What is the difference in Protestants being "saved" and Catholic salvation?

[zz912]

I was not accusing anyone of being a cult. I was stating my objections to making claims of special knowledge or guidance. This is why people follow such leaders as Rev. Moon or David Koresh or Joseph Smith. All we need is the bible. It is the safest route. That is why Paul warned the Galatians not to accept any other gospel even if it came from him. They were to keep to the original blueprint which he once delivered and confirmed with signs and wonders.

I think you would miss me if i left. We need to challenge each other. Its a good exercise for me. I need to understand how others believe and know Christ.

The Bible disagrees with this statement. The Bible says the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, and that Christians shall know how to behave by remaining in the Church. Jesus also says to take our questions and disputes to the Church. Scripture also tells us to hold to the traditions that have been given to us.

Scripture also warns not to interpret Scripture individually, and that many will read Scripture and twist it to their own destruction. So Scripture says we need much MORE than just Scripture.

I’m curious, if you were living in 50AD, what would you have done? Would you follow a leader, such as Peter, or followed a Bible, much of which hadn’t been written yet?

 

[PRmerger]

All we need is the bible.

Sadly, this is a man-made tradition you’ve been duped into believing.

You heard a man say it, who heard another man say it, who heard another man say it, but no one ever read, in a single page of the Bible, “All we need is the bible”.

In fact, without the Catholic Church you wouldn’t have the Bible, so common sense tells you that you need the CC also.

 

[Porknpie]

Sadly, this is a man-made tradition you’ve been duped into believing.

You heard a man say it, who heard another man say it, who heard another man say it, but no one ever read, in a single page of the Bible, “All we need is the bible”.

In fact, without the Catholic Church you wouldn’t have the Bible, so common sense tells you that you need the CC also.

Yes, I do wonder who the first Christian was to ever say the words:

“All we need is the bible”

Who where they?
Where did the live?
In what year?

 

[Faith1960]

Catholics believe that anyone at all can go to Heaven, Catholic or Pentecostal, Unitarian or Jew, Muslim or agnostic. However, we believe that the only Way any of them get there is through Jesus Christ and by His Catholic Church…

How does Unitarian, Jew, Muslim or agnostic get to heaven by Jesus when they don’t believe?

 

[PRmerger]

How does Unitarian, Jew, Muslim or agnostic get to heaven by Jesus when they don’t believe?

Well, it depends on what you mean by “they don’t believe”.

If they know who Jesus is, but reject Him, then they can’t enter.

But if they’ve never encountered Him or were introduced to a caricature of Jesus, then they will be given a chance to meet Him and then they can accept or reject Him at that point.

 

[Faith1960]

Well, it depends on what you mean by “they don’t believe”.

If they know who Jesus is, but reject Him, then they can’t enter.

But if they’ve never encountered Him or were introduced to a caricature of Jesus, then they will be given a chance to meet Him and then they can accept or reject Him at that point.

Ok.

 

[eazyduzit]

Sadly, this is a man-made tradition you’ve been duped into believing.

You heard a man say it, who heard another man say it, who heard another man say it, but no one ever read, in a single page of the Bible, “All we need is the bible”.

In fact, without the Catholic Church you wouldn’t have the Bible, so common sense tells you that you need the CC also.

Great Christians have proved by their very lives that that the Bible is indeed sufficient. One example was Smith Wigglesworth. He never read anything but the Bible or even allowed any other literature in his house. I would like to be “duped” as much as this man. How many people were raised from the dead in your ministry? How many thousands have you healed and saved?

 

[PRmerger]

Great Christians have proved by their very lives that that the Bible is indeed sufficient.

No doubt they’ve done this.

But that doesn’t make it true.

Nor does that prevent it from being a man-made tradition.

You’ve not read “all we need is the Bible” in a single page of the Bible.

Great Christians have proved by their very lives that the Rosary is a means of growing closer to Christ.

how-to-pray-the-rosary-everyday.com/i-was-converted-by-praying-one-rosary.html

But I presume that this doesn’t convince you that it’s true, yes?

 

[PRmerger]

How many people were raised from the dead in your ministry? How many thousands have you healed and saved?

How would this prove that “the Bible is all you need” isn’t a man-made tradition?

All you would have to do, rather than healing “thousands”, would be to show us where “the Bible is all you need” is in the Scriptures.

No need to raise the dead to show this.

Rather, you simply heard a man say that it’s all you need, who heard another man say it…but it’s not something that’s found in the Bible, eazy.

Stop being duped into believing something the Bible never states.

Rather believe what the Church says: all Scripture is inspired by God.

But that’s not all we need.

No one was saved by a Book, no matter how holy.

 

[PRmerger]

Great Christians have proved by their very lives that that the Bible is indeed sufficient.

Incidentally eazy, how would that even work, that the Bible is the only thing that you need?

How would you have gotten the Bible without the Church?

Wouldn’t that presuppose that you had an authority which pre-existed the Bible (OT plus NT)?

Think about it.

The Bible didn’t float down from heaven, in King James format, leather bound, and ready to read.

Some authority had to declare it to be Scripture.

And that means you need something else besides the Bible.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Incidentally eazy, how would that even work, that the Bible is the only thing that you need?

How would you have gotten the Bible without the Church?

Wouldn’t that presuppose that you had an authority which pre-existed the Bible (OT plus NT)?

Think about it.

The Bible didn’t float down from heaven, in King James format, leather bound, and ready to read.

Some authority had to declare it to be Scripture.

And that means you need something else besides the Bible.

God declared it scripture , or are u saying that the Trinity isn’t enough somehow ?

 

[eazyduzit]

The Bible disagrees with this statement. The Bible says the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, and that Christians shall know how to behave by remaining in the Church. Jesus also says to take our questions and disputes to the Church. Scripture also tells us to hold to the traditions that have been given to us.

Scripture also warns not to interpret Scripture individually, and that many will read Scripture and twist it to their own destruction. So Scripture says we need much MORE than just Scripture.

I’m curious, if you were living in 50AD, what would you have done? Would you follow a leader, such as Peter, or followed a Bible, much of which hadn’t been written yet?

The Bible does not disagree. The Church is to preserve and publish and preach the truth. It is not the truth. Only God’s Word is truth. But without the church, how can the gospel be presented to the world?

The following of certain personalities and teachings is what Paul called CARNALITY in 1Cor.3. V.4 “For one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?”

 

[benhur]

How would this prove that “the Bible is all you need” isn’t a man-made tradition?

All you would have to do, rather than healing “thousands”, would be to show us where “the Bible is all you need” is in the Scriptures.

No need to raise the dead to show this.

Rather, you simply heard a man say that it’s all you need, who heard another man say it…but it’s not something that’s found in the Bible, eazy.

Stop being duped into believing something the Bible never states.

Rather believe what the Church says: all Scripture is inspired by God.

But that’s not all we need.

No one was saved by a Book, no matter how holy.

Then nobody is saved by a church either, no matter how holy or spot on. Nor by Tradition. Nor by a council or magisterium. Nor by wit.

Blessings

PS Jesus saves quite universally/catholic/Catholic.

 

[eazyduzit]

Threads like this go around and around in circles and way off topic. For men of good will who truly seek to know what the Church teaches and believes about justification, and where is our common ground with mainline Protestants, I offer the following landmark document.

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION

by the Lutheran World Federation and the Catholic Church

I found that the Joint Declaration just whitewashed the differences and avoided the core issue.
Here at the Forum we don’t even try to be politically correct.

 

[eazyduzit]

How would this prove that “the Bible is all you need” isn’t a man-made tradition?

All you would have to do, rather than healing “thousands”, would be to show us where “the Bible is all you need” is in the Scriptures.

No need to raise the dead to show this.

Rather, you simply heard a man say that it’s all you need, who heard another man say it…but it’s not something that’s found in the Bible, eazy.

Stop being duped into believing something the Bible never states.

Rather believe what the Church says: all Scripture is inspired by God.

But that’s not all we need.

No one was saved by a Book, no matter how holy.

Sorry PR, but no one can be saved without “the book”. Jn8:32 " And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." The truth makes us free, or saves, not the church. As Jesus said in v. 31, “If you continue in My WORD, then are you my disciples indeed.”
He does not say “the church”, just His Word.

 

[Michael68]

I was not accusing anyone of being a cult. I was stating my objections to making claims of special knowledge or guidance. This is why people follow such leaders as Rev. Moon or David Koresh or Joseph Smith. All we need is the bible. It is the safest route. That is why Paul warned the Galatians not to accept any other gospel even if it came from him. They were to keep to the original blueprint which he once delivered and confirmed with signs and wonders.

I think you would miss me if i left. We need to challenge each other. Its a good exercise for me. I need to understand how others believe and know Christ.

Where does the bible say “all we need is the bible”? Sacred Scripture says to “hold fast to these teachings whether by letter or word” Can you show the scripture that says bible only? I know the one about scripture being good for correction, but that doesn’t say bible alone.

 

[benhur]

Where does the bible say “all we need is the bible”? Sacred Scripture says to “hold fast to these teachings whether by letter or word” Can you show the scripture that says bible only? I know the one about scripture being good for correction, but that doesn’t say bible alone.

Well, we do not have the apostles original words but we now sure have their written word, and that is a good tradition

Blessings

 

[benhur]

Indeed.

And what is the canon you use to compare what she (the Church) teaches to?

Answer: Sacred Tradition.

Remember, the NT is a product of the Church. So it cannot be the canon by which you measure the truth of what the Church professes.

Well more the church even the authors/writers were /are stewards of His Words. Not sure “product” is the succinct word . I thought Vat2 was trying to get away from that divisive mentality, push me/pull me, my church/ your church in the spirit of ecumenicalism. At best God gave the church, the Catholic Church, the bible.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

I didn’t say Peter killed them himself, I said Peter pronounced their sentence.

James “ran” the council as it was held in his diocese, but when Peter spoke, the issue was settled and everyone went silent.

Authority is the biggest issue. But there is no such thing as a vacuum in authority. Those who reject the magisterium of the Church are in reality placing themselves in that role. This is contrary to scripture by the way.

Yes, no vacuum in authority, as in if there be no pope we we would not implode.(if that is what u mean).

If there were no other magisterium save the Catholic one, then rejecting it would place us “alone” as our own teachers. But there are other magisteriums, even traditions.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

Can you please speak to specifics on this statement ben, hard to answer to generalities.

Basically that there are other magisteriums and authority structures in O and P’s, and of course with differences from Catholic structure and practice.