What is the Eastern Orthodox view of the Catholic Church?

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dzheremi said:
lacking nothing in its worship or understanding of the apostolic faith.
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And this is the same for us.

However… I don’t think either one of us is complete yet… We are both missing something… Each other.

Until we are one again.

:signofcross:
 
Randy_Carson said:
If you read all the posts in the thread, you will see that the problem is not just one priest.
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I’ve been following the thread faithfully. And where the poster I was responding to was concerned, their experience was in fact based on one priest, in large part, as well as other people encountered at the parish and maybe elsewhere.

How do the faults and sins of Orthodox individuals, whether many or few, at all demonstrate that the teachings to which we hold are not correct?
 
dzheremi said:
And you would know that because you know so much about Orthodox spirituality (being a Catholic and all), or about Met. Ware, or…what exactly are you basing this on?

I have to say, even though I own it myself I cringe a little bit when Met. Ware’s (he wasn’t Metropolitan of anything when he wrote it) book is recommended to those who are interested in Orthodoxy. It’s not his fault; I think it’s a matter of the book being taken as an authoritative reference rather than one of the more readable introductions to Byzantine Orthodoxy in English.

The best introduction, of course, is going to a liturgy. I doubt you’ll find anything missing there spiritually, unless you go there expecting to find Latin devotions and leave disappointed when they’re not there.

The Orthodox Church has absolutely nothing to learn from other churches. Individual Orthodox people, maybe (e.g., I had to explain to people at my church that RCs do not worship the Theotokos or place her as equal to God), but the Church itself is whole and complete, lacking nothing in its worship or understanding of the apostolic faith.
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Well, I was going to praise you for your monastic tradition, etc., and if you read my post carefully, you’ll see that I was saying that we could learn a few things from you, but never mind.
 
Trebor135 said:
I’ve been following the thread faithfully. And where the poster I was responding to was concerned, their experience was in fact based on one priest, in large part, as well as other people encountered at the parish and maybe elsewhere.

How do the faults and sins of Orthodox individuals, whether many or few, at all demonstrate that the teachings to which we hold are not correct?
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I don’t think I faulted your teachings, did I?

No, I think I was pointing out the pattern of negative experiences that many Catholics have when interacting with EO.

Like the charitable post I just got from dzheremi. :rolleyes:
 
We’re told to think the best about our brothers and sisters…let’s just agree that each person is zealous for the truth as it is revealed to him/her, and all contentions are due to faithful guardianship of that…

The internet is especially prone to fostering misunderstanding of the intent of posters…People have different methods of conveying a message that may seem sour even though the motive was not to be such…

Let’s think happy thoughts…like the future unity of Christianity…if not on earth, then in heaven. (without getting into salvation being only within each respective Church…)

:grouphug:
 
Trebor135 said:
Why did you take one individual priest’s attitude and approach as some kind of proof that Orthodoxy is not the true apostolic faith? If an Anglican met a Catholic priest who they found to harbour animoscity against Protestantism and its adherents, would they be justified in heading out the door and never going back?

Your methodology for determining where the true Church is, I find baffling and unfair.

If you believe the Catholic Church is the true body of Christ, how can it lack anything?
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It was several priests, and several parishes of different ‘jurisdictions’. I actually have Orthodox friends that commiserate with me, two are ex-Catholic, one ex-Lutheran, one ex-Methodist and one a cradle. I have been on a journey all my life, half a century, and yes I mean a spiritual closeness to God. I settled with one Orthodox parish simply because it was the closest allowing me to attend all the services, feasts, vespers, matins, Pascha takes your breath away…I attended a whole liturgical year. All I ever felt was an intense sadness, left in tears almost every time. I had to stand back from both churches and evaluate them. Adoration in a Catholic church helped me recuperate. I have felt close to God ALL my life, he was NOT with me in an Orthodox liturgy no matter the smells, the bells, the chanting, the fasting. I wanted the Orthodox liturgy. My hands were tied there, I was NOT Orthodox. I am a lifelong Christian, a fellow believer in Christ, a lot further along than the Ethiopian that Philip met, yet not worthy of baptism or chrismation, just interrogation.

Do you think I didnt try asking questions about Orthodoxy on Eastern Orthodox forums? They are very hostile, even towards each other. I once asked a non-canonical priest to describe that situation. It was like I was dialoguing with the anti-Christ. Lord have mercy. I know of what I speak.
 
Casilda said:
It was several priests, and several parishes of different ‘jurisdictions’. I actually have Orthodox friends that commiserate with me, two are ex-Catholic, one ex-Lutheran, one ex-Methodist and one a cradle. I have been on a journey all my life, half a century, and yes I mean a spiritual closeness to God. I settled with one Orthodox parish simply because it was the closest allowing me to attend all the services, feasts, vespers, matins, Pascha takes your breath away…I attended a whole liturgical year. All I ever felt was an intense sadness, left in tears almost every time. I had to stand back from both churches and evaluate them. Adoration in a Catholic church helped me recuperate. I have felt close to God ALL my life, he was NOT with me in an Orthodox liturgy no matter the smells, the bells, the chanting, the fasting. I wanted the Orthodox liturgy. My hands were tied there, I was NOT Orthodox. I am a lifelong Christian, a fellow believer in Christ, a lot further along than the Ethiopian that Philip met, yet not worthy of baptism or chrismation, just interrogation.

Do you think I didnt try asking questions about Orthodoxy on Eastern Orthodox forums? They are very hostile, even towards each other. I once asked a non-canonical priest to describe that situation. It was like I was dialoguing with the anti-Christ. Lord have mercy. I know of what I speak.
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Hostility. Yes, I can see that.
 
Casilda said:
It was several priests, and several parishes of different ‘jurisdictions’. I actually have Orthodox friends that commiserate with me, two are ex-Catholic, one ex-Lutheran, one ex-Methodist and one a cradle. I have been on a journey all my life, half a century, and yes I mean a spiritual closeness to God. I settled with one Orthodox parish simply because it was the closest allowing me to attend all the services, feasts, vespers, matins, Pascha takes your breath away…I attended a whole liturgical year. All I ever felt was an intense sadness, left in tears almost every time. I had to stand back from both churches and evaluate them. Adoration in a Catholic church helped me recuperate. I have felt close to God ALL my life, he was NOT with me in an Orthodox liturgy no matter the smells, the bells, the chanting, the fasting. I wanted the Orthodox liturgy. My hands were tied there, I was NOT Orthodox. I am a lifelong Christian, a fellow believer in Christ, a lot further along than the Ethiopian that Philip met, yet not worthy of baptism or chrismation, just interrogation.

Do you think I didnt try asking questions about Orthodoxy on Eastern Orthodox forums? They are very hostile, even towards each other. I once asked a non-canonical priest to describe that situation. It was like I was dialoguing with the anti-Christ. Lord have mercy. I know of what I speak.
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Have you ever tried searching for God within your own heart. It seems to me you are only looking to all these outward signs of God by which you describe in your posts. Perhaps your search needs to be more inward. It is a matter of faith that out Divine Liturgies and Masses are only one part that is included in our search for what God is searching in us. It is only one side of the coin so we must find the other side of the coin, in other words to flip it to see what it can do for us and for God. I find most people do well going to Church on Sunday or at any other time when they participate in the Sacraments but our sanctity must also include what we do outside the Sacraments. It is therefore even more important for us to discover that God searches for these moments from us even with greater importance than what He does for us in the sacraments. James had written in his epistle the more we draw close to God the more He draws close to us. This closeness has to do more (when you are able) of what you do outside the Mass and the Divine Liturgy. If you will like for me to give you a devotion that you can participate during the week please give consideration to the Divine Mercy messages that our Lord had given to St. Maria Faustina and to the Chaplet of the Divine Mercy. Perhaps you know of it and are praying it as a devotion. It is the devotions and prayers that we need to connect with our Lord outside the Mass and Divine Liturgy that will bring importance to what the Mass and Divine Liturgy does for you. On Sunday God invites us so the best thing we need to do is to invite Him in during the week into our hearts. He gives of His Heart on Sunday and at every time you attend to the Sacrament and you allow Him to enter your heart sometime during the week. This is what God is waiting for and hopefully will bring to you more meaning and fulfilment.
 
Chimo: I agree with you. spirituality and trying to live the Gosples and seeking inside makes a lot of sense.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Be at peace…you were not on my list of folks I expected to hear from. I’m a lightning rod for a certain crowd. 😉

I see that you are in the process of swimming the Tiber. Congratulations and safe passage!
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I definitely am at peace now. Not to worry, I’m a bit of a lightning rod myself to some users, as well. :o

Thank you so much! 😃 Stay safe, friend! 😉
 
Cavaradossi said:
You receive hostility in the measure you mete it out.
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Thank you, Brother Cavaradossi.

Of course, others first commented on the shameful hostility of some EO toward Catholics…I simply concurred with the consensus opinion based on my limited experience in these forums. Perhaps you will work hard to convince me that this opinion is unfounded?
I have noticed, by the way, that you no longer post in the EC subforum. Why is that? 🙂
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Charity. 😉
 
Cavaradossi said:
You receive hostility in the measure you mete it out. I have noticed, by the way, that you no longer post in the EC subforum. Why is that? 🙂
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We are all perplexed from the confused Augustine argument we are all guilty and condemned to death. Most absurd argument I ever heard and upheld by the EO at least at this moment. (read above Eastern forum)

That assures we will keep the Incarnation/Nature of Christ “confused” in relation to Mary, thus the Communion of Saints and General Judgement. Needless to say it goes further off the rails down here. 😃
 
Randy_Carson said:
I have nothing like the experience you have had, but a few months of interaction with Orthodox here in this forum have convinced me that yours is not an isolated case.

The animosity you and other posters have described truly flows one way only. (Just watch to see how my comments are belittled.)
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Well, I would hope that you’re comments are not going to be belittled; but I would expect a strong reaction to that “one way” assertion (just as I would expect a strong reaction if an Orthodox made the reverse assertion).
 
Peter_J said:
Well, I would hope that you’re comments are not going to be belittled; but I would a strong reaction to that “one way” assertion (just as I would expect a strong reaction if an Orthodox made the reverse assertion).
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Yeah, but let me ask you this: have you ever faced any hostility from a Roman Catholic specifically due to the fact that you are Melkite?

I mean, if the average Catholic in my parish were to be introduced to someone from the Melkite or Maronite traditions, responses would range from “Cool!” to “How nice…what’s a Melkite?”

Not very menacing. 😛
 
Generalizations are dangerous, but nearly irresistible things. Why are we so drawn to them?

That said, here’s mine:

If catholics have a fault with regards to interacting with EO, it tends to be one of condescension. Not all, mind you, but those with a flaw.

If EO have a fault with regards to interacting with catholics, it tends to be something rather akin to the Napolean complex (itching for a fight, instantly ready to quibble…).

Attempting to affix blame is fruitless unless you recognize that it goes all the way back to the fall. Humans find ways not to get along. Fallen nature of the beast. Wish I were immune!
 
Manualman: You have a way with words and I have to agree with you on that. Its the best statement so far in any forum I looked at and been in. There is much in the way of truth in what you stated so I think we all need to remember that.
 
Peter_J said:
Complete non-sequitur, since Melkites are Catholic. And yes I have.
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I know that, but many do not, so I think it would be a safe assumption that many Roman Catholics will have no reaction to the fact that you are Melkite - either positively or negatively.

Now, in the South, I seriously doubt that 99+% of Roman Catholics could give a hoot as to whether you’re Melkite or not. We don’t have a history of religious persecutions here like those of eastern Europe. But if you say it happened, all I can say is that it surprises me.

Do you have any thoughts as to WHY someone took exception to your Melkite affiliation? What were the circumstances? 🤷
 
Randy_Carson said:
I know that, but many do not, so I think it would be a safe assumption that many Roman Catholics will have no reaction to the fact that you are Melkite - either positively or negatively.

Now, I’m not sure where you live, but in the United States, I seriously doubt that 99+% of Roman Catholics could give a hoot as to whether you’re Melkite or not. We don’t have a history of ethnic or religious persecution here like those of eastern Europe. But if you say it happened, all I can say is that it surprises me.

Do you have any thoughts as to WHY someone took exception to your Melkite affiliation? What were the circumstances? 🤷
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It is not unusual for us Eastern Catholics in the USA to have the legitimacy of our Eastern traditions called into question by Roman Catholics. Some even question whether we are truly Catholic at all. In fact, I’ve had a member of my wife’s family suggest that we are a cult and say that the Eastern Catholic understanding of theosis is blasphemous.
 
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