What is the cause of poor catechesis?

[esieffe]

The church can only contribute so much to our catechesis, most of it is on us. I think that the failure comes when after we are given the very basics, we stop when the class is over, and that is your answer. The classes are only a starting point.

 

[glencor63]

You speak with such authority! No one understands me among cradle Catholics, save one friend.

 

[fide]

When Scripture is misrepresented, misunderstood, incompletely heard and obeyed, founding a body of beliefs in a religious group - a body of doctrine that is incomplete at best and error-contaminated at worst, the result necessarily is a “Jesus” incompletely known and believed in, or at worst a false Jesus - in effect an idol - “known and believed in.”

This happens when a “sola scriptura” doctrine dominates the religious body. Since God is not the foundation of such a belief, it is based on the fallible and faulty interpretations of men - and thus, a false Jesus, a false christology, a false ecclesiology, a false soteriology - darkness where the soul hungers for the holy and pure light of truth.

 

[1ke]

I want it to be a priority in the Catholic Church.

You are acting as if it isn’t. Which is a complete fallacy.

I don’t want my faith to be just a series of sacraments.

You are the only one making that argument. The Church isn’t. No one on this thread is.

 

[JimG]

Indeed, Jesus’ words will never pass away. That does not mean that written bibles will always be available, or even that one must be able to read to be saved. In some regimes, bibles are banned. In some societies, few people knew how to read. But Jesus words will never pass away, because they are incorporated into His Church.

 

[glencor63]

I’m familiar with Sola Scriptura. I don’t advocate Sola Scriptura. That’s not what I’m arguing. Please reread my posts.

 

[PeterT]

Every now and then a “document” is issued from the hierarchy - a Pope, the Vatican, a Council of Catholic Bishops, a Diocese - affirming again the importance of catechesis and right formation in the Faith. The documents are dutifully entered into the library of Church Documents, and all remains as it was before. Most in the laity are never disturbed by reports of such violations of parish tranquility.

My personal answer to the question, “What is the cause of poor catechesis,” is the absolutely firm and unbreakable commandment that parish tranquility must not ever be disturbed. Status quo must be maintained. Horrible things might happen…

It will take divine power to upset the apple cart. Come, Lord Jesus! Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of your people - kindle in us the fire of your love!

Sadly that’s so true in many parishes, including my own. And it’s the paid lay staff of my parish that wants to maintain the ineffective status quo come hell or high water. Even when we get a new pastor or priest, the staff resists any changes the new priests want to bring about. Changes in my parish only come about when the pastor works with select members of the laity to implement changes that the paid staff are reluctant to implement even at the request of the pastor.

 

[PeterT]

In theory that is somewhat how it should be: (though technically it’s the local ordinary (the diocesan bishop) actually has the final word in regards to parish) followed by the pastor.

In reality, at my parish the staff tends to ignore the directives of our pastors unless it’s something they agree with. It shouldn’t be the case, but that’s the reality of the situation.

 

[kainosktisis]

Better catechesis is unlikely to solve all these problems. It might possibly address the issues of the small percentage who leave over an actual issue of doctrine or unbelief.

I respectfully disagree.

From Proverbs 22 NABRE (USCCB):

Proverbs, CHAPTER 22 | USCCB

6
Train the young in the way they should go;
even when old, they will not swerve from it

.

 

[PeterT]

In regards to this thread topic (poor catechesis), I truly believe people are putting the cart in front of the horse if they think the reason why people are leaving the Catholic Church or aren’t being faithful practitioners of our Catholic faith is the result of poor catechesis.

The reason has far more to do with the general lack of faith many Catholics have in Jesus our Lord and Savior and his gospel message (the Kerygma).

Trying to catechize people who are basically non-believers (even if they’ve already been baptized) is a futile uphill battle. Yet every year catechists spend an inordinate amount of time every Sunday trying to do just that.

True believers have a hunger for the knowledge of the Church and can be catechized effectively by any knowledgeable catechist. But those who don’t really believe (those being forced by the parents to attend CCD so they can receive their First Communion (or later on Confirmation)) are simply not receptive to even the most rudimentary catechism.

For those children, time is better spent trying to increase their faith and trust in God (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and finding ways to show them how much God truly loves each and every one of them. Once they start to love God, then they’ll start to learn well the Catechism of our Church.

 

[blackforest]

Growing up Anglican, I received my first communion and confirmation simultaneously at age 10. Learning how Catholics do it was a wee bit confusing . . .

Why hasn’t the hierarchy created a program for all parishes worldwide where intensive scripture study, reading the catechism and studying sacred tradition is combined and taught systematically?

Learning about the Catholic faith is a lifelong process and that must be embarked upon willingly by Catholics, not mandated upon them from on high. To that end, at more than one parish, I’ve enjoyed hearing priests deliver “teaching homilies” that instruct parishioners in facets of Catholicism. My own priest offers adult ed classes that are standing-room-only if you’re so much as five minutes late.

 

[babochka]

Latin was available in the first year of Catholic High School but was dropped in 1970. Why?

Latin was available in my Catholic High school until the day the school closed, in 1989. Sister Mercy, the Latin teacher, then transferred to the boys’ High School (which became co-ed after the closure of the girls’ school) and taught it there for another decade. All the Catholic High Schools in my city currently offer Latin as an elective.

The Baltimore Catechism is available and sound.

My dad and his siblings grew up in the 1940s and 1950s, the supposed Golden Age of Catholic Catechesis. Their Catholic schools used the Baltimore Catechism. They had it memorized, said their prayers, went to Mass. Only two of the eight of them died a practicing Catholic. My dad’s uncle’s family, on the other hand… They grew up in the same neighborhood, went to the same parish schools, had the same teachers, used the same Baltimore Catechism. This family of 13 produced one nun, two religious brothers (one of whom became a priest), and an additional priest. The difference? The faith life of the parents. My grandfather got angry at a priest and refused to go to Church. He sent his children to Catholic school and they walked to Mass every Sunday, almost always without their parents. Not surprisingly, all the memorization of the Baltimore Catechism in the world didn’t keep those kids in the Church, although most of them still claimed the title Catholic. Their children (my cousins) don’t even call themselves Catholic anymore. My great-uncle’s family is full of faithful and practicing Catholics in my generation.

 

[PetraG]

If my soul is better fed, yes! I can’t subsist on just the sacraments. Nothing takes the place of the word of God. Not the sacraments, adoration, the rosary, lives of the saints, Mass, nothing! Without a consistent diet of scripture study, I am bereft.

It might help you to realize that the Rosary and the Liturgy of the Hours are just traditional ways of meditating on the Bible. The mysteries of the Rosary are stories from the New Testament. This is what Pope St. John Paul II said about this in his encyclical, Rosarium Virginis Mariae, introducing the Luminous Mysteries:
Consequently, for the Rosary to become more fully a “compendium of the Gospel”, it is fitting to add, following reflection on the Incarnation and the hidden life of Christ ( the joyful mysteries ) and before focusing on the sufferings of his Passion ( the sorrowful mysteries ) and the triumph of his Resurrection ( the glorious mysteries ), a meditation on certain particularly significant moments in his public ministry ( the mysteries of light ). This addition of these new mysteries, without prejudice to any essential aspect of the prayer’s traditional format, is meant to give it fresh life and to enkindle renewed interest in the Rosary’s place within Christian spirituality as a true doorway to the depths of the Heart of Christ, ocean of joy and of light, of suffering and of glory.

You do not find this method of contemplation and reflection on the Word of God to be particularly fruitful. Well, there is lectio divina, which is also a very old tradition, albeit not one available in ages when literacy was not so high as it is today. By all means, feed your soul on studying the Bible and contemplating what the Word of God says to you through it. Nothing could be more in keeping with the riches of our faith. It is good that you have a hunger for that! Were I you, I would consider that a blessing, like being someone who only liked the taste of healthy food or didn’t feel comfortable unless they can have regular exercise. You have a hunger for a healthy thing!! That’s a good thing!

We don’t read the Bible primarily to defend the faith to other people, though. We read it primarily so it can work on us, right? As Pope Francis put it: “If we always carried God’s Word in our hearts, no temptation would distance us from the Father, and no obstacle would take us off the path towards good.” He has repeatedly challenged Catholics to always carry a copy of the New Testament with them and to reflect on it often. That is quite different than catechesis with the goal of “rational defense.”

Be careful that you are not dismissive of those who do not have the same hunger or who satisfy that hunger in ways that don’t work for you. This is not good! As Thomas Merton put it: “One of the first things to learn if you want to be a contemplative is to mind your own business. Nothing is more suspicious, in a man who seems holy, than an impatient desire to reform other men.” His point was that concern over people who haven’t come to us for counsel and over whom we have no jurisdiction prevents us from reaching a state of peace.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

No one except yourself is making you “choose” between Eucharist and scripture. Scripture is the story of the Eucharist. It gives us the necessary understanding to appreciate the Eucharist. The Word became flesh and the Eucharist is that flesh. I fail to see a conflict here unless someone wishes to create one in their own mind. The creation of such a conflict seems very Protestant to me and I can’t say I understand it.

 

[glencor63]

I am concerned that the Catholic hierarchy does not universally have a high view of scripture.

 

[goout]

Good catechesis is the presentation of a life, not merely the dissemination of information.
Scripture
Tradition
The living Magisterium
These all witness to the living Christ.

We as disciples take catechesis out of the abstract and put flesh on it when we witness to Christ with our whole lives.
A disciple is not one who complains about how hard it is. A disciple is one who witness to the awesome and abundant power of God working in his life. You can sum this up in a phrase like this:
“Let me tell you what Christ has done in my life”.

This is what people are thirsting for: the love of Christ. It is life transforming.
Scripture is for Christ, not the other way around.
We have the word made flesh and dwelling among us, not the flesh made word.

 

[fide]

I didn’t mean to imply that you were advocating sola scriptura - I brought that term/belief into the conversation because some Catholics I have known were so hungry for Scripture, and so frustrated by this issue snd other issues/problems they were having with the Church, left the Church to go to ‘sola’ protestant parishes. These were examples of leaping to an extreme in desperation - not a good option.

There are many factors to consider in responding rightly to deficiencies existing in a given local Catholic parish. Leaving the whole Church is never a good response.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I am concerned that the Catholic hierarchy does not universally have a high view of scripture.

I don’t know where you’ve gotten that impression, but it’s incorrect.

Not only have I grown up in the Church for 50 years with a Scripture emphasis, Scripture is involved with not only every Mass but with every prayer service because prayer is supposed to always involve Scripture, and the Catechism cites Scripture all over the place.

If, however, you mean, “The Catholic Church does not agree with my own personal interpretation of Scripture and thus they don’t care about Scripture,” that’s a different problem…mostly your own problem.

 

[fide]

I wonder if that continues to exist because the bishop supports the staff - or is afraid of them, and/or law suits for firing the non-compliant staff - “termination of employment without due process and due cause”. The Church is not a business!!! But I’ve seen staff who think of it that way, and probably the secular authorities (and law) see it as any other “business”.

 

[glencor63]

Scripture is NOT just for Christ! Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ! The word of God is our life’s blood. Without the word of God we walk in a wilderness without direction.