What is the difference between Catholic Salvation and non-Catholic Christian Salvation? Is there Salvation outside the Roman Catholic Church?

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mikew262 said:
And your non-Catholic Christian brothers and sisters thank you for that insult. :rolleyes:
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Catholics seem to get so caught up in church customs and doctrine that they forget that it is Christ alone who saves us. Not Mary, not holy father, not the priest who gives absolution, not our own good works, nobody but Jesus Christ.
 
SIA said:
Catholics seem to get so caught up in church customs and doctrine that they forget that it is Christ alone who saves us. Not Mary, not holy father, not the priest who gives absolution, not our own good works, nobody but Jesus Christ.
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Hello SIA

Come on now…

Your comment here seems to be a bit over-generalized, don’t you think?

I agree that some Catholics are not familier with their own faith and I pray always for them (at every Mass and every time I pray the Rosary). However, I believe that the vast majority, of the one billion Catholics, do not –

*“seem to get so caught up in church customs and doctrine that they forget that it is Christ alone who saves us. Not Mary, not holy father, not the priest who gives absolution, not our own good works, nobody but Jesus Christ”. *

With all due respect, I believe that your statement here is inaccurate; go to a Catholic pilgrimage site and see if you come away with the same opinion. Attend a Catholic Youth Day and see if you come away with same opinion…and so on…

If your opinion is based on Catholics who have left the Catholic Church, many because they didn’t understand or know their own faith, then yes…I can see how you might come to such an opinion but this is not reflective of the Catholic Church as a whole and not reflective of most Catholics here at CAF and if you have been posting here for any time…you know this already…right?

Peace. 🙂
 
No difference. Roman Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, Lutherans, so on and so on believe in Jesus Christ. They are just simply denominations. Jesus is salvation, so why should there be a difference? Unless someone does not believe in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour… if that was the case, he wouldn’t be a Christian at all.
 
sharon_rose said:
No difference. Roman Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, Lutherans, so on and so on believe in Jesus Christ. They are just simply denominations. Jesus is salvation, so why should there be a difference? Unless someone does not believe in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour… if that was the case, he wouldn’t be a Christian at all.
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You are correct that all these denominations believe that salvation occurs by grace, through faith. However, there are many differences in understanding about how that grace is applied to the person, and the role of faith in mixing with the grace that brings salvation.
 
sharon_rose said:
No difference. Roman Catholics, Methodists, Anglicans, Lutherans, so on and so on believe in Jesus Christ. They are just simply denominations. Jesus is salvation, so why should there be a difference? Unless someone does not believe in Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour… if that was the case, he wouldn’t be a Christian at all.
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Hello sharon_rose,

Thank you for your post.

What is your definition of, “believing in Jesus”? That is the difference…right?

Seriously…what is your definition of, “believing in Jesus”?

Peace 🙂
 
Jimmy_B said:
Hello sharon_rose,

Thank you for your post.

What is your definition of, “believing in Jesus”? That is the difference…right?

Seriously…what is your definition of, “believing in Jesus”?

Peace 🙂
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Well, believing in Jesus, is putting your faith in him and having a relationship with him. It is not an idea. Some might say they believe in Jesus but they don’t apply their faith to their daily lives. It’s just more of a lifestyle, associating with the Christian faith, going to church on Sundays, maybe to socialise or just out of habit. Basically, a christian in name only. Hope this helps! 🙂
 
The difference is, non-Catholic Christians (i.e. Protestants) believe that faith in Christ leads to certain salvation (once saved, always saved).

Catholics believe that faith in Christ disposes us to receiving grace merited by Christ’s death on the cross, and that grace sanctifies us. That sanctification leads us to the hope of salvation. That sanctifying grace can be lost through sin, however. That is why we need the sacraments: Baptism and Confession to restore sanctifying grace to our soul, and the other sacraments to strengthen the grace within us.
 
guanophore said:
Is the determination about one’s eternal status based upon subjective experience of one’s emotions?
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Dear Guanophore,
I don’t think that the eternal status is totally independent of what we are living right now. If there wouldn’t be an experience of salvation right now why would one believe in the final Salvation, what would be the meaning of that Salvation? I don’t think the Apostles meeting Jesus followed Him only for the things that He said there will be, but mainly because He was the answer to their hearts, because that man was something they desired to meet all the life long.
If you like there is a small example in the last encyclical, Spe Salvi. Pope relate of a saint, Giuseppina Bakhita, which make an experience of salvation when she become the slave of the Italian consul, a salvation that is only a little sign of the Salvation in which, she found out from this master, she can put all her hopes.
The same was for the first Christians, that in the community of the faithful found a light of salvation, a life different that what they live before and a reason of hope. I don’t think there was only a blind hope, a hope based on word, but a hope based on concrete things, on miracles, on the unity and the love between them (that itself is a miracle), in other words on the concrete presence of Jesus in mid of them.
And all this is not only an emotion of a moment is the consciousness of the destiny you just found, of your destiny you just met and now you have in front of your eyes.
What do you think?
With love in Christ,
Adelaida
 
Hi

Remember Fr. Feeney used Extra ecclessiam nullam salus and he was kick out of the Catholic Church.

Has the Catholic Church change its view and is now willing to except Extra ecclessiam nullam salus as a define and stated by Fr. Feeney???

Hummmm.
 
Years ago I thought that outside the Catholic Church there was no salvation

But something was wrong in that concept, I couldn’t imagined a perfect and a loving God to curse the rest of humanity just because so many people didn’t knew nothing about the church or Jesus

Even the Hell concept, all of this was a big dilemma for me

Then I read Lumen Gentium and muslims salvation, and others

I have read a Maria Simma, a pious catholic woman that has been visited by souls that are in purgatory…and they revealed to her what happens

I recommend the reading of this article :

THE AMAZING SECRET OF THE SOULS IN PURGATORY

holysoulscrusade.org/maria-simma1.html

In matter of miracles we already know that the church only says : can be trusted or not, and this is one of that trusted miracles…because it is full according with Catholicism Dogmas and Teachings

What I learned is :
  • Only those that knows perfectly the truth about the Church/Jesus and rejects it could be condemned
  • Only those that takes the Holy Supper and just don’t believe that in there is God Present can be condemned, they will be accused for the blood and flesh of Jesus, htey will take the condemnation by their own
  • Catholics, because they received more graces than any other religion, God will be more severe or more rewarded thru us. We can suffer a lot of more than others, or be more rewarded
Well, I think that that Maria Simma article is worth it to read
 
sharon_rose said:
Well, believing in Jesus, is putting your faith in him and having a relationship with him. It is not an idea. Some might say they believe in Jesus but they don’t apply their faith to their daily lives. It’s just more of a lifestyle, associating with the Christian faith, going to church on Sundays, maybe to socialise or just out of habit. Basically, a christian in name only. Hope this helps! 🙂
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Hello sharon_rose, thank your for your post.

That’s it? What about the Seven Sacraments, for example?

What does, “believing in Jesus, is putting your faith in him and having a relationship with him” even mean? Aren’t there a million possible different definitions of what you have posted?

It appears the there is at least 36,000 different definitions of what to have posted here, because there exists at least 36,000 different Christian denominations and subdivisions of Christianity.

If all Christians agreed upon the definition of what you posted here, then there would be only one Christian religion (denomination)…right?

And that’s the problem.

Jesus Christ and Christianity cannot and should not be summed-up using a handful of Bible verses, or using a couple of sentences…wouldn’t you agree?

I would rather do “too much” than not enough.

Keep growing in your faith.

Peace 🙂
 
About the Hell, let me explain it again what it is

People often thing about God as a Punisher Tirane or someone that hates humans, or some religions like Islam have this type of interpretation :
Listen to the call of Allah: “O My slaves! You sin morning and evening and I forgive all your sins. So call on Me, I will forgive you all your sins.”
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from this islamic forum

turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33769

Slaves, robots, a God as a Tirane always ready to curse and punish

That is not so, would be better to be a agnostic than a believer

To understand Hell we must understand the Basics of God’s attributes and nature :
  • GOD IS
  • Perfect in Love
This means that :
  • God can’t change is nature, or perfection
  • Everything that is good, comes from God
This is very important, because, the Good people and Bad people in this world receive everything from God in order to subsist. God make no distinction

The problem comes after death
  • A soul that rejected God always until the end, will face God Perfection…and the soul can’t face it…just can’t support the Holy and Universal presence of God…
  • the soul will run away, as like we turn our eyes aside from the Sun light to the shadows
  • The soul will throw himself to the darkness of Hell, where there is no God
  • But because what is good comes from God, the soul in hell will not receive anything from God…and in this is what the pain arise, terrible pain
  • But not all souls will suffer from the same pain, some of them will receive something from God
  • the worst pain is when the soul will be just alone, without nothing from God…this is fire, terrible pain
Man must ask :

What comes from God that we can see and appreciate it in this world ?

Is there something good that I, as a atheist, would miss a lot ?

Well, a cursed soul will miss everything that is good and comes from God, is just a question : what things !?
 
Delta2 said:
Years ago I thought that outside the Catholic Church there was no salvation
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Obviously, back then you were wrong, and that assumption is still wrong. Even the Church doesn’t say that.
 
What I learned is :
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  • Only those that knows perfectly the truth about the Church/Jesus and rejects it could be condemned
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  • Only those that takes the Holy Supper and just don’t believe that in there is God Present can be condemned, they will be accused for the blood and flesh of Jesus, htey will take the condemnation by their own
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  • Catholics, because they received more graces than any other religion, God will be more severe or more rewarded thru us. We can suffer a lot of more than others, or be more rewarded
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Wonderful Delta!
 
adelaida_i said:
Dear Jimmy,
In Vatican II Council the Catholic Church have said:
“the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.”
for more details see:
stjosef.at/council/search/UR3.htm
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So if Christ saves outside The Roman Catholic Church then the Roman Catholic Church can not be The One True Church.

I’m so glad The Vatican agrees with me.
 
East_Anglican said:
So if Christ saves outside The Roman Catholic Church then the Roman Catholic Church can not be The One True Church.

I’m so glad The Vatican agrees with me.
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Dear Anglican brother,

I don’t think this is a right reasoning. Christ can save also there where is no Church at all. This does not mean that He is less present in His Church or that the Church itself is not necessary.
The Catholic Church (all of it, not only the part of roman rite) says that it is the One True Church. No offence to the other sister Churches! We does not say this because we think that Christ will not save outside the Church, but to be clear that if one wants the Truth about Christ, the fullness of truth and of grace is to be find here. Would be unjust out of respect for the truth to say something else and we say this out of respect for the truth, not to offend the others.
Again, this doesn’t mean that the others are completely wrong, that they will arrive in hell, etc. We recognize the truth were is to be recognized, for example we recognize that C.S. Lewis is a great Christian writer, even if non Catholic, and we read his books. And, as Delta point it out, this is not something to make us arrogant (or at lest it shouldn’t be…, but sometimes we are mere humans and think that the fact that we are in the One True Church make us more Christians…, which is wrong!), but something that make us more responsible. He gave us more, He will ask more from us…
With love in Christ, our Savior,

Adelaida
 
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