the faith is being taught is not working. Look at Central and South America, especially Brazil. Ex-Catholics form the third largest denomination in the US!

The hidden exodus: Catholics becoming Protestants

ViewpointThe number of people who have left the Catholic church is huge.We all have heard stories about why people leave. Parents share stories about their children. Academics talk about their students. Everyone has a friend who has left.
www.ncronline.org www.ncronline.org
 
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