What is the cause of poor catechesis?

[Tis_Bearself]

There are many reasons why people are leaving the Church, the main ones being that they disagree with the moral rules, are disillusioned by the scandals, don’t see a need for religion or at least organized religion in their life, and/or find more social and entertainment opportunities at some other church. Better catechesis is unlikely to solve all these problems. It might possibly address the issues of the small percentage who leave over an actual issue of doctrine or unbelief.

 

[edwest211]

Father,

Respectfully, there needs to be a solution, not endless meetings and discussions. The approach should be a set of guidelines with branches that can be added. This will create a useful picture of what is going on, for example, in the English speaking countries. The West, Europe and North America, were and are hardest hit by a dedicated secularism that can be identified as far as a list of wrong messages. Chief among them are wrong uses of human sexuality including a total disregard for life in the womb.

Best regards,
Ed

 

[edward_george1]

I’m not sure how you get from what I said that “endless meetings and discussions” is the solution, or is what we should do instead of having a discussion. I’m honestly not sure how what you’ve said is an answer to what I’ve said. Perhaps you could explain to me the deficiency in my post?

 

[DIERM]

Why wouldn’t it work to mandate that any catechesis program combine the study of scripture and scared tradition?

Some mandates are meaningless…it’s up to the individual to seek Truth.
There seems to be a mandate against sin, and that doesn’t seem to be working out too well.

 

[DIERM]

I’m a convert

Yes you are…as we all are…conversion is the turning away from sin, toward God…something that if we ever feel we no longer have the need for, we jeopardize our salvation…So, when it comes to our faith, there are no “Cradle Catholics” or “Converts”, but only those in full communion with the One Holy, catholic, and Apostolic Church.

 

[1ke]

Millions of people have left the Catholic Church.

Millions of people have left non-Catholic churches too. And the other non-Christian religions, too.

This isn’t unique to Catholicism.

And while there are Catholics who leave the faith, there are non-Catholics who join. It’s never a good thing when a Catholic falls away from the faith, but your statements regarding catechesis are overly simplistic.

The way the faith is being taught is not working.

Again: parents are the primary educators of their children in the faith. The faith must be lived, in the home and in the world. The faith is taught primarily in the context of daily living and home life.

Look at Central and South America, especially Brazil.

There are a number of cultural and political reasons for the state of belief and practice in Central and South American countries, in addition to the rise of affluence and the impact of secular culture and the media.

 

[1ke]

The approach should be a set of guidelines with branches that can be added

You mean like the General Directory for Catechesis?

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...doc_17041998_directory-for-catechesis_en.html

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Another classic from Eye of the Tiber:

"Washington, DC––Thousands of the nation’s ill-catechized Catholics protested outside the USCCB headquarters in Washington, DC last night, demanding better catechesis so as to better understand what Church teachings they are going to continue to ignore. "

Nation's Catholics Demand Better Catechesis To Better Understand What Teachings To Ignore | EOTT LLC

 

[PetraG]

In my experience, causes of poor catechesis include:
a) the parents don’t know the faith and seem to think that knowing more than they do is for “fanatics.”
b) the family does not see religious education as the work of a lifetime, but believe there is no reason to know more than is required during preparation for the sacraments of initiation.
c) the program does not or cannot treat religious education as a serious academic subject rather than a periodic “exposure experience.”
d) a shortage of well-informed Catholics willing to serve as catechists
e) parental belief that participation in religious education, unlike every other educational subject their children have in school, depends on the interest level of the child.
f) a disconnect in the parents between formal education generally and what is lived in “real life.”

Considering that we’ve had roughly 50 years of weak academics in catechesis, if we want to make catechesis of children better we probably need to get the adults more interested in becoming lifelong learners…and I mean before they become grandparents!!

 

[glencor63]

I am not referring to the East. I am well aware that Baptism, Confirmation, and First Communion occurs when most Eastern Rite Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians are baptized as infants. I disagree with this practice, while respecting that the East have their own practices and traditions. I think the Sacrament of Confirmation and First Communion should take place much, much later.

 

[1ke]

I am not referring to the East. I am well aware that Baptism, Confirmation, and First Communion occurs when most Eastern Rite Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Christians are baptized as infants.

But we cannot ignore the East, as infant confirmation is valid and licit. And it speaks directly to the argument that one must have some sort of prerequisite knowledge (and a test no less) in order to receive the sacrament. This is patently false.

 

[glencor63]

It’s valid and licit. I just disagree with confirming infants or giving them communion. I don’t view my faith as one where I mainly receive grace through sacraments, but as a faith of knowledgeable assent to Jesus Christ in thought, words, and deeds. The sacraments were not the primary reason I converted. I became Roman Catholic because I believed it had the fullness of the faith, but the focus seems to be primarily on receiving sacraments. I want a balance in my faith. Right now, it’s skewed towards one extreme. I am not being completely nurtured.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

To be fair, education in general has become increasingly dumbed down, and not just in the area of religious education.

 

[otjm]

I hate to be a spoil-sport, but we already have two generations of secular adults. Much if not most of that can be traced back to the chaos of the 1970’s, when the Baltimore Catechism was replaced with pablum.

And I am not suggesting in the least that we go back strictly or even necessarily primarily to the BC; but the statistics I think bear me out;

CARA did a study of Mass attendance and broke it down by age group; and to no particular surprise, the then over 50 years old group had the highest rate of Mass attendance of over 50%; the lowest age groups was 18 to about 29; 18%. While I agree that the primary teachers of the Faith are the parents; I shudder at the same time, as well less than 50% manage to attend Mass regularly. And I really can’t say that those not attending regularly are either well catechized or well evangelized. They are the prime example of secularized adults.

 

[OSN]

Why hasn’t the hierarchy created a program for all parishes worldwide where intensive scripture study, reading the catechism and studying sacred tradition is combined and taught systematically? It’s my opinion that the inability to defend Catholicism from scripture and sacred tradition renders the laity ill equipped to defend the faith.

Why, because it requires common sense to do exactly what you just said in regards of it being initiated by the hierarchy / monarchy /papacy.

It isn’t a bad at all with what you have there glen, If the USA and other nations have departments of education, it only goes to figure that maybe the Head of State of Rome should consider creating such a department.

 

[otjm]

I am not sure the matter is about upsetting the parish apple cart; those not attending arre in the great majority (Mass attendance being overall somewhere about 23%); you can’t teach someone who does not show up.

 

[1ke]

I don’t view my faith as one where I mainly receive grace through sacraments,

And yet, the Church teaches that is where we do in fact receive sacramental grace.

but as a faith of knowledgeable assent to Jesus Christ in thought, words, and deeds.

That is important too. By grace, through faith, working in love.

The sacraments were not the primary reason I converted. I became Roman Catholic because I believed it had the fullness of the faith

And the Church teaches the sacraments ARE the primary means of sanctifying grace. In fact the Eucharist is the source and summit of the faith.

I see we are coming to the heart of your issue with Catholic catechesis— you haven’t yet come to understand the sacraments, truly, or the faith as a lived reality.

but the focus seems to be primarily on receiving sacraments

Well, yes, because that is what Jesus established the Church for: the sacraments. The means of sanctifying grace. Without which we cannot enter the beatific vision.

 

[edwest211]

Thank you.

why didn’t somebody tell me they had this

 

[edwest211]

Bad Catechesis was caused by people, including dissidents inside The Church, starting in the late 1960s. Latin was available in the first year of Catholic High School but was dropped in 1970. Why?

The Baltimore Catechism is available and sound.

Those same people accused parents of being ‘fanatics’ and other things in an attempt to shut them up.
Religious education did not go from important to unimportant overnight. It took about 5 years for bad catechesis to take hold. Thanks to the radicals outside the Church who kept after young people and telling them to use drugs and misuse sex, parents had to deal with their kids who thought they were “free.” No-Fault Divorce (1980s) damaged families, and damaged relationships with in-laws. But why was this invented out of thin air law making any progress? Because in the 1970s, radical feminists were at war with men. They harmed women. They told them that your husband will leave you. Trust us. We’re your “sisters.” That fake sense of fear and alarm created fertile ground for No-Fault Divorce.

The worst thing a woman could be was a stay at home mom, they said. That’s changed and more husbands and wives are home schooling and giving their kids the educations they need.

 

[PetraG]

Bad Catechesis was caused by people, including dissidents inside The Church, starting in the late 1960s. Latin was available in the first year of Catholic High School but was dropped in 1970. Why?

The Baltimore Catechism is available and sound.

Those same people accused parents of being ‘fanatics’ and other things in an attempt to shut them up.
Religious education did not go from important to unimportant overnight. It took about 5 years for bad catechesis to take hold. Thanks to the radicals outside the Church who kept after young people and telling them to use drugs and misuse sex, parents had to deal with their kids who thought they were “free.” No-Fault Divorce (1980s) damaged families, and damaged relationships with in-laws. But why was this invented out of thin air law making any progress? Because in the 1970s, radical feminists were at war with men. They harmed women. They told them that your husband will leave you. Trust us. We’re your “sisters.” That fake sense of fear and alarm created fertile ground for No-Fault Divorce.

The worst thing a woman could be was a stay at home mom, they said. That’s changed and more husbands and wives are home schooling and giving their kids the educations they need.

Latin was dropped at my high school because there were only 6 of us in the first year class while there were 25-30 enrolled in French. There were more students arranging to take Spanish and German at the public high school than students willing to learn Latin.

Catechesis standards in the 1960s and 1970s dropped in tandem with academic standards that looked down on memorized knowledge generally. I remember learning out of the Baltimore Catechism at our parish (because we were public school kids and had no parish school) and being shocked at the ignorance of students who went to the Catholic grade schools. It wasn’t just facts of the faith. They weren’t taught how to diagram sentences, either.

This was not in a community that looked favorably on divorce. It was just a time in education that failed to see the value of knowing things off of the top of your head. It was a mistake. Their principal and school board bought the new ideas about education and ours didn’t. Just as your body benefits from lifting weights that don’t need to be moved and running when no one is chasing you, your mind benefits from exercises, even exercises that don’t “accomplish” anything.