What is the Church of Scientology?

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On another board, we are discussing the very subject of scientology, and I was flabbergasted as to what one person said.

I was told by a good friend that reached the top of scientology…(whatever that is) That whe you get there, they explain that everything is bullst and the whole first 7 years or something like that is a huge lesson in how to deprogram yourself, that when you are confronted by your “leader” or whatever, with the realization that you got sucked into a load of bulls**t it triggers an awakened state and you are no longer subject to being a “programable” person… **

This is according to my source, the most closely gaurded secret of scientology

What do you guys thing of this? I’d like to answer to this, but I’m just stumped… programed to be deprogramed?
 
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Loboto-Me:
On another board, we are discussing the very subject of scientology, and I was flabbergasted as to what one person said.

I was told by a good friend …
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Ok, people reading this thread can probably guess I’m not the greatest fan of Scientology. However, a quote like this does need some sort of reference before any real credence can be placed in it.

Anything that starts out “a person on an internet message board said that another person said that…” makes it sound like another urban myth. Of course it may be true, or have a basis in reality, but it equally may be false.

I would need to know exactly who the “good friend” is who reached the top of scientology and have good evidence that they did so before approaching belief in the statements. Which doesn’t mean they are necessarily false.
 
Loboto << they explain that everything is bulls**t and the whole first 7 years or something like that is a huge lesson in how to deprogram yourself >>

“People are afraid of themselves, of their own reality; their feelings most of all. People talk about how great love is, but that’s bulls—. Love hurts. Feelings are disturbing. People are taught that pain is evil and dangerous. How can they deal with love if they’re afraid to feel? Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they’re wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It’s all in how you carry it. That’s what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you’re letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain.” (Jim Morrison, American Poet and Singer. Member of the American band The Doors and one of rock music’s mythic figures. 1943-1971, and now OT Level XXXIII)

Phil P, pre-clear implanted by R6
 
I just asked him what his “good friend” does for a living.

I figure the guy has to be hugely rich to have made it to the top… we’ll see if this fellah picks up on where I’m going with my question.
 
As I read the different quotes attributed to L. Ron Hubbard I honestly feel sick to my stomach. I honestly don’t know how anyone who has any feelings whatsoever for Jesus could ever give a dime to this organization.
 
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ByzCath:
Difference between the Jack Trick tracts and the information I have viewed is that the information is from ex-Scientologiests. Those who got out of the cult just giveing the information on what they were taught, or to be more correct, what they paid to learn.
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Sort of like this:
seekgod.ca/cmtestimony.htm

There are many “testimonies” of ex Catholics, in books, webpages, forums, etc. that make the same claims that Catholicism focuses on Mary more than God, doesn’t follow the Bible, invented beliefs, worships “another Christ”, etc. I see this as the same thing as ex Scientologists claiming that they were forced to do certain things, had to believe in space aliens, worshipped Hubbard, etc.

Also, the whole issue of money is overrated.
 
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ByzCath:
Phil,
You will not find any entries at the official site as Scientology works sort of like a mystery cult.

Look back at Thetan’s reply to me about Xenu in post #88.

You are initiated into further knowledge that is not avalible to the uninitiated. That is if you can afford it.
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More appropriately, it is in the realm of a mystery “religion”/“practice”, etc. I refrain from the use of “cult” unless using it in a positive way. Scientology is more similar to to Eastern religions than Western. I see no problem with the “mystery” aspect of Scientology, or that more information is given to you as you progress, and I don’t think the other Scientologists have a problem with this either, seeing as how we know this from the onset.

Once again, money is not that big of an issue as you think it is. As I’ve said before, I’m a college student, and am the stereotypical “poor college student”. However, Scientology is not as expensive as people think it is, or what the “ex Scientologists” say. Also, you can do co-auditing, and even become an Auditor(the recommended path in Scientology, as you help others as they help you. hmm, sounds familiar…), and in exchange for auditing others, you can get your own free auditing. This is recommended by the Church, so I hardly think that it is the money ravenous Church that antis think it is.
 
Thetan << This is recommended by the Church, so I hardly think that it is the money ravenous Church that antis think it is. >>

Hey Thetan what about L. Ron Hubbard and his teachings on Christianity (Catholicism), Christ, and this R6 Implant stuff?

Let’s cut to the chase: Hubbard says Christianity is a big lie implanted in us some 75,000,000 years ago. Is that view supposed to be compatible with Catholicism? I wouldn’t mess around with their E-Meter thingy or give them a dime until I get this answered. :rolleyes:

Phil P
 
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PhilVaz:
Thetan << This is recommended by the Church, so I hardly think that it is the money ravenous Church that antis think it is. >>

Hey Thetan what about L. Ron Hubbard and his teachings on Christianity (Catholicism), Christ, and this R6 Implant stuff?

Let’s cut to the chase: Hubbard says Christianity is a big lie implanted in us some 75,000,000 years ago. Is that view supposed to be compatible with Catholicism? I wouldn’t mess around with their E-Meter thingy or give them a dime until I get this answered. :rolleyes:

Phil P
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Phil, as I’ve said before, I honestly have not researched quotes on Hubbard, his views on Christianity, etc. However, I find it interesting that all of these “quotes” and “recordings” come from anti Scientology websites, and no where on the Church of Scientology or affiliated/official sites do I find these statements. I will ask more experienced Scientologists about this. However, I simply will not believe what an anti-Scientology website says over what the actual Scientology religion states, noting that it does believe that Jesus Christ existed, the positive natural of his crusade, etc.
 
<< I will ask more experienced Scientologists about this. However, I simply will not believe what an anti-Scientology website says over what the actual Scientology religion states >>

All right, thanks. Normally I wouldn’t believe anything on an anti-Catholic site either, but if they had a recording of Benedict XVI saying “there was no Christ” etc I might have a problem with that. Or else the recording was faked or something, not that hard to do these days. But looks like the recordings are documented where and when Hubbard said these things.

Looks like another project for my site, maybe I’ll put together an article on “Scientology and Catholicism” shortly…

bringyou.to/apologetics

Phil P
 
this all seems interesting. i’ll admit that I do have some interest in Dianetics, and have visited the NY Church in manhattan, and found them very welcoming, if a little agressive(but i don’t really have a problem with that, as I can be the same way,lol). what I’m interested in are these quotes.
 
OT III Revealed…

The head of the Galactic Federation (76 planets around larger stars visible from here) (founded 5,000,000 years ago, very space opera) solved overpopulation (250 billion or so per planet, 178 billion on average) by mass implanting. He caused people to be brought to Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H-Bomb on the principal volcanos (Incident II) and then the Pacific area ones were taken in boxes to Hawaii and the Atlantic area ones to Las Palmas and there “packaged”.

His name was Xenu. He used renegades. Various misleading data by means of circuits etc. was placed in the implants.

When through with his crime loyal officers (to the people) captured him after six years of battle and put him in an electronic mountain trap where he still is. “They” are gone. The place (Confederation) has since been a desert. The length and brutality of it all was such that this Confederation never recovered. The implant is calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it. This liability has been dispensed with by my tech development.

One can freewheel through the implant and die unless it is approached as precisely outlined. The “freewheel” (auto-running on and on) lasts too long, denies sleep etc and one dies. So be careful to do only Incidents I and II as given and not plow around and fail to complete one thetan at a time.

In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.

One’s body is a mass of individual thetans stuck to oneself or to the body.

One has to clean them off by running incident II and Incident I. It is a long job, requiring care, patience and good auditing. You are running beings. They respond like any preclear. Some large, some small.

Thetans believed they were one. This is the primary error. Good luck.

L. Ron Hubbard

Um, don’t waste your money.

And to be fair, here is OT Part I Section II of the secret teachings of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, for comparison. 😃

Phil P
 
and once again, I find it interesting that such information only circulates on “anti/former” Scientology websites. OT III is known as “The Wall of Fire”, so I don’t see what in that “OT III revealed” has to do with the actual name of the grade.
 
Thetan << and once again, I find it interesting that such information only circulates on “anti/former” Scientology websites >>

Guess what, I’m trying to get this stuff verified. Posted a message at the Clambake message board, I’ll see who actually owns those HCOB bulletins that are frequently cited. I’ve always been interested in Scientology but have only read it from the Anti- side. Now I hope to get the original documents. Time to read it from the “horse’s mouth.” I’ll tell you what I find…

I have no reason to think the actual recordings of Hubbard are fakes though. Here are my versions of those recordings, I cleaned them up a little bit with my Cool Edit Pro 2, and added a title with date, location, etc to the MP3 so it shows in Windows Media Player or other players.

HubbardOnChrist.mp3
HubbardOnChristGame.mp3
HubbardOnCatholicism.mp3
HubbardOnSoul.mp3
HubbardOnCrowley.mp3

Phil P
 
Thetan,

I was a Jehovah’s Witness for several years when I was a teenager & into my 20’s. My family weren’t witnesses - I became one on my own. Several friends tried to tell me that they were a cult and that the founder (Charles T. Russell) was a total nut who believed the craziest things. I believed, as all faithful witnesses, that he was a prophet of God. No one in the Watchtower Society talked about any of the really nutty things he said and since we weren’t allowed to read any “propaganda” - or anti witness stuff - how was I to know that what my friends were trying to warn me of was actually true. Just like you, when confronted with ANYTHING negative about the Society I thought it was a bunch of lies made up by people who hate the witnesses and I didn’t believe it. I trusted what I was told by the Society. Likewise with the moutain of information that ex-witnesses put out… I thought they were a small group of disgruntled losers with a vendetta.

Bottom line, I wasted many years following something that wasn’t true - made up by a guy who was delusional at best - a crook more likely. All because I failed to heed the warnings and believe what was true - even when it was put right in front of my face.

It wasn’t until I was away from this cult for a few years that I was able to look back and see how blinded I was - and what a powerful grip they had on my life. Now maybe you’re thinking - well that was you - that’s not me. I’m happy being a Scientologist - yeah, well I was happy being a Jehovah’s Witness too.

I hope you’ll consider what Phil has dug up - the quotes from Mr. Hubbard. Honestly, if he did say those things… don’t they sound totally off the wall??? You are obviously a very smart person… do some investigating yourself - and don’t think that the Church of Scientology is the place to get your answers. When I went to the Watchtower Society to find out if Russell was really as demented as I discovered, of course they denied it up and down and actually called me an apostate (evil slave). I think talking to former Scientologists is the place to go. You may think they just have an ax to grind. What if that’s NOT their motivation… what if they have learned the truth about Scientology and their only desire is to inform others? But my guess is, you’ve been instructed NOT to have any communication with former Scientologists? If so, THAT should be a major red flag.
 
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Thetan:
and once again, I find it interesting that such information only circulates on “anti/former” Scientology websites. OT III is known as “The Wall of Fire”, so I don’t see what in that “OT III revealed” has to do with the actual name of the grade.
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Just a guess but maybe that has to do with the nuclear bombs dropped into the volcanos by the Galactic Overlord Xenu.

Sounds like some bad sci-fi story…oh wait, it was created by a bad sci-fi author.
 
From Press Release by Steven Fishman, April 28, 1994

The Church of Scientology vehemently wants to keep these levels secret because the more mystery there is attached to them, the more money they can charge in “fixed donations.” They also do not want the press and the media to rationally look at their product – schizophrenia inducing science fiction which utilizes demonic exorcism techniques. They do not want their celebrities to know the contents of these levels, or they would no longer endorse Scientology. Without the cloak of mystery and secrecy, parishoners who have not been exposed to the levels would see the fraud in it and leave the Church in droves. Church executives know this and they are frantic about the court’s decision. They fear the inevitable – an educated consumer.

After all, don’t Tom Cruise, Kirstie Alley, John Travolta, Demi Moore, and Priscilla Presley have a right to know what lies ahead for each of them in pursuit of Scientology? The court feels they have a right to know.

The public domain is the most important forum we have as a free society. The public’s right to awareness supersedes the Church executives’ right to secrecy. Scientologists also have the freedom of choice in knowing what is in store for them at the end of the “bridge.” It is up to every one of us to respect and stand up for the sanity of others. After all, if a religion is truly workable, it can withstand the scrutiny of the truth. No religion has a right to suppress that.

Now that the upper level materials are finally unsealed, people are finally free to make up their own minds about the “effectiveness” of Scientology.

Freedom of choice is inherent in religious freedom. Secrecy and covert mental manipulation is not.

That the United States District Court has both recognized and acknowledged this proves that there truly is justice, even when it is attacked and opposed by the Church of Scientology.

Respectfully Submitted,

[signed]

Steven Fishman
 
carol marie:
Thetan,

I was a Jehovah’s Witness for several years when I was a teenager & into my 20’s. My family weren’t witnesses - I became one on my own. Several friends tried to tell me that they were a cult and that the founder (Charles T. Russell) was a total nut who believed the craziest things. I believed, as all faithful witnesses, that he was a prophet of God. No one in the Watchtower Society talked about any of the really nutty things he said and since we weren’t allowed to read any “propaganda” - or anti witness stuff - how was I to know that what my friends were trying to warn me of was actually true. Just like you, when confronted with ANYTHING negative about the Society I thought it was a bunch of lies made up by people who hate the witnesses and I didn’t believe it. I trusted what I was told by the Society. Likewise with the moutain of information that ex-witnesses put out… I thought they were a small group of disgruntled losers with a vendetta.

Bottom line, I wasted many years following something that wasn’t true - made up by a guy who was delusional at best - a crook more likely. All because I failed to heed the warnings and believe what was true - even when it was put right in front of my face.

It wasn’t until I was away from this cult for a few years that I was able to look back and see how blinded I was - and what a powerful grip they had on my life. Now maybe you’re thinking - well that was you - that’s not me. I’m happy being a Scientologist - yeah, well I was happy being a Jehovah’s Witness too.

I hope you’ll consider what Phil has dug up - the quotes from Mr. Hubbard. Honestly, if he did say those things… don’t they sound totally off the wall??? You are obviously a very smart person… do some investigating yourself - and don’t think that the Church of Scientology is the place to get your answers. When I went to the Watchtower Society to find out if Russell was really as demented as I discovered, of course they denied it up and down and actually called me an apostate (evil slave). I think talking to former Scientologists is the place to go. You may think they just have an ax to grind. What if that’s NOT their motivation… what if they have learned the truth about Scientology and their only desire is to inform others? But my guess is, you’ve been instructed NOT to have any communication with former Scientologists? If so, THAT should be a major red flag.
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I appreciate your thoughts:)
Honestly, I do want to find out the truth behind these quotes, as well as the Xenu story. However, despite all of that, I know that Scientology has worked for me, a lot of it makes sense to me and others as well. The Xenu story is such a miniscule part of Scientology, as are the OT levels. Most Scientologists don’t even reach those levels, let alone OT VIII. So, I know that I’ve had various experiences on the Bridge that lead me to believe that Dianetics IS a powerful “science” of mental health, and Scientology does have various spiritual benefits, at least for me. I have also talked to a handful of OT Scientologists, and I can attest to a few physical manifestations of spirituality that were amazing.

No I haven’t been instructed not to communicate with former Scientologists. I welcome their thoughts. However, what I don’t enjoy is reading websites from people that have never even been Scientologists, yet claim that they know all about it(no offense to Phil, as your page is not in the same category as those that I’ve seen). I don’t place any value in anti-Scientology websites, as I simply wouldn’t go to such a source to find out Scientology beliefs.

Thanks for your thoughts again, and Phil, I’m looking forward to the results of your research on the origins of those tapes.
 
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