What is the Church's position on the Intersexed and Transsexed?

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The tricky thing is, of course, living chastely, given that our media and popular culture has given itself over to the devil. I can imagine temptations to engage in anal intercourse, etc., which is intrinsically disordered. The Catechism, of course, lays out Church doctrine concerning sodomy and homosexual relations, neither of which are necessary for a loving communion of two persons (e.g., Jonathan and David in the Old Testament). (In fact, a perfectly loving communion necessarily excludes sodomy and homosexual relations!)
That is not a problem, my deformities include my entire gastrointestinal tract. Without getting more detailed than I already have, lets just say there would be nothing but pain, agony and complications if we were to conduct sodomy. For one, I do not even have a prostate, which is the organ that can make that feel ‘good’ to a male.

I have issues with the church, so much so simply going to a priest or spiritual director will trigger a panic attack of the scale that may involve me losing myself, or passing out. The last time I visited a priest, he told me to leave my partner, who is disabled, and live a life of solitude. I left the church more or less permanently shortly after. I did not feel it in my heart or soul to be truth, so I want nothing more to do with it.

This forum is all I have to do with Catholicism anymore.
 
One thing I find striking, as someone who possesses both hearing and vision and motor control of my limbs, is that those without hearing or vision or muscular control seem just as happy as I am. A striking result of social science is that happiness is likewise independent of monetary wealth. It seems to me that happiness comes spiritually; we are spiritual creatures yearning for our creator; as St. Augustine wrote, “my soul was restless until it came to rest in you, O Lord”, or something like that.

pathia, you seem depressed. Don’t be! 🙂

Edit: Reading the second half of your post, I’m not quite sure to say. Take up the matter with the bishop over that priest, and perhaps go to a different parish. Don’t let the misunderstanding of one person hurt you so much.
 
One thing I find striking, as someone who possesses both hearing and vision and motor control of my limbs, is that those without hearing or vision or muscular control seem just as happy as I am. A striking result of social science is that happiness is likewise independent of monetary wealth. It seems to me that happiness comes spiritually; we are spiritual creatures yearning for our creator; as St. Augustine wrote, “my soul was restless until it came to rest in you, O Lord”, or something like that.

pathia, you seem depressed. Don’t be! 🙂

Edit: Reading the second half of your post, I’m not quite sure to say. Take up the matter with the bishop over that priest, and perhaps go to a different parish. Don’t let the misunderstanding of one person hurt you so much.
It’s much much much more than ‘one’ person. I have been unwelcomed from several parishes. Not so much you know directly, “Don’t come” but I am very much not welcome. They do not want someone like me around. Priests cause me panic attacks, it’s as simple as that, I cannot be near them, anyone higher is even worse. I lose myself. I panic so much I forget where I am, who I am, what I am doing there. I am on heavy doses of antipsychotics, but medicine cannot control all of my insanity.
 
Well, I guess I’ll pray for you. Have you heard the Catholic Answers podcasts concerning exorcism? Exorcists as guests on the show have commented that when people have exhausted medicine and their problems remain unresolved, perhaps there could be a demonic influence. But of course, if you are devout and pious in your faith, and do not invite the devil in, there is no way he can touch you; but you say you do not believe there is any truth in the Church of Christ … (In any case, the New Testament has several cases of demons causing physical problems.) I don’t mean to spark imagination or make any false accusation.
 
Well, I guess I’ll pray for you. Have you heard the Catholic Answers podcasts concerning exorcism? Exorcists as guests on the show have commented that when people have exhausted medicine and their problems remain unresolved, perhaps there could be a demonic influence. But of course, if you are devout and pious in your faith, and do not invite the devil in, there is no way he can touch you; but you say you do not believe there is any truth in the Church of Christ … (In any case, the New Testament has several cases of demons causing physical problems.) I don’t mean to spark imagination or make any false accusation.
Part of the reason why I am so screwy is I had things like excorcisms as a child, they screwed with my head so badly I don’t even know where to begin explaining my life to you. If you do a search of my posts, you will find some of the incidents. I was also in therapy for years to make me not gay, starting as early as 8, when I didn’t even know what ‘gay’ meant. I was percieved as being too feminine, so they went about fixing that, or at least trying. Instead it just ruined my childhood and the rest of my life, as I am therapy to undo my past therapy so to speak.
 
hyflyer64, the situation you suppose will not occur, because I am male, not female. A disordered envy of the female body resulting in part from a misunderstanding of my own in no way implies that I am “actually female” – I am quite actually male. I am simply effeminate, and as we know, God does not constrain us to limited gender roles.

Also, on Divine Mercy Sunday, Jesus answered my prayer for his help to live as the chaste Catholic man he intends for me to be – how wonderful! I have also found that daily prayer of the Rosary counters the sinful habit I formerly had of engaging in lustful internet fantasy (as an escape), and exercising, developing my body, is a good path for self-exploration, self-awareness, self-discovery. (Again, we are not persons inside of bodies: we are body-persons, spirits combined with bodies. Not one exclusively, but both mutually.)
🙂
And you’re absolutely sure that “to live as the chaste Catholic man” is what He intends you to be??
What if He intendid for you to live as a chaste Catholic woman!!??
Or just a chaste Catholic person.!!??
Like maybe He really doesn’t give a rip what you are on the outside, but what you are on the inside.
Maybe, just maybe, it’s OK with Him that we do whatever we have to do to cope in this world, as long as we follow His instructions;
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.” This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it: “You shall love your neighbour as yourself.” On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.’
My priest said that the way I am was the result of a disconnect between my physical body and how I perceive who I am. He felt that through prayer I might be able to repair that disconnect and then again I may never be able to!
I thought that under the circumstances it was a rather mute point, especially considering that “the deed is done” and I no longer feel a disconnect.

All that aside, what really matters is that you are at peace with who and what you are at this point in your life. Obviously we are not all as strong in our faith as you are and I do pray that God will give you the strength, if and when the that moment strikes. Maybe you’re not HBS and all will be fine.

Rachel
 
Post 225 really troubles me. The poster appears to be urging another poster, who has come to terms with being on one particular end of the “Brain Sex” ** spectrum (while his body is on the other end), to reverse his resignation and begin to doubt how authentic his response is, or how effective his response is. This is unfortunately what a few of us were mentioning on a different but similar thread, if not on this one.

It is a modern, and especially Western, malady that it is always best to reconcile every doubt and to repair every disconnect: nothing must remain unresolved. If everyone acted radically on every unresolved aspect of their existence and of their choices, no one would commit to anything for any long period of time, and productivity would be seriously endangered. Most people have radical discomfort and/or indecision about at least one aspect of their lives, and for a prolonged period. Ask any priest if he’s ever entertained enormous doubt, or any parent, anyone committed to marriage or a particular career, or training for that career. Most people feel like doing or being something very different than who they are (or what they do) for at least part of their lives. Angst & doubt are part of the human condition. Sometimes it’s just best to ride it out. It may later become evident why one felt that way in retrospect, or it may later become evident that it’s time to change, but perhaps the indicated changes are internal, not external. Often the struggle or the disconnect is sanctifying: one discovers more about oneself (good, bad, or neutral); one learns to use a difficulty in a constructive way and thus transforms the difficulty into some powerful grace or insight for oneself and/or others.

Clearly I’m no expert on the thread’s subject, but I’ve lived long enough and known enough people to be able to admit that I’ve endured many things that I swore I would never tolerate, triumphed over many challenges that I was sure before they happened, I would be incapable of weathering without fatal injury to my happiness quotient. It takes awhile (years of being alive) to realize that one’s situation, whatever it is, does not control one’s happiness. One can be whole and integrated internally while enduring enormous difficulties and disconnects and even persecutions externally. We are not defined by how other individuals treat us or how society sees us or labels us. No matter what our situation – and whether we can do anything practical or physical about our situation – no one person or group can limit our happiness unless we allow them to.

It is perfectly logical to me (I’m well-read enough) that biological error happens on many fronts in the human person – from birth defects to physical sexual disconnects when one is apparently born one gender, biologically, but there is a physiological ambiguity that develops or co-exists – in terms of later hormones, organs, etc. Such situations would be utterly out of one’s control if they are truly physiological. I consider those to be objective disconnects. That is a very different thing than psychological disconnects, because the subjectivity and influence/suggestion involved in the latter make it too difficult to assess how genuinely ‘disturbing’ those are, and whether/to what degree surgery would be a healthy response – i.e., how “radical” the response need be, if action is indicated at all.

**According to authors Moir and Jessel, I’m pretty far on the feminine side of the spectrum, or at least I have been most of my life a “woman’s woman.” (I’m happy to say that I am less extreme with each passing year, the better I get to know and appreciate men. I’ve had plenty of male encounters in my life, but even with brothers, fathers, buddies, boyfriends, and marriage, it takes awhile to get inside the head of the opposite sex, which is why gay relationships are overall easier/more peaceful: communication & understanding is way easier.) So I’m trying to imagine what would I, Elizabeth, do, were I to find myself having the same brain but within a male body. I’d feel effeminate, that’s what I’d feel. Would I have an operation? Not unless male physical characteristics developed some time after my birth and I then wanted to return to my original, unified state.

It’s difficult for me to believe that there’s an epidemic of biological errors out there that makes surgery anything but rarely needed and rarely prudent.JMHO. 🤷
 
Post 225 really troubles me. The poster appears to be urging another poster, who has come to terms with being on one particular end of the “Brain Sex” ** spectrum (while his body is on the other end), to reverse his resignation and begin to doubt how authentic his response is, or how effective his response is. This is unfortunately what a few of us were mentioning on a different but similar thread, if not on this one.
Elizabeth,
You have no idea of how HBS affects a person.
I was not urging Ethereality to reverse his resignation. And to doubt how authentic his response is? No, his response seems to be very authentic. However, “how effective his response is”, only time will tell. In my last paragraph I state that maybe he isn’t suffering from HBS!? I hope he’s not for his sake or maybe just a mild case and it will be something that he can live with.
If you had read Zoe’s posts you would realize that HBS does not go away. People have endured un-godly procedures in an attempt to be cured. Have been prayed over and exorcised without success. A lot winding up in suicide.
Please, please get a copy of “She’s not There: A Life in Two Genders” by Jennifer Boylan.
It will give you an inkling of what it is like trying to deal with HBS.

Rachel
 
Post 225 really troubles me. The poster appears to be urging another poster, who has come to terms with being on one particular end of the “Brain Sex” ** spectrum (while his body is on the other end), to reverse his resignation and begin to doubt how authentic his response is, or how effective his response is. This is unfortunately what a few of us were mentioning on a different but similar thread, if not on this one.

It is a modern, and especially Western, malady that it is always best to reconcile every doubt and to repair every disconnect: nothing must remain unresolved. If everyone acted radically on every unresolved aspect of their existence and of their choices, no one would commit to anything for any long period of time, and productivity would be seriously endangered. Most people have radical discomfort and/or indecision about at least one aspect of their lives, and for a prolonged period. Ask any priest if he’s ever entertained enormous doubt, or any parent, anyone committed to marriage or a particular career, or training for that career. Most people feel like doing or being something very different than who they are (or what they do) for at least part of their lives. Angst & doubt are part of the human condition. Sometimes it’s just best to ride it out. It may later become evident why one felt that way in retrospect, or it may later become evident that it’s time to change, but perhaps the indicated changes are internal, not external. Often the struggle or the disconnect is sanctifying: one discovers more about oneself (good, bad, or neutral); one learns to use a difficulty in a constructive way and thus transforms the difficulty into some powerful grace or insight for oneself and/or others.

Clearly I’m no expert on the thread’s subject, but I’ve lived long enough and known enough people to be able to admit that I’ve endured many things that I swore I would never tolerate, triumphed over many challenges that I was sure before they happened, I would be incapable of weathering without fatal injury to my happiness quotient. It takes awhile (years of being alive) to realize that one’s situation, whatever it is, does not control one’s happiness. One can be whole and integrated internally while enduring enormous difficulties and disconnects and even persecutions externally. We are not defined by how other individuals treat us or how society sees us or labels us. No matter what our situation – and whether we can do anything practical or physical about our situation – no one person or group can limit our happiness unless we allow them to.

It is perfectly logical to me (I’m well-read enough) that biological error happens on many fronts in the human person – from birth defects to physical sexual disconnects when one is apparently born one gender, biologically, but there is a physiological ambiguity that develops or co-exists – in terms of later hormones, organs, etc. Such situations would be utterly out of one’s control if they are truly physiological. I consider those to be objective disconnects. That is a very different thing than psychological disconnects, because the subjectivity and influence/suggestion involved in the latter make it too difficult to assess how genuinely ‘disturbing’ those are, and whether/to what degree surgery would be a healthy response – i.e., how “radical” the response need be, if action is indicated at all.

**According to authors Moir and Jessel, I’m pretty far on the feminine side of the spectrum, or at least I have been most of my life a “woman’s woman.” (I’m happy to say that I am less extreme with each passing year, the better I get to know and appreciate men. I’ve had plenty of male encounters in my life, but even with brothers, fathers, buddies, boyfriends, and marriage, it takes awhile to get inside the head of the opposite sex, which is why gay relationships are overall easier/more peaceful: communication & understanding is way easier.) So I’m trying to imagine what would I, Elizabeth, do, were I to find myself having the same brain but within a male body. I’d feel effeminate, that’s what I’d feel. Would I have an operation? Not unless male physical characteristics developed some time after my birth and I then wanted to return to my original, unified state.

It’s difficult for me to believe that there’s an epidemic of biological errors out there that makes surgery anything but rarely needed and rarely prudent.JMHO. 🤷
What an imagination! I always thought inagination was a thing for children and youth. I guess I was wrong.:confused:
 
Post 225 really troubles me. The poster appears to be urging another poster, who has come to terms with being on one particular end of the “Brain Sex” ** spectrum (while his body is on the other end), to reverse his resignation and begin to doubt how authentic his response is, or how effective his response is. This is unfortunately what a few of us were mentioning on a different but similar thread, if not on this one.

It is a modern, and especially Western, malady that it is always best to reconcile every doubt and to repair every disconnect: nothing must remain unresolved. If everyone acted radically on every unresolved aspect of their existence and of their choices, no one would commit to anything for any long period of time, and productivity would be seriously endangered. Most people have radical discomfort and/or indecision about at least one aspect of their lives, and for a prolonged period. Ask any priest if he’s ever entertained enormous doubt, or any parent, anyone committed to marriage or a particular career, or training for that career. Most people feel like doing or being something very different than who they are (or what they do) for at least part of their lives. Angst & doubt are part of the human condition. Sometimes it’s just best to ride it out. It may later become evident why one felt that way in retrospect, or it may later become evident that it’s time to change, but perhaps the indicated changes are internal, not external. Often the struggle or the disconnect is sanctifying: one discovers more about oneself (good, bad, or neutral); one learns to use a difficulty in a constructive way and thus transforms the difficulty into some powerful grace or insight for oneself and/or others.

Clearly I’m no expert on the thread’s subject, but I’ve lived long enough and known enough people to be able to admit that I’ve endured many things that I swore I would never tolerate, triumphed over many challenges that I was sure before they happened, I would be incapable of weathering without fatal injury to my happiness quotient. It takes awhile (years of being alive) to realize that one’s situation, whatever it is, does not control one’s happiness. One can be whole and integrated internally while enduring enormous difficulties and disconnects and even persecutions externally. We are not defined by how other individuals treat us or how society sees us or labels us. No matter what our situation – and whether we can do anything practical or physical about our situation – no one person or group can limit our happiness unless we allow them to.

It is perfectly logical to me (I’m well-read enough) that biological error happens on many fronts in the human person – from birth defects to physical sexual disconnects when one is apparently born one gender, biologically, but there is a physiological ambiguity that develops or co-exists – in terms of later hormones, organs, etc. Such situations would be utterly out of one’s control if they are truly physiological. I consider those to be objective disconnects. That is a very different thing than psychological disconnects, because the subjectivity and influence/suggestion involved in the latter make it too difficult to assess how genuinely ‘disturbing’ those are, and whether/to what degree surgery would be a healthy response – i.e., how “radical” the response need be, if action is indicated at all.

**According to authors Moir and Jessel, I’m pretty far on the feminine side of the spectrum, or at least I have been most of my life a “woman’s woman.” (I’m happy to say that I am less extreme with each passing year, the better I get to know and appreciate men. I’ve had plenty of male encounters in my life, but even with brothers, fathers, buddies, boyfriends, and marriage, it takes awhile to get inside the head of the opposite sex, which is why gay relationships are overall easier/more peaceful: communication & understanding is way easier.) So I’m trying to imagine what would I, Elizabeth, do, were I to find myself having the same brain but within a male body. I’d feel effeminate, that’s what I’d feel. Would I have an operation? Not unless male physical characteristics developed some time after my birth and I then wanted to return to my original, unified state.

It’s difficult for me to believe that there’s an epidemic of biological errors out there that makes surgery anything but rarely needed and rarely prudent.JMHO. 🤷
Just a couple last things. I’m glad that you inserted “JMHO” at the end because if you had been reading the threads you would not have made some of the statements you did. Unless of course, you totaly disregard what has been presented, especially by Zoe, and feel that opinion has more weight.

"Sometimes it’s just best to ride it out." You can’t ride it out. It does not go away. It’s not a feeling induced by some invironmental condition.

"psychological disconnects" It is not a psychological issue, otherwise psychothropic drugs would help. They’ve been tried and they don’t work.

"I’d feel effeminate, that’s what I’d feel" You don’t “feel” effeminate, you are and or act effeminate!!

"that makes surgery anything but rarely needed and rarely prudent" Ages teen to early 20s; up to 50% attempted suicide rate and around 18% succeed. Post-op; 98% satisfaction with results and a suicide rate below the national average.

BTW, your comment “which is why gay relationships are overall easier/more peaceful”,
Like, you know this from experience??🙂

Not JMHO, just the facts!

Rachel
 
hyflyer64, the situation you suppose will not occur, because I am male, not female. A disordered envy of the female body resulting in part from a misunderstanding of my own in no way implies that I am “actually female” – I am quite actually male. I am simply effeminate, and as we know, God does not constrain us to limited gender roles.
Hun,
Please don’t feel that I’m trying to make fun of you or trying to sway your resolution and beliefs. It’s just that I have seen and read so much about how HBS affects people.
If you haven’t, I would strongly encourage you to see a councilor or psychiatrist familiar with gender issues. Along with prayer and your faith, they would be able to give you tools that would make it easier for you to cope.
My councilor gave me a diagnosis after 12 months and the question was always out there, how did I want to proceed??
If your choice is in the context of your faith, they will support you in that decision. If not, find someone that will.
Maybe right now you don’t need that kind of support and that’s OK.

As I stated before, my prayers are with you.

God bless,
Rachel
 
The problem I’ve seen surface in this thread is this idea that “sex reassignment surgery” is medically sound, akin to removing a cancerous testicle. It is not. This procedure fixes nothing. It mutilates the body and is thus gravely evil, just like tubal ligations and vasectomies. It is not a procedure that fixes something like a cleft palate; rather, it is done so that the person may masquerade as something he is not…
Define “male” please. And “female”.
Then we can talk about masquerades.

Originally the only justification for SRS was that without it, people died. That’s still true. But we now know that there’s a reason for that. Transsexuality is an Intersex condition. Rather than SRS enabling a masquerade, it ends it.

If you have evidence otherwise, please tell us.
 
Transsexuality is an Intersex condition. Rather than SRS enabling a masquerade, it ends it.

If you have evidence otherwise, please tell us.
From everything I’ve ever seen from the Church, God does not put people “in the wrong bodies”. He puts them in their bodies. Again, we are not persons inside bodies; we are body-persons, souls combined with bodies. See my previous posts for more on this point. A body is not something you have; it’s something you are. You do not grow a penis like you’d grow a tumor. God created us male and female, not male to be female.

I can only say the same thing in so many different ways in so many posts. I guess, sometimes, we hear what we want to hear.

This attack on the nature of existence is very dangerous. Once you artificially split a person into “his soul” and “his body” and begin saying “his soul” has the wrong body, it’s not a big step to say a body has the wrong soul – and we are already claiming that some bodies do not have souls, with abortion and human cloning. (Also with animal cloning – animals have souls, by the way. They are material and perish at death, unlike our eternal souls.) I encourage all of you to study Pope John Paul II’s Theology of the Body, as I am, with Christopher West’s writings. It illumines God’s plan for us and the true nature of our existence as body-persons, spirit/body “hybrids” so to speak.

Just so we’re all on the same page, by the way, since I brought it up: The soul is infused into the body at conception.
 
What an imagination! I always thought inagination was a thing for children and youth. I guess I was wrong.:confused:
And I always thought snide remarks and rudeness were “the things of a child” that St. Paul says we should put aside when we become adults. My post 226 was not rude. Your response was.
 
Thank you for your clarity, ethereality.

As to the other replies to my post 226, I can always tell when I’ve struck a nerve because repliers go over-the-top with criticism of conclusions I did not make. And yes, for those repliers’ information, I read the thread. I was drawing parallels, not make equivalencies. My post responded to a very presumptuous, leading, and intrusive suggestion by one poster to someone who had stated he had come to peace with an imperfectly aligned sexuality. It’s actually none of her business or place to suggest that he should further question the very wholeness of personhood to which ethereality just alluded.

Speaking of reading posts and threads, someone didn’t read mine well, at all. So you can knock of the unnecessary red ink. It doesn’t relate to anything I suggested. Not at all.
 
God created us male and female, not male to be female.
Let us assume you’re correct.
So please define ‘male’ and ‘female’.

While you’re at it, please explain those with 5ARD or 17BHDD who are born as girls, but change into being boys from natural causes. To some, it cures transsexuality, to others it induces it.

I won’t ask you to explain my own situation - that’s still not well understood. But at least you can tell me whether I’m male or female, and the reasons why you think that. You have all the data.
 
And I always thought snide remarks and rudeness were “the things of a child” that St. Paul says we should put aside when we become adults. My post 226 was not rude. Your response was.
Maam your whole attitude since doing a poll on putting a moratorium on intersex discussions has been very rude, not to mention sugesting the idea was rude. Don’t even think of brining up the disagreement card either. Magdeline and Xyneshia have have disagreed on these threaads and gotten along with us just fine. People in these threads keep reminding you, that with your responses it is obvious havent read much of the thread , yet you keep making assumptions. If forums like this become the mutual agreement society that you have implied you wish they were real life situations don’t get dealt with… Transsexuaism, HBS is very real and should be discussed, because there are two pretty well defined sides on the issue. one side of which seems to be really ignorant by their own choosing. theres lots that can be gained or lost over this issue, while people like you try to trivialize it. That I take umbrage with. If you treat people rudely it’s only logical to expect that in return.
 
Thank you for your clarity, ethereality.

As to the other replies to my post 226, I can always tell when I’ve struck a nerve because repliers go over-the-top with criticism of conclusions I did not make. And yes, for those repliers’ information, I read the thread. I was drawing parallels, not make equivalencies. My post responded to a very presumptuous, leading, and intrusive suggestion by one poster to someone who had stated he had come to peace with an imperfectly aligned sexuality. It’s actually none of her business or place to suggest that he should further question the very wholeness of personhood to which ethereality just alluded.

Speaking of reading posts and threads, someone didn’t read mine well, at all. So you can knock of the unnecessary red ink. It doesn’t relate to anything I suggested. Not at all.
That red ink really does jump out doesn’t it!? Kind of grabs your attention!!😃
I was well aware that you were trying to draw a parallel and what I was saying re;
"Most people feel like doing or being something very different than who they are (or what they do) for at least part of their lives. Angst & doubt are part of the human condition. Sometimes it’s just best to ride it out." is that “true Transexuality” (HBS) is not something that you can ride out. This is not something that is there for “part” of our lives. Just ask Ethereality. It’s always there.
HBS is not a “feeling” that fades with time and as much as I try, I just can’t think of a parallel that you could relate to.
The same goes for regular Transexuality (TS).
Can people live with it?
Absolutely! TS people can and do live “normal” lives. They are constantly haunted but it’s manageable. They don’t have to act on it.
However, HBS sufferers eventually have to act. It absolutely needs resolution.
I really don’t know how to describe it!!??🤷

"I can always tell when I’ve struck a nerve"
I have to wonder if that is the point of your posts on this subject??😦

God Bless,
Rachel
 
hyflyer, I think Elizabeth would be happier if you would place quotations from her posts in quote tags (highlight the text and click the dialog bubble in the post editor), instead of bold/red formatting. (The bold and red may come across as in The Scarlet Letter, “It’s bold and red because it’s wrong.”)

As for male and female, when looking at the Genesis story, we have Adam and Eve, man and woman. In a sense, it’s like you’re asking me to define the colors blue and yellow. It’s hard to define, but you know it when you see it. Don’t overanalyze reality, trying to force everything to fit square definitions. It leads one into endless spirals; what is the difference between sanity and insanity, reality and illusion, belief and faith? Life is complicated, but don’t overcomplicate it! 🙂 Ultimately, scientific definitions are irrelevant (God and his creation exist without man’s thoughts); we are called to love God and our neighbors, and to life everlasting.
 
Thank you, ethereality. I appreciate the kindness and the moderate tone of this and other recent posts of yours.
 
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