What is the Gospel message?

[wisdomseeker]

the scriptures were God breathed. and useful for teaching. I am using the only authority there is. The Word.of God. Where in my comments am i denying the Church. The body of believers is the Church. The scripture tells us not to forsake the assembling together(that is the gathering of his Church). I am part of the Church. I am not sure i understand your argument. Maybe you should look up what the meaning of the Church is before you make a comment like this. You can not make your own definition to fit your theology.

ἐκκλησία (ekklēsia 1577)

1. church
   the common term for a meeting of the ἔκκλητοι (ekklētoi) (those summoned) to discuss the affairs of a Free State; the body of citizens summoned together by a herald (κῆρυξ (kērux 2783)). The Greek translation of the Old Test. transfer the term to the assembly of the people of Israel, whether summoned or met for a definite purpose (1Ki 8:65), or considered as the representative of the entire nation. In NT it denotes the redeemed community in its two-fold aspect. (i) The entire community of all who are called by and to Christ out of the world, the Church universal (ii) every Church in which the character of the Church as a whole is seen in miniature. The summoning is expressed by the latter part of the word (καλεῖν (kalein)), and out of by the first part (ἐκ (ek 1537)). It does not occur in Joh 1 and 2Jo 2 Timothy, Titus, Jude (this specific meaning occurs only in Act 19:32,39,41). Reference(s)
   Mat 16:18, Mat 18:17, Mat 18:17, Act 5:11, Act 7:38, Act 8:1, Act 8:3, Act 11:22, Act 11:26, Act 12:1, Act 12:5, Act 13:1, Act 14:23, Act 14:27, Act 15:3, Act 15:4, Act 15:22, Act 18:22, Act 20:17, Act 20:28, Rom 16:1, Rom 16:5, Rom 16:23, 1Co 1:2, 1Co 4:17, 1Co 6:4, 1Co 10:32, 1Co 11:18, 1Co 11:22, 1Co 12:28, 1Co 14:4, 1Co 14:5, 1Co 14:12, 1Co 14:19, 1Co 14:23, 1Co 14:28, 1Co 14:35, 1Co 15:9, 1Co 16:19, 2Co 1:1, Gal 1:13, Eph 1:22, Eph 3:10, Eph 3:21, Eph 5:23, Eph 5:24, Eph 5:25, Eph 5:27, Eph 5:29, Eph 5:32, Php 3:6, Php 4:15, Col 1:18, Col 1:24, Col 4:15, Col 4:16, 1Th 1:1, 2Th 1:1, 1Ti 3:5, 1Ti 3:15, 1Ti 5:16, Phm 1:2, Heb 2:12, Heb 12:23, Jas 5:14, 3Jo 1:6, 3Jo 1:9, 3Jo 1:10, Rev 2:1, Rev 2:8, Rev 2:12, Rev 2:18, Rev 3:1, Rev 3:7, Rev 3:14

here this should help you in understanding the Church i have been talking about. do you know this Church? this is the Church i know.

zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m3/4mrkc.html

 

[wisdomseeker]

Vulcano37214, When a RC says the word “Church” they believe it is the Roman Catholic Church, the one that Jesus Christ founded. Even though there is know way to trace that line, they still believe that. Get used to it if you post here.

Your definition is spot on though!
God Bless

This is not something we believe. we know it is the Truth. we know.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Vulcano37214, When a RC says the word “Church” they believe it is the Roman Catholic Church, the one that Jesus Christ founded. Even though there is know way to trace that line, they still believe that. Get used to it if you post here.

Your definition is spot on though!
God Bless

Brandon this is incorrect though I can see why you would hope it would be true. It is easier for you to argue against your false notions of what the Church teaches than against what it actually teaches. One of my first responses to you was advising you to read the Catechism so you knew what the Church taught about itself. Again you did not heed the advice. I can only wonder why…

There are problems with what you say above. You say that the “church” is the Latin Rite of the Church. You then leave out all the other 20 something rites that are apart of it including the Eastern Rites.

The second problem, is that it is incorrect:

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . .** All **who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#I

So tell me Brandon, where in the above do you see your assertion that one must be a member of the Latin Rite?

Now that you have been shown (instead of asked to read) the true teaching, for you to continue to spout your misunderstandings would be bearing false witness. Choose wisely.

God bless

 

[Brandon72]

Brandon this is incorrect though I can see why you would hope it would be true. It is easier for you to argue against your false notions of what the Church teaches than against what it actually teaches. One of my first responses to you was advising you to read the Catechism so you knew what the Church taught about itself. Again you did not heed the advice. I can only wonder why…

There are problems with what you say above. You say that the “church” is the Latin Rite of the Church. You then leave out all the other 20 something rites that are apart of it including the Eastern Rites.

The second problem, is that it is incorrect:

scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#I

So tell me Brandon, where in the above do you see your assertion that one must be a member of the Latin Rite?

Now that you have been shown (instead of asked to read) the true teaching, for you to continue to spout your misunderstandings would be bearing false witness. Choose wisely.

God bless

The problem I have with what you quoted is that is written by uninspired men. The Scriptures that we have tell us the truth. That was written by men lead through the Holy Spirit, so that we may know the truth in what Jesus taught His 12. There is no church body other than the true believers who are born from above. If you are born from above you are part of the Church Jesus is building. The traditions you are following came long after the written word. And none of these were practiced by the Apostles or the early Christians of the first and second centuries. Man has added to many pagan practices to what true worship is supposed to be. Just look at the practices of the pagan religions in Rome before Christianity was made the religion of the state. When you study that, you will find out why I am against all these practices of Rome.

I think this is pretty accurate:

1 . Prayers for the dead . …………-------------------……300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross ………………………… …300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints …………---------…….375 A.D.
4. Use of images in worship………………………………… . 375 A.D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration……………………………… 394 A.D.
6 Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, “Mother of God” applied a Council of Ephesus……………. .----------------------------------------- 431 A.D.
7 Extreme Unction (Last Rites)……………………………… …526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory 1…………………………… .593 A.D…
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……………………………… .600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics ……………………… … 786 A.D.
11 Canonization of dead saints ………………………………… …995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood …………………………………… …1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary ……………………………………………… … 1090 A.D.
14. Indulgences ……………………………………………… ……1190 A.D.
15. Transubstantiation-Innocent III …………………………… 1215 A.D.
16. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest …………………… 1215 A.D.
17. Adoration of the wafer (Host)…………………………… … 1220 A.D.
18. Cup forbidden to the people at communion ……………………1414 A.D.
19. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma………………………………1439 A.D.
20. The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed …………….1439 A.D.
21 Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent…………………………………………----------------… 1545 A.D.
22. Apocryphal books added to Bible ………------------……….1546 A.D.
23. Immaculate Conception of Mary……………………………….1854 A.D.
24, Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the Vatican Council ……………… 1870 A.D.
25. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) ……………………………-----------------------------------……1950 A.D.
26. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church……………………… 1965 A.D.

None of this what taught by Jesus or His 12 disciples. You ignore the true history of the Christians who came to faith in the first and second centuries. Baptism wasn’t even done for years sometimes because a Christian had to go through training to learn what it meant to be a true follower of Christ. And they weren’t taught any of the Roman practices listed above.

God Bless