What is the fundamental reason a person defends abortion?

[gurneyhalleck1]

It is terrifying to try and get into the pro-abortion/pro-choice mindset and to analyze their rationale. What is the fundamental reason a person defends abortion? People in this thread have put out some good theories, most fairly plausible. But let me put forth another theory…

The radical Far Left sees women’s equality as a radically different thing than the Catholic sees it. They see it as an almost ontological equality in which men and women are totally the same essence and are biologically equal. Let me explain (mind you, this is their view, not mine)…a man and a woman shack up and cohabitate. The man gets the woma pregnant. After four months, he falls for another girl, gets tired of the pregnant mother of his child, and says “see ya later!” He leaves, moves out of state. Now she’s stuck with the pregnancy and he has no responsibility whatsoever. One is stuck, the other is free. The Left views this as a biological inequity that a woman has to bear the brunt of the situation and the man can be irresponsible. So, to make our society even-Steven and biologically just, we make it so the woman can kill her baby and be even with the man who bolted on her; now. Now that he left the scene, she can leave the scene. From their angle, if the woman has to bring the child to term against her will, it places some kind of inequality on her. It’s essentially another attempt to try to make a woman a man. It’s all about the women’s movement and a misunderstanding of the true nature of men and women. The same sad logic that leads to women’s ordination leads to child murder. Thank God the Catholic Church gets it right! :thumbsup:Too bad society doesn’t. What ends up happening is nobody wins, most especially the little child who never got a chance at life. Human existence is about more than “equality” and biology, it’s about the spiritual, inner life, about Christ Jesus, about eternity, about cultivating the interior saint in us, not convenience and a constant crusade to turn men and women into a vague Ziggy Stardust androgynous being devoid of God.

 

[BillP]

Speaking only for myself:

I support our legal system providing the right to choose because I (and most other people in the US) do not believe human life begins at conception, but sometime thereafter.

While I recognize that I personally am bound by my membership in the Catholic Church to respect its definition of the beginning of life when evaluating my own conduct, 225 million of my countrymen aren’t Catholic and are therefore not bound to respect Catholic teaching in this area.

There is a reason medical science defines pregnancy as starting with the implantation of he embryo into the wall of the uterus. Once the fetus reaches viability (is able to exist outside the womb), then I believe it acquires rights that are in certain cases more compelling that the rights of the mother.

In short, Catholics can’t have abortions, but not everyone is Catholic. If we try to force the 75% of the US population who aren’t Catholic to adhere to Catholic teaching on this what’s next? Are we going to try passing laws making it illegal for restaurants to serve meat on Lenten Fridays?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Speaking only for myself:

I support our legal system providing the right to choose because I (and most other people in the US) do not believe human life begins at conception, but sometime thereafter.

While I recognize that I personally am bound by my membership in the Catholic Church to respect its definition of the beginning of life when evaluating my own conduct, 225 million of my countrymen aren’t Catholic and are therefore not bound to respect Catholic teaching in this area.

There is a reason medical science defines pregnancy as starting with the implantation of he embryo into the wall of the uterus. Once the fetus reaches viability (is able to exist outside the womb), then I believe it acquires rights that are in certain cases more compelling that the rights of the mother.

In short, Catholics can’t have abortions, but not everyone is Catholic. If we try to force the 75% of the US population who aren’t Catholic to adhere to Catholic teaching on this what’s next? Are we going to try passing laws making it illegal for restaurants to serve meat on Lenten Fridays?

I think the life of a baby is a little higher on the scale of importance than abstinence from meat! Does it matter that not everyone is Catholic? That is their sorrow! Catholics (the ones who are following Church teaching) are RIGHT on this issue - and the people who are pro-abortion are WRONG.

Why not err on the side of life, since we don’t know the point where God ensouls the baby? Why not? What is benefited by abortion? Over 50 million babies have been killed since 1973, often in the most horrible ways such as being burned by having saline solution injected into the amniotic fluid. Abortion rips their tiny bodies apart into pieces. Who benefits from this?

I actually don’t care if I’m the only one who believes that babies need protection from the minute the sperm hits the egg. I don’t care how many people are or aren’t Catholic. The act of sexual intercourse was DESIGNED by God to produce children! It’s not an accident to become pregnant! If you don’t want to have a baby then don’t have sexual intercourse! Abortion is always wrong. Always. No conditions.

 

[BillP]

I think the life of a baby is a little higher on the scale of importance than abstinence from meat! Does it matter that not everyone is Catholic? That is their sorrow! Catholics (the ones who are following Church teaching) are RIGHT on this issue - and the people who are pro-abortion are WRONG.

Let me assure you that EVERYONE thinks he or she is RIGHT and EVERYONE ELSE is WRONG!

I actually don’t care if I’m the only one who believes that babies need protection from the minute the sperm hits the egg. I don’t care how many people are or aren’t Catholic. The act of sexual intercourse was DESIGNED by God to produce children! It’s not an accident to become pregnant! If you don’t want to have a baby then don’t have sexual intercourse! Abortion is always wrong. Always. No conditions.

Then I am very glad that we I live in a Democracy where people like you aren’t in charge.

 

[davidv]

Speaking only for myself:

I support our legal system providing the right to choose because I (and most other people in the US) do not believe human life begins at conception, but sometime thereafter.

I am curious why you believe human life doesn’t begin at conception. Do you have some medical/scientific evidence that it does not?

{snip}

 

[BillP]

Why not err on the side of life, since we don’t know the point where God ensouls the baby? Why not? What is benefited by abortion?

The young girls who are able to continue their educations and achieve independent productive lives because they aren’t saddled with more responsibility than they can bear when they’re 14 or 15.

The children who will have enough to eat and adequate clothing because their parents chose to terminate a pregnancy that would have resulted on one more child than they could provide for.

The children who will grow up with their Mom taking care of them instead of dying while trying to carry a pregnancy to full term.

Over 50 million babies have been killed since 1973, often in the most horrible ways such as being burned by having saline solution injected into the amniotic fluid. Abortion rips their tiny bodies apart into pieces. Who benefits from this?

This is just overly dramatic claptrap. Be honest. Would it matter to you if abortion was a humane and painless procedure? No you’d still be against it. the don’t pretend that you’re against it because of the “burning saline” or the “tearing of litle bodies”. That’s just inflammatory rhetoric designed to stop people from thinking.

 

[BillP]

I am curious why you believe human life doesn’t begin at conception. Do you have some medical/scientific evidence that it does not?

The salient point, at least to me is that MOST fertilized eggs don’t result in babies even in the natural course of things.

40% of fertilized eggs never implant in the uterine wall, and of the 60% that do successfully implant, only 75% come to term. So of 100 fertilized eggs, we get ~45 babies, even in the best of times.

There are ~4 million childen born in the US each year, so either we go into massive mourning for the 4.9 million “babies” that didn’t make it (which by the way dwarfs the 1.4 million abortions) or we find another way to determine the “beginning of life”.

 

[BillP]

I agree but people who don’t use reason often resort to inflammatory rhetoric to try to carry their points.

You scamp!!

You changed your post after I commented.

Sorry I misunderstood you!

I wasn’t dismissing the torture and dismembering as claptrap, I was characterizing her argument that she was against abortion because of those things as claptrap and intellectually dishonest.

Which it was.

 

[dmelosi]

The young girls who are able to continue their educations and achieve independent productive lives because they aren’t saddled with more responsibility than they can bear when they’re 14 or 15.

The children who will have enough to eat and adequate clothing because their parents chose to terminate a pregnancy that would have resulted on one more child than they could provide for.

The children who will grow up with their Mom taking care of them instead of dying while trying to carry a pregnancy to full term.

This is just overly dramatic claptrap. Be honest. Would it matter to you if abortion was a humane and painless procedure? No you’d still be against it. the don’t pretend that you’re against it because of the “burning saline” or the “tearing of litle bodies”. That’s just inflammatory rhetoric designed to stop people from thinking.

We who believe what God teaches, that it is a human being, call it like it is. It is those who believe otherwise that cringe when they realize what they actually condone.

 

[jilly4ski]

Speaking only for myself:

There is a reason medical science defines pregnancy as starting with the implantation of he embryo into the wall of the uterus. Once the fetus reaches viability (is able to exist outside the womb), then I believe it acquires rights that are in certain cases more compelling that the rights of the mother.

I want to know where people get this information that pregnancy only starts once implantation occurred. When I was getting prenatal care, they counted my pregnancy from the first day of my cycle, thus 2 weeks before conception actually occurred. Why the double speak. Why say pregnancy is defined after implantation, but then count the pregnancy from 2 weeks before conception which is 5 weeks before implantation? It seems like there is some intentional duplicity. Besides, by the time a woman knows she is pregnant implantation has already occurred.

 

[BillP]

I’m not sure what you’re asking here…

 

[dmelosi]

The salient point, at least to me is that MOST fertilized eggs don’t result in babies even in the natural course of things.

40% of fertilized eggs never implant in the uterine wall, and of the 60% that do successfully implant, only 75% come to term. So of 100 fertilized eggs, we get ~45 babies, even in the best of times.

There are ~4 million childen born in the US each year, so either we go into massive mourning for the 4.9 million “babies” that didn’t make it (which by the way dwarfs the 1.4 million abortions) or we find another way to determine the “beginning of life”.

That is the problem, people who think they have the right to decide about life.

 

[BillP]

I want to know where people get this information that pregnancy only starts once implantation occurred.

The medical community defines it that way chiefly because so many embryos don’t successfully implant.

There is only a short window during which an egg can be fertilized. If fertilization does not occur during that time, the egg dissolves and then hormonal changes trigger menstruation; however, if fertilization does occur, the zygote divides and differentiates into a “preembryo” while being carried down the fallopian tube toward the uterus. Implantation of the preembryo in the uterine lining begins about five days after fertilization. Implantation can be completed as early as eight days or as late as 18 days after fertilization, but usually takes about 14 days. Between one-third and one-half of all fertilized eggs never fully implant. A pregnancy is considered to be established only after implantation is complete. Source: American College of Obstetricans and Gynecologists.

 

[Archangelic]

It’s usually one of three things:

1. Guilt
2. Ignorance
3. Moral depravity

Or a combination of those things.

 

[BillP]

No state is perfect. But any legitimate government derives its authority from the consent of the governed, so far we’re doing ok.

 

[jilly4ski]

The salient point, at least to me is that MOST fertilized eggs don’t result in babies even in the natural course of things.

40% of fertilized eggs never implant in the uterine wall, and of the 60% that do successfully implant, only 75% come to term. So of 100 fertilized eggs, we get ~45 babies, even in the best of times.

There are ~4 million childen born in the US each year, so either we go into massive mourning for the 4.9 million “babies” that didn’t make it (which by the way dwarfs the 1.4 million abortions) or we find another way to determine the “beginning of life”.

We all die. (The only certainties in life are death and taxes). Some die at ripe old ages some die in middle age, some as children, some as babies. But it is always wrong to kill these people, even though they will all die. An unborn child, will some day die, whether that is before they are born or even implanted, or when they reach 95 years old, the point is that at some point in their development an human being with its own unique DNA has died, but natural events caused its death, we did not kill him or her.

 

[davidv]

The salient point, at least to me is that MOST fertilized eggs don’t result in babies even in the natural course of things.

40% of fertilized eggs never implant in the uterine wall, and of the 60% that do successfully implant, only 75% come to term. So of 100 fertilized eggs, we get ~45 babies, even in the best of times.

There are ~4 million childen born in the US each year, so either we go into massive mourning for the 4.9 million “babies” that didn’t make it (which by the way dwarfs the 1.4 million abortions) or we find another way to determine the “beginning of life”.

I don’t see any scientific denial of life beginning a conception in these statistics. How does the end of life determine its beginning? Whether it lasts 30 seconds or 100 years, how does this change its beginning?

 

[BillP]

I don’t see any scientific denial of life beginning a conception in these statistics. How does the end of life determine its beginning? Whether it lasts 30 seconds or 100 years, how does this change its beginning?

I see that we disagree.

C’est la vie! (geddit?)

 

[jilly4ski]

A pregnancy is considered to be established only after implantation is complete. Source: American College of Obstetricans and Gynecologists.

umm there is a difference between an established pregnancy and the start of a pregnancy.

(Settlers move to a new land and start building buildings and a fence, but they don’t say their little town is established until the fence is complete, that doesn’t mean that their settlement hadn’t started before that point).

 

[BillP]

I don’t see any scientific denial of life beginning a conception in these statistics. How does the end of life determine its beginning? Whether it lasts 30 seconds or 100 years, how does this change its beginning?

The main point is that people who continually equate fertilized eggs with babies are being logically inconsistent.

An acorn, for example, contains all the necessary DNA and genetic material to form a new tree, but no one claims an acorn is a tree.

Are acorns alive?