What is the difference between Mormons and Islam?

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Speaking of ORIGIN not customs and beliefs: Both men went up to a mountain to pray, both came down with a book from an angel. What is the authority? Both are confusions.

St. Paul "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

A bit like Moses, really…​

---

**In no case can any religious credentials be proved - Moses & Jesus may have been as deluded as Joseph Smith, for all we know. BTW, dying for a belief is irrelevant to its value & credentials: Communism & atheism have their martyrs, as have Bahaism, Islam, Judaism, etc. **

 

[paarsurrey]

You also say that **Mohammad is the only true messenger **and yet you also honor Krishna and Buddha. It is hard to imagine how you could get so many inconsistencies into so short a post.

Hi

Kindly quote my post where I said “Mohammad is the only true messenger”.

How could I say that? There is definitely some misunderstanding by you.

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Ahmadi Muslims number more than 170 million in the world today. They do not have any new book other than the Quran. Otherwise they have their own interpretive books. They pray exactly like the non Ahmadi Muslims. Do the Mormons do the same prayer as the non mormon christians? I hope not.

You are betraying your own religion. The Ahmadiyya does have a book from Mirzha Ghulam Ahmad, DF strauss, and anybody’s book arguing that Jesus went to India, to the extend that such book either supersede or at least equal the Quran.

 

[swariffin]

Hi

Nor does Islam/Quran/Muhammad accommodate suicide bombings in teachings as also in deeds.

I love Jesus and Mary as I do love Buddhan and Krishna

Thanks

Quran has Jihadist verses which was misinterpreted by suicide bombers, while the book of Mormon to the extend I read, has none.

 

[swariffin]

He was arrested for inciting a riot, which occurred when the Expositor printing press was destroyed, on Smith’s order, for printing the truth about his polygamous affairs. Which up to that point, he had denied (lied).

He also was charged with treason, for declaring martial law and sending out his private army, the Nauvoo Legion.

His murder was a criminal act.

Why do you believe he was arrested?

So the Mormonism has some sort of Taqiyya a la Muslim. Taqiyya is a verse in Quran which allow you to lie in certain circumstances.

 

[RebeccaJ]

So the Mormonism has some sort of Taqiyya a la Muslim. Taqiyya is a verse in Quran which allow you to lie in certain circumstances.

“Lying for the Lord” was taught as valid by Brigham Young, the successor to Joseph Smith.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Uhmn…Actually, Joseph was murdered in 1844, after he turned himself in, having been promised that he would be protected. Turns out, though, that the very militia that was supposed to have protected him formed a great part, if not most, of the 200 member mob that shot him.

The charges against him were: inciting a riot (though there was none…indeed, it might be charged that the Nauvoo Expositor was doing the inciting, since it’s first issue accused him of setting himself up as a king…a little hard to do when you are running for President…and called for people outside of Nauvoo to come in and kill Mormons.) and treason, for the crime of declaring marshal law; something that was well within his rights as mayor of the town, when threatened by militia attacks against the city.

The prevailing thought by historians is that the charges were formed with the express purpose of getting him somewhere so that he could be killed; the wilder and more serious the charges, the less likely he would be convicted, thus, the more likely that he would actually allow himself to submit to arrest.

It worked, obviously–though he himself didn’t want to do this; he knew what was likely to happen. His wife Emma talked him into going, and Brigham Young never forgave her for that.

Just a wee bit of history there…

Diana

This is a lovely filtered and modified version of facts and history.

To begin with, perhaps you should read the one and only edition of the Expositor before claiming to know what was printed. It says nothing of Smith setting himself up as king.

It in fact lays out secret meetings, secret excommunications, secret practices of polygamy. Which was being denied in public. Bold faced lies.

If you believe that it is a valid action to destroy a printing press in the US for what it prints, perhaps you should also read up on the Bill of Rights.

 

[swariffin]

Now I have to ask: why is the question being asked in the first place? I mean, really–“What is the difference between Mormons and Islam?” The very asking of the question betrays a bias against Mormonism that is pretty obvious: Why are the two belief systems being compared in the first place?

This Non-Christian forum is created to compare and contrasting belief, my dear sister. Although I don’t believe that religion cannot be contrasted or compared to get an unquestionable belief, this forum is good to know others from another religion and to know what they are thinking and reasoning. Also, this forum is good for us to know and give reasoning to each of our believes too.

 

[swariffin]

**You have shown weakness in your arguments as usual for the mormons. I only knew that Joseph Smith was killed in Year 1851 A.D. Perhaps it is right. No harm. According to you he started preaching his message at the very young age of 14. I am surprised and admit my ignorance about all this.
You win and I lose if Joseph Smith started his ministery at the age of 14. And I will agree that Deut 18:18 did not apply to him.

Next.**

**Again another shot from you at Muhammad. You want to avoid the verse Deut 18:18 to be applied to Jospeh Smith. Then what use is that verse? It is particularly for the false prophets. How can Jospeh Smith get out and away from that punishment from God. It is God who told about that and it is the will of God which cannot be averted.

That does not apply to Muhammad who survived the intense powerful poison given by a Jewess. He survived and lived for three or four years, quite healthy life, even conquered Makkah after that and made many expeditions against the rascals/ enemies/ kafirs.

Had Muhammad died by the poison then verse Deut 18:18 would have applied to him too.**

Deut 18:18 has nothing to do with Mohammad. It is another self-claim made my muslims/Ahmadiyya. You completely ignore Jewish tradition and book pf prophet Malachi.

 

[swariffin]

“Lying for the Lord” was taught as valid by Brigham Young, the successor to Joseph Smith.

I see. Thanks. In “Lying for the Lord” does it means that we can also deny being a mormon or the follower of Joseph Smith in case of our life are being threathened?

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

I gather following information about Joseph Smith, Jr., from the wikipedia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

Joseph Smith, Jr. (December 23, 1805 – June 27, 1844) was the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement

an angel had shown him a set of golden plates describing a visit of Jesus to the indigenous peoples of the Americas. In 1830, Smith published what he said was a translation of these plates as the Book of Mormon. The same year he organized a new church, which he called the Church of Christ.

First Vision
Main article: First Vision
In 1832 (when he first recorded the experience), Smith said that as a fourteen-year-old in 1820, he had received a theophany, an appearance of God to man, an event that Latter Day Saints commonly call the First Vision. Smith eventually recorded several accounts of this experience,[2] and the version later canonized by the LDS Church was first publicly revealed in 1838.[3]
Assassination

Pepper-box pistol used by Joseph Smith in an attempt to defend himself on June 27, 1844
On June 27, 1844, an armed group of men with blackened faces stormed the jail where Joseph and three other Mormon prisoners were being held in an upstairs room without bars. Both Hyrum Smith and Joseph had pistols that had been smuggled in by friends the previous day. As the mob broke into the room, Hyrum was shot in the face and killed. Joseph discharged all six barrels of his pepper-box and wounded three members of the mob.[151] But they continued to fire at Smith and the other Mormons. As Smith prepared to jump from the second floor, he was hit by a ball from the door and fell from the window. On the ground he stirred a bit. Four men fired and killed him.[152]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

My question is when did Joseph Smith **publicly claim **that he was Messenger of God Allah YHWH?

Thanks

 

[RebeccaJ]

I see. Thanks. In “Lying for the Lord” does it means that we can also deny being a mormon or the follower of Joseph Smith in case of our life are being threathened?

I don’t know. It isn’t a doctrine. It is a practice. Mormons will either deny this practice, or, attempt to justify it. Most often it is used to protect the reputation of the LDS Church and its leaders or to gain converts.

 

[dianaiad]

which militia? there is some evidence that JS had called up the nauvoo legion to rescue him and thought they wold get there in time.

The “Carthage Greys,” who, when Joseph was placed in Carthage jail, were supposed to have protected him. An odd choice, one would think, given that when Joseph was paraded through town toward the jail, they all threw their arms on the ground in protest of Mormons.

By the way, Governor Ford told Nauvoo that if they didn’t surrender Joseph, that he would attack them with the militia, and at first refused to accept Joseph’s surrender on June 24. Captain Dunn took him back to Nauvoo in order for Dunn to urge the Nauvoo townspeople to give up their arms. They didn’t. Joseph went back to Carthage.

wow that ignores a lot of facts. i hardly think a mayor has the legal right to destroy a newspaper because it prints the true story of his adulterous affairs and coverup attempts. have you read that issue of the expositor?

I have. The question is, have you? Whether Joseph was correct in his decision, along with the city council, to destroy the printing press is a question one can debate. I hardly think that it was supposed to be a capital offense, though, do you?

Y’know, it would help your credibility a great deal if you used websites that weren’t so completely discredited and discreditable. WILLIAM LAW???

Whatever his reasons for disaffection from the church, the fact is, he was excommunicated in January of 1844, and immediately plotted the assassination of Joseph, with a group called the Conspirators. They met, and recorded their plans to kill Joseph. He was the publisher of the Nauvoo Expositor–which you quite obviously have NOT read, at least not carefully and with a view to history. Whether or not you agree with Joseph, his beliefs or his aims, presenting his ‘testimony’ as if he were actually Joseph’s attorney and defender is rather…dang, I hate this word, but it’s the only one that fits…disingenuous, wouldn’t you say? Were you aware that Law was in Carthage, meeting with several members of the Greys, on the day that they participated in the mob that killed Joseph?

Look. I’m not attempting to prove that Joseph was a prophet or that the church is "true. " I believe he was, but that’s my problem. He was also very human, as were all the other people around him, Mormon and non. I can understand, if not quite approve of, the destruction of a printing press belonging to a man who was very public about his wish to kill Joseph and used the sort of language he used in it. On the surface, Law seemed to deny any attempt to ‘bring a mob’ down upon Nauvoo. “On the other hand,” Law goes on to say, people should see to it that Joseph Smith and his brother Hyrum–who he described in really nasty terms–must be made to see justice by whatever means is required.

In that day and time, this was a standard call for vigilante/mob action. This is especially true when Law and others knew very well that Gov. Ford had his militia armed, ready and waiting for an excuse to invade–and the citizens of Nauvoo knew that VERY well.

prevailing thought? according to who? many mormons were outraged at what JS had been doing. from those who were swindles out of land and money (like kirtland antibank fiasco) to those who were tired of him hitting on their wives and daughters. then there were the area nonmormons who felt threatened by rigdon’s salt of the earth speech, Js being anointed “king”, Js being general of one of the largest local militias in the US…JS was out of control and needed to be reigned in by the law. it is unfortunate that vigilantes (who may well have been mormons) shot him.

Oddly enough, while there were many men who bragged about being in that mob, none of the braggers were Mormons. In fact, the only people I"ve ever heard put forward such an idea were people like you, to whom the idea has a delicious feel to it.

But sorry, there isn’t a scintilla of evidence that any Mormon was involved. EX Mormons, like Law? Maybe.

oh i think emmas issues with BY had a lot more to do with money since the RLDS (with emmas help) ended up with the copyright to JS bible translation, the kirtland temple and a few other choice bits of property.
might want to read more than just a wee it and get the story straight.

Well, sir, it’s like this: I’m willing to admit that Joseph was a better prophet than he was a politician or a banker, and that he was not perfect. I’m also willing to admit that his destruction of the Expositor was ill advised, though in all honesty, that first issue was certainly incendiary.

Will you admit that your own ideas of what happened are a tad bit biased? I mean, really—presenting William Law as Joseph’s counselor so that his words would appear more damaging–when in reality no single person did more to ensure Joseph’s death than Law did. …

And actually asking me to accept the site you sent me to as unbiased and authoritative?

C’mon…that’s like me sending people to sbc.net/ to learn about Catholicism. Worse; at least their examination of Catholicism, while adversarial and somewhat inaccurate, isn’t rude about it.

Diana

 

[dianaiad]

nobody really knows when/if the grove visit took place as multiple accounts have been found that vary greatly on this. none were published until many years later and the only one written in josephs own hand certainly isn’t even close to what is currently published. the only “fact” we have here is when he died. even so should we compare him then to jim jones and david koresh to see which self proclaimed restorationist “prophet” carried out his ministry the longest before a violent death?

Excuse me…but is this the level of courtesy I may expect here? If so, may I reply in kind?

It doesn’t matter how many ‘versions’ there are, my friend. I know of no incident in my own life, no matter how important, that I use the same words to describe every single time. The important thing here is when Joseph claimed to have had it. That never changed.

 

[dianaiad]

So the Mormonism has some sort of Taqiyya a la Muslim. Taqiyya is a verse in Quran which allow you to lie in certain circumstances.

We DO? News to me. CFR?

(call for references, if that’s unclear.) I want the book, chapter and verse of the “Taquiyya” that you claim we have.

 

[dianaiad]

“Lying for the Lord” was taught as valid by Brigham Young, the successor to Joseph Smith.

Again. CFR.

Please.

 

[swariffin]

We DO? News to me. CFR?

(call for references, if that’s unclear.) I want the book, chapter and verse of the “Taquiyya” that you claim we have.

I will get to you to quote it. It has been discussed many many times in this forum discussing Islam, with the Quranic reverences.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Y’know, it would help your credibility a great deal if you used websites that weren’t so completely discredited and discreditable. WILLIAM LAW???

Whatever his reasons for disaffection from the church, the fact is, he was excommunicated in January of 1844, and immediately plotted the assassination of Joseph, with a group called the Conspirators. They met, and recorded their plans to kill Joseph. He was the publisher of the Nauvoo Expositor–which you quite obviously have NOT read, at least not carefully and with a view to history.

From the Nauvoo Expositor:

"On thursday evening, the 18th of April, there was a council called, unknown to the Church, which tried, condemned, and cut off brothers Wm. Law, Wilson Law, and sister Law, (Wm’s. wife,) brother R.D. Foster, and one brother Smith, with whom we are unacquainted; which we contend is contrary to the book of Doctrine and Covenants, for our law condemnest no man untill he is heard. We abhor and protest against any council or tribunal in this Church, which will not suffer the accused to stand in its midst and plead their own cause. If an Agrippa would suffer a Paul, whose eloquence surpassed, as it were, the eloquence of men, to stand before him, and plead his own cause, why should Joseph, with others, refuse to hear individuals in their own defence? – We answer, it is because the court fears the atrocity of its crimes will be exposed to public gaze. We wish the public to thoroughly understand the nature of this court, and judge of the legality of its acts as seemeth them good. On Monday, the 15th of April, brother R.D. Foster had a notice served on him to appear before the High Council on Saturday following, the 20th, and answer to charges preferred against him by Joseph Smith. On Saturday, while Mr. Foster was preparing to take his witnesses, 41 in number, to the council-room, that he might make good his charges against Joseph, president Marks notified him that the trial had been on Thursday evening, before the 15th, and that he was cut off from the Church; and that same council cut off the brother Laws’, sister Law, and brother Smith, and all without their knowledge. They were not notified, neither did they dream of any such thing being done, for William Law had sent Joseph and some of the Twelve, special word that he desired an investigation before the Church in General Conference, on the 6th of Ap’l. The court, however, was a tribunal possessing no power to try Wm. Law, who was called by special Revelation, to stand as counsellor to the President of the Church, (Joseph,) which was twice ratified by General Conferences, assembled at Nauvoo, for Brigham Young, one of the Twelve, presided, whose duty it was not, but the President of the High Council. – See Book of Doctrine and Covenants, page 87. "

So as you can see, William Law was secretly excommunicated on April 15, 1844.

You will also notice that William Law never denied a testimony of the Book of Mormon. What he was against was polygamy, the lying to cover it up, and the actions of Joseph Smith & Co to keep it covered up.

William Law brought the truth to light in the printing of the Expositor, for which, Smith had it destroyed.

Inciting? Certainly, truth incites the fraudulent and dishonest to action.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Again. CFR.

Please.

Oh, a MADB apologist. Seriously, you are throwing made up history all over the place and you are asking me for a CFR?

How many quotes would you like? You know very well that BY is a gold mine for this sort of thing.

 

[dianaiad]

This Non-Christian forum is created to compare and contrasting belief, my dear sister. Although I don’t believe that religion cannot be contrasted or compared to get an unquestionable belief, this forum is good to know others from another religion and to know what they are thinking and reasoning. Also, this forum is good for us to know and give reasoning to each of our believes too.

The question is still, why? I don’t see any threads in this forum asking what the differences or similarities are between Islam and Lutheranism, or Islam and the Society of Friends, or Islam and the Amish, or Islam and Baptists.

Call me wary. Call me paranoid–or actually, call me weary and experienced. In my very long history of talking to people about the church, I have found that there has only ever been one reason to ask this particular question–and it is a begging of the question; it’s not a sincere question. It’s a tar brushing.

Why would it even occur to someone to ask it?