What is the cause of the recent rise in traditional Catholicism and spirituality?

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I was about 8 yrs. old when they took away our Catechism books and replaced them with what I call the love and peace religion books in the late 60’s. These new religion books did not teach us our faith, the sacred traditions, or devotions. This is still happening in Catholic Schools where I live. There are still many people that prefer the meal rather than the sacrifice, the modern music over the traditional. What a tragedy. I left the church at 18 because I did not like the folk music and I did not get anything out of the mass because I did not know what it was about.
I didn’t know my faith until I came back to the Church 8 yrs. ago. Still many others are in the dark.

I know quite a few young people who are part of this recent rise in traditional Catholicism. Alleluia!!!
I think that their generation has had so much excess in their lives that they started to say now what? So now they are searching for the very Truth of God in their lives. They are not looking for relativism or a wishy-washy mass because it does not fulfill them. They are coming to know that only Jesus Christ can give them what they need. They seem to be drawn to the reverent priests, the sacredness of the TLM, the traditions, and the history of the Church.
 
You mean the new new this-time-it’s-right translation? And this will be sacred enough and sustainable enough to substitute for the actual languages of the cross? What are the odds that somewhere down the line some new line of bishops won’t find another reason to replace it again?
No, more like a street-vernacular-was-a-bad-idea-let’s-go-back-to-what-we-always-did kind of thing, and bishops remain bishops and not amateur liturgists. But why blame the bishops? They were just by and large railroaded by the liturgical committees.

The languages of the Cross, if you take Pilate’s inscription into account, were Aramaic, Latin and Greek. The language of the first Mass - the Last Supper - was Hebrew, which was never used in any subsequent liturgy. Interesting, no? 😉
 
This is all the work of God, not of human hands like most of the 60’s up until now. The cause is God. Things were going potty - if this recent rise in real Catholicism (as opposed to ‘trad Catholicism’ which makes it seem like a preference rather than the truth) is only a fad, I suspect we are in for a great chastisement of some kind. So lets double our efforts and pray for our priests who are offering the Latin Mass and encouraging real Catholicism. We need to get rid of psuedo-Catholic sacrilegous Masses and we need to draw a line in the sand for those 98% of Catholics who think it’s okay to contracept, to support abortion and gay marriage etc.
 
But why blame the bishops? They were just by and large railroaded by the liturgical committees.
Maybe, but in theory the bishops know the local language better than the Vatican. Aren’t they also in control of all the liturgical committees? I believe Vatican II gave the bishops this power.
The languages of the Cross, if you take Pilate’s inscription into account, were Aramaic, Latin and Greek. The language of the first Mass - the Last Supper - was Hebrew, which was never used in any subsequent liturgy.
Actually Pilate’s inscriptions were in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek, presumed to be the three most spoken and written languages at the time. All three languages are represented in the Latin Mass, both OF and EF, and it was sustainable for a long period of time. Latin and Greek have been virtually suppressed in today’s said Masses; there was no reason to do that and we need to change that.
Interesting, no? 😉
According to Tacitus, a Roman writer of a later period and no lover of Christians himself, Pilate was a very brutal individual. In fact, he is the only human (outside of the Virgin Mary) to be mentioned in the Credo. Yet, in his evil ways, he helped promote Chritianity to levels he probably never intended, especially among the Romans themselves.
 
If what you want is to get to heaven, then you need a priest who will remind you there’s a devil and hell exists and we should pray our rosaries and go to Confession and yes it is a sin to skip Mass, etc, etc, etc…So, I believe for many reason’s tradition’s the safer course to take if you want to get to heaven. People may be waking up and realizing that.

In some ways, the modern Church has lost it’s way… for example, how many Catholic wakes have you been to where people are standing around chatting like it’s a cocktail party instead of praying the rosary for the repose of the poor soul? What’s with that?!?!?! And then the deceased person is practically beatified at the funeral? I hope that never happens to me, please God. I want the prayers and Masses and rosaries said for my soul.
 
Maybe, but in theory the bishops know the local language better than the Vatican. Aren’t they also in control of all the liturgical committees? I believe Vatican II gave the bishops this power.
For the English speaking world at least the English translation of the Mass was determined by the ICEL committee, headed by Archbishop Dennis Hurley - of no fond memory. I don’t believe anglophone bishops in the world had any say in the matter, though I stand to be corrected.
Actually Pilate’s inscriptions were in Hebrew, Latin, and Greek, presumed to be the three most spoken and written languages at the time.
‘Hebraisti’, the Greek term St Luke and St John use is translated ‘in Hebrew’, but ***may ***be translated ‘in Hebraic’, i.e. in the language the Jews spoke at that time, which was largely, but not exclusively, Aramaic. It is interesting to note that in other places in the Gospels terms that are described as being ‘in Hebrew’ - ‘Golgotha’, ‘Gabbatha’, ‘Rabboni’ - are actually Aramaic.

There is an academic debate going on about this: a school of opinion holds that a later form of Hebrew was spoken as well as written by some Jews in the time of Christ, though Aramaic and Greek were the lingua francas in Palestine.

My point though is that the liturgical Hebrew of the Last Supper was not the contemporary spoken Hebrew/Aramaic of that time but an older form of Hebrew, and it was never used as the principal language of the liturgy, even though Christ had used it. At the end of the day it does not matter ***what ***language is employed in the Mass, provided it is phrased in reverent and fitting terms.
All three languages are represented in the Latin Mass, both OF and EF, and it was sustainable for a long period of time. Latin and Greek have been virtually suppressed in today’s said Masses; there was no reason to do that and we need to change that.
This is where I beg to differ. Liturgies in other languages grew up naturally in regions having no Latin or Greek cultural roots, and were never condemned by the Church. Our cultural link with Latin is nearly gone (though I personally am familiar with the language and very much prefer the Latin Mass), hence there is no longer the need to oblige the faithful to return to it.
 
I’ll say one thing for the record: I have been to a number of full-on OF parish Masses, and as a rule I have wasted my time trying to recollect myself and actually pray during them. I remember one Mass - a confirmation conducted by a Cardinal - where all I could do was enjoy the show. Music was pretty good though sentimental. The confirmands all Participated Actively with a reasonably smooth execution. I told Our Lord, sorry, no use even trying here. He seemed to understand.

But I have been quite regularly to an OF Mass (no EF Mass where I live) said by a hospital chaplain in a school chapel with perhaps three other people present, which was done with reverence - periods of silence, no handshakes (and certainly no handholding!), and at these the sense of Christ’s presence was at times almost palpable.

It really is a strange business.
 
Personally, I prefer the Latin Mass, because I’ve seen what sort of scum are being brought into the vernacular ones. The Latin Mass isn’t hard to understand, since Latin is deeply integrated into the Spanish language. Not to mention, it’s beautiful and the fact that it’s what men like St. Thomas More fought to keep in the Church and many others aswell.

Being a Latin Traditionalists is a symbol of identity, it is a part of who I am and what was fought to be preserved. Most people are usually searching for something that gives them an identity, and for those who believe that “our cultural link to Latin is gone”, I beg to differ. Latin will always be a part of us. Even now, when we speak the very words of Luna, it means the same in Latin. When we say Pater in Latin, in German it’s Vater, in English Father, in Spanish, Padre and in French, Père. You can’t deny the similarities.

Much of the culture today is somewhat different than in Roman days, but it is still heavily Christianized, and more Roman than what we care to know. But that’s not a bad thing. Maintaining and preserving parts of culture is one of the CC’s duties (Or at least, that’s how I’ve understood it).

-MontChevalier
 
Our cultural link with Latin is nearly gone (though I personally am familiar with the language and very much prefer the Latin Mass), hence there is no longer the need to oblige the faithful to return to it.
But if there is no need now, then there was never a need to begin with. The people already had their Vulgar(ized) Latin by the 3rd century and could have easily split with their own vernacular then. And where would be today had it not been some attempt at a common Cross-tied language that could be sustainable and unchanging? And it’s not just the Mass but Church documents and theology and philosophy as well. Not to mention Roman law and the very name of Jesus. (Imagine if that word were allowed to be morphed.)

But entropy is not generally reversible so I’ll give you that.
 
As far as the Trad trend being a CAF thing…I honestly do not see that. What I do see is a forum called Traditional Catholicism with a few people that display and defend traditional practices and thoughts. I see people cutting down others for not being open to religion hopping. Some people believe that Catholicism is a denomination among the many protestant branches but Catholicism just happens to be the fullest. Most people don’t even attend the EF. Just recently on another thread abortion was discussed and a forum member said she won’t be having sex ever again since she may die during birth due to abortion not being an option.
 
My take on the question:
  1. Many of those responsible for the changes have died, or are near it. Their converts/apostles of change are not as good at delivering the New Order as the originals.
  2. Catholics, especially the younger generations have tasted the New Order and found it Lacking. Therefore they began to educate themselves and have discovered the Truth of what it means to be Catholic.
  3. The internet has opened the vast quantity of Catholic history available to all Catholics. Just as every dictator has always known, knowledge is dangerous. Now that any Catholic can study Vatican documents, Papal encyclicals, Council documents, and the rich Tradition of The Church, they now are realizing what has been lost.
  4. The ever present feeling of a coming chastisement.
  5. Blessed +Pope John Paul II layed the foundation for the reform. His Holiness +Pope Benedict XVI is following through with the implementations.
  6. Our Ladies Prayers and the Holy Spirit.
Pax Christi
 
My 2 cents:

Fallen human nature tends towards lukewarmness. It’s easier to be spiritually lazy than to work hard at growing closer to Christ. Not surprisingly the vast majority of luke warm, spiritually lazy people who have just enough warmth in them to attend mass (at least once in a while), do so at whatever is the closest parish that says “Catholic” on the front sign.

Generally, most of these parishes contain at least a small core of committed, fired up believers who have committed their hearts to Christ and seek to be themselves conformed to Christ through his Grace and the guidance of his revelations to man. But the causual mass attender may not notice them until / unless he gets more involved in the parish.

Traditionalist parishes, on the other hand, have very few lukewarm pew sitters. The very nature of attending an EF liturgy is more work and less familiar and tends to only be attractive to those who have already abandoned themselves to Christ. Ask around at an EF place, people often drive 5-30 miles to get there. You’re hard pressed to find somebody in an OF mass who came more than 5 miles (in urban/suburban areas, anyways).

IMO, it is largely the experience of being in a critical mass of hard core believers that is so attractive. Everybody is tired of the 60’s hippie Jesus caricature presented in too many places as the gospel. People crave the experience of God Almighty, the Creator of the Universe, the One whom no mortal man can bear to see the face of! Many elements of the EF and their parish culture point to that transcendence in ways that the OF has often sadly abandoned:
  1. We all stand in line and move forward to receive Big Macs. No wonder people respond well to having a fundamentally DIFFERENT posture when they receive the Lord on the tongue when kneeling. Liturgy should follow theology.
  2. We are entertained constantly and it is too easy to see the consecration as just another show when the liturgy and position of the priest suggests it. But when we stand WITH him as one of us, but at our head at the time of consecration and we face God together, it’s different. WE aren’t the focus, we aren’t being addressed or entertained. God is being addressed by BOTH the priest and us. Once people get overthemselves, they recognize the the priest isn’t “turning his back one me, he’s facing God together with me.”
  3. Praying the ancient devotions connects us with the saints of the past and reminds us of the one-ness of the Church in Christ in ways that ‘centering’ (etc.) just can’t do.
  4. Adoring the Eucharist visibly and in a posture of prayer reinforces our belief in the Grace and miracle of the Sacrament.
See the pattern? Trads have their problems too, but that’s another thread isn’t it? 😉
This is the good stuff. This is what attracts people.
 
But if there is no need now, then there was never a need to begin with. The people already had their Vulgar(ized) Latin by the 3rd century and could have easily split with their own vernacular then.
Don’t quite follow this. Latin, which underwent very little development, remained the lingua franca of the western world for centuries after the fall the the Western Empire. And well after the division of the Empire among the barbarian tribes, there remained a sense of cultural unity that became actual unity under the Frankish Empire of Charlemagne. It was perfectly natural to keep a common language - one people were familiar with - for the liturgy as it was kept for writing, international communications, and anything else that went beyond strictly local and provincial dealings. That is not the situation today.
And where would be today had it not been some attempt at a common Cross-tied language that could be sustainable and unchanging? And it’s not just the Mass but Church documents and theology and philosophy as well. Not to mention Roman law and the very name of Jesus. (Imagine if that word were allowed to be morphed.)
Once the liturgical texts are fixed they tend not not evolve, even though the language they arose from does. This applies to any liturgical language, not just Latin. Look at the Book of Common Prayer.

The original Church documents on theology and philosophy and law are written and cannot be changed, and are the reference point for subsequent translations. If there are certain terms that cannot be accurately transcribed into a particular language, then one simply coins a new word in that language. ‘Transubstantiation’ is a good example. For this, granted, it is useful to have a single source language from which translations can be made and monitored. Hence the Vatican’s ongoing use of Latin for its official documents.

In 2000 years of linguistic development, ‘Iesus’ in Latin has become ‘Jesus’ in English, ‘Jesus’ In French, ‘Jesus’ in Spanish, ‘Jesus in German’, ‘Jesus’ in Portuguese, and so on. Not much of a morph. The biggest change in fact was from the original Hebrew term to Latin: ‘Yeshua’ - ‘Iesus’.
But entropy is not generally reversible so I’ll give you that.
A few things, fortunately, are unchanging, among which the Church’s perennial wisdom. 🙂
 
Many elements of the EF and their parish culture point to that transcendence in ways that the OF has often sadly abandoned:
  1. We all stand in line and move forward to receive Big Macs. No wonder people respond well to having a fundamentally DIFFERENT posture when they receive the Lord on the tongue when kneeling. Liturgy should follow theology.
  2. We are entertained constantly and it is too easy to see the consecration as just another show when the liturgy and position of the priest suggests it. But when we stand WITH him as one of us, but at our head at the time of consecration and we face God together, it’s different. WE aren’t the focus, we aren’t being addressed or entertained. God is being addressed by BOTH the priest and us. Once people get over themselves, they recognize the the priest isn’t “turning his back one me, he’s facing God together with me.”
  3. Praying the ancient devotions connects us with the saints of the past and reminds us of the one-ness of the Church in Christ in ways that ‘centering’ (etc.) just can’t do.
  4. Adoring the Eucharist visibly and in a posture of prayer reinforces our belief in the Grace and miracle of the Sacrament.
👍
 
is it ok to say that this is an ‘Occupy The Catholic Church’ movement? 😛

I dont know about you but I’m part of the 99% that wants the Church to be returned to it’s former Glory :cool:
 
We’re getting further and further away from the seventies.
The JP 2 generation is growing up and taking over.
Pope Benedict XVI is the current pope.
People are sick of lameness and watered-down theology.

The Mass is BOTH a meal and a sacrifice (or shall we say “banquet”, meal being a pretty lame word for what we’re talking about). These two things aren’t in conflict in any way.

I don’t think this is a throwback to before Vatican II. I think this is a further implementation of the fruit of Vatican II.
 
Don’t quite follow this. Latin, which underwent very little development, remained the lingua franca of the western world for centuries after the fall the the Western Empire.
Depends on what you mean by “little.” By the 3rd century, Latin had become morphed into a Vulgar Latin, which would become the basis of the Romance languages and more morphing later. Much of its case structure inter alia, codified by Cicero et other classists and in effect during the time of Christ, were being eliminated. Many of the -m endings were being dropped as well. A sample of the differences between Classic Latin and Vulgar Latin appear here in the Appendix Probi, compiled in the early centuries. There are other such references which show the development of the Romance languages and into what’s in existence today.

FWIW, over 50% of today’s English vocabulary is from Latin. But many of the words have been morphed and remain as cognates. For example, “consubstantial” has been morphed from the classic form of consubstantialem (dropping of the -m was typical in early vulgarization). And furthermore, there is no guarantee the word won’t be morphed further or changed altogether in the future as very few seem to understand it now.
In 2000 years of linguistic development, ‘Iesus’ in Latin has become ‘Jesus’ in English, ‘Jesus’ In French, ‘Jesus’ in Spanish, ‘Jesus in German’, ‘Jesus’ in Portuguese, and so on. Not much of a morph. The biggest change in fact was from the original Hebrew term to Latin: ‘Yeshua’ - ‘Iesus’.
Also from “Joshua” in the Greek. But the point is the word “Jesus” is what’s used on the inscription on the cross. It’s in the form of “IESVS” however, which would be the true classic form of Latin. Church Latin has codified the name w/cases as Jesus, Jesu, Jesu, Jesum, Jesu, and the vocative Jesu.
See the pattern?
Not hard to. Excellent post.
 
We’re getting further and further away from the seventies.
The JP 2 generation is growing up and taking over.
Pope Benedict XVI is the current pope.
People are sick of lameness and watered-down theology.

The Mass is BOTH a meal and a sacrifice (or shall we say “banquet”, meal being a pretty lame word for what we’re talking about). These two things aren’t in conflict in any way.

I don’t think this is a throwback to before Vatican II. I think this is a further implementation of the fruit of Vatican II.
Please define your “JP II generation” so that I understand whom you speak of.
 
We’re getting further and further away from the seventies.
The JP 2 generation is growing up and taking over.
Pope Benedict XVI is the current pope.
People are sick of lameness and watered-down theology.

The Mass is BOTH a meal and a sacrifice (or shall we say “banquet”, meal being a pretty lame word for what we’re talking about). These two things aren’t in conflict in any way.

I don’t think this is a throwback to before Vatican II. I think this is a further implementation of the fruit of Vatican II.
👍
 
Depends on what you mean by “little.” By the 3rd century, Latin had become morphed into a Vulgar Latin, which would become the basis of the Romance languages and more morphing later. Much of its case structure inter alia, codified by Cicero et other classists and in effect during the time of Christ, were being eliminated. Many of the -m endings were being dropped as well. A sample of the differences between Classic Latin and Vulgar Latin appear here in the Appendix Probi, compiled in the early centuries. There are other such references which show the development of the Romance languages and into what’s in existence today.
I was thinking of written, formal Latin, not the spoken variety of the poorer classes, which differed from the written norm even in Cicero’s time. The Appendix Probi is a comparison between the correct, written terms and the common, spoken terms of late 4th century Latin. In other words the formal norms had evolved little and would continue to be used by the educated classes and employed in all texts. ‘Vulgar’ Latin was not a written language and never would be. Formal Latin would be understandable, if not spoken, by the general populace until well into the 8th century.

It was only at the third Council of Tours, 813, that priests were obliged to preach in the language of the congregation as they could no longer understand formal Latin. Question then is why didn’t the same council translate the prayers of the Mass into the local dialects? The answer, I think, is somewhat complex.

To begin with these languages were not written and would not be so for centuries to come. Europe at that time was culturally very conservative, preserving what it could of the past with no thought for innovation. It would not have entered the head of any educated man (which meant any educated cleric) of that time to develop the spoken dialects into literary languages on the same footing as Latin.

This was reinforced by the fact that in the culturally unified world of Christendom, only one written language was used by the educated classes. For educated men Europe was a single common city. To fragment it by creating a diversity of languages in the intellectual and liturgical spheres would have been unthinkable.

And a final consideration: a liturgy needs to be is something very much apart from the common, everyday world. The old pagans worshipped in the open air; we worship in an enclosed building, apart from the vulgarity of the world. The architecture, ornaments, clothing, music - and language - are different from contemporary usage, reinforcing this separation from the world and enhancing the sense of supernatural realities. Latin, even though imperfectly understood by the laity, achieved this effect and still achieves it today.
FWIW, over 50% of today’s English vocabulary is from Latin. But many of the words have been morphed and remain as cognates. For example, “consubstantial” has been morphed from the classic form of consubstantialem (dropping of the -m was typical in early vulgarization). And furthermore, there is no guarantee the word won’t be morphed further or changed altogether in the future as very few seem to understand it now.
Anyone who studies theology knows what ‘transsubstantiation’ means. Anyone who doesn’t will ignore the word, rather than alter its meaning. Words, as the Iesus - Jesus example shows, morph very slowly. Compare any English word having a Latin origin with its Latin original.

In any case morphing of a spoken word doesn’t matter, as what is in question here is the written text.
Also from “Joshua” in the Greek. But the point is the word “Jesus” is what’s used on the inscription on the cross. It’s in the form of “IESVS” however, which would be the true classic form of Latin. Church Latin has codified the name w/cases as Jesus, Jesu, Jesu, Jesum, Jesu, and the vocative Jesu.
I don’t quite follow this. The Greek term is ‘Iesous’ (iota-eta-sigma-omicron-upsilon-sigma), very similar to the Latin. The ‘v’ in classical Latin also stood for a ‘u’.
 
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