What is the Gospel?

[bookgirl32]

Because I enjoy discussing things with Catholic siblings. I thought that was common knowledge for most orthodox Catholics. Oh well, that’s why we have Catholic Answers. Do you consider yourself to be an orthodox Catholic or a cafeteria Catholic?

Orthodox is an actual, official term. “Cafeteria Catholic” is what we would call slang for any number of things.

Topic for another thread: the difference between dogma and doctrine. I was trying to get a feel for if you actually believed that the Church only “laid claim” to a few verses. Obviously, you do.

 

[bookgirl32]

Of course, since the Word of God is the Word of God. God the Holy Spirit must illuminate truth in the Scriptures for us fallen creatures to understand . You must have the Holy Spirit to understand the Scirptures with effectual results. Why do you think Jesus spoke in parables?

So do you believe that God makes this correct interpretation available?

 

[bookgirl32]

I understand the Catholic belief. However, cafeteria Catholics need to understand that they will not find dogmatic interpertations of most of the Scriptures such as Matthew 16.

And you obviously don’t understand dogma, period.

 

[Carlan]

That sure seems a very tough way to live out the Christian life to the praise and glory of God’s saving and transforming grace. If our goal as Christians is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever, then the uncertainty of not knowing that you will eternally be in the kingdom of God would work against you… at least from the glasses perspective that I am wearing. What happens if I live a life pleasing to God, and I slipped up for the last two months at the end of my life due to some circumstances in my life?

I

If that happens to you 2nd and the slip up is mortal, like if you commit adultery and don’t repent of it,slander your neighbor, refuse to forgive a brother,participate in the abortion of the unborn child, divorce and remarry, you get the picture. You willl go to
Now it would be marvelous if you are a living saint with out the taint of temporal punishment still plaguing you (as in the Beatitude 'Only the pure in heart will see the face of God,)) then, when the last breath is taken. off you will go on the wings of an angel to heaven…otherwise if you hhave only been guilty of small stuff and still not purified down here you will have to stay in purgatory until you have been cleaned up completely cause only the pure in heart can see God. Get it? carlan

 

[2nd_Adam]

So do you believe that God makes this correct interpretation available?

I think we should look at the Scriptures in regards to why Jesus spoke in parables and to whom He gave proper interpertations. Let’s do something different, how about if you post the Scripture references to this dicussion about why God spoke in parables?

 

[bookgirl32]

I think we should look at the Scriptures in regards to why Jesus spoke in parables and to whom He gave proper interpertations. Let’s do something different, how about if you post the Scripture references to this dicussion about why God spoke in parables?

How about if you answer my question?

 

[jmcrae]

I think we should look at the Scriptures in regards to why Jesus spoke in parables and to whom He gave proper interpertations.

He spoke the parables to the people, and gave the interpretations to the Apostles. That means that the Apostles (Magisterium) had the authority to tell the ordinary people what the correct interpretation was. They were not free to disagree with the Apostles.

 

[2nd_Adam]

How about if you answer my question?

It really doesn’t matter what my answer is to your question. What matter is what God has revealed to His children.

The Purpose of the Parables

Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

“‘You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.
For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’

But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Mat 13

 

[2nd_Adam]

He spoke the parables to the people, and gave the interpretations to the Apostles. That means that the Apostles (Magisterium) had the authority to tell the ordinary people what the correct interpretation was. They were not free to disagree with the Apostles.

Good try, but God revealed Himself in the same way to others too. You might want to consider Lydia, the Gentiles who were appointed to eternal life, as well as Saul to start with.I like how you guys stretch the Scriptures to fit Catholic distinctives. We know Peter had to listen to the Apostle Paul in regards to Paul’s gospel.

Romans 2:16
on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

Romans 16:25

Doxology
Now to him who is able to strengthen you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery that was kept secret for long ages

 

[bookgirl32]

It really doesn’t matter what my answer is to your question. What matter is what God has revealed to His children.

The Purpose of the Parables

Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:

“‘You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.
For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’

But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Mat 13

What God has revealed to His children is part of my question. You stated that interpretations can be incorrect, and that an authoritative interpretation is both needed and exists. I asked you if you believed that God makes this authoritative interpretation available. It’s a yes or no answer. You can’t answer that?

 

[2nd_Adam]

What God has revealed to His children is part of my question. You stated that interpretations can be incorrect, and that an authoritative interpretation is both needed and exists. I asked you if you believed that God makes this authoritative interpretation available. It’s a yes or no answer. You can’t answer that?

I think we have drifted beyond the OP question of “What is the Gospel?”. Could you start a thread on authority?

 

[bookgirl32]

I think we have drifted beyond the OP question of “What is the Gospel?”. Could you start a thread on authority?

But this question isn’t about authority, it’s about if God makes an authoritative interpretation (that you agree exists) available. I don’t think this falls outside of the OP at all. I think for some reason you don’t want to answer my question.

 

[clmowry]

He spoke the parables to the people, and gave the interpretations to the Apostles. That means that the Apostles (Magisterium) had the authority to tell the ordinary people what the correct interpretation was. They were not free to disagree with the Apostles.

Seems like an excellent way to lead folks to follow up His disciples doesn’t it.

Chuck

 

[jmcrae]

Good try, but God revealed Himself in the same way to others too. You might want to consider Lydia, the Gentiles who were appointed to eternal life, as well as Saul to start with.I like how you guys stretch the Scriptures to fit Catholic distinctives. We know Peter had to listen to the Apostle Paul in regards to Paul’s gospel.

It was Jesus Christ’s Gospel, and it came first from St. Peter. It was St. Peter who gave St. Paul the authority to preach, in the first place, remember?

St. Paul was not telling St. Peter something he had never heard of before - rather, he was reminding him of the law that he himself had made binding on the whole Church. Also, he makes a big deal of the fact that he told St. Peter this, but if St. Peter was a follower of St. Paul, then what’s the big deal? Followers are supposed to do as they are told; there is nothing in particular to brag about when they do.

 

[Carlan]

Good try, but God revealed Himself in the same way to others too. You might want to consider Lydia, the Gentiles who were appointed to eternal life, as well as Saul to start with.I like how you guys stretch the Scriptures to fit Catholic distinctives. We know Peter had to listen to the Apostle Paul in regards to Paul’s gospel.

oops 2nd, It’s all bout Jesus, not Paul here, Carlan

 

[Philthy]

Please give me the post number and I will try to address it.

Posts 170, 171, and 172

Here are several of the exchanges that raised questions as to your gospel:
2nd Adam:

I think we will both agree that God will make his chosen ones grow in personal righteousness through the Spirit.

Philthy:

I dont agree with this. Humans “make” robots do things. Oppressors “make” their captives do things. God doesnt “make” us grow in holiness - he offers us the gift of growing in holiness. It requires our acceptance of the gift and persevering in faith, hope and love.

2nd Adam:

However, our growth of being made righteous is never the basis of our standing before God. We have peace with God and eternally adopted in the family of God on the basis of a perfect righteousness of another (Jesus Christ).

Philthy:

Now Im a little confused by your gospel. Are you saying everyone is saved since our standing before God was established by Christ? That would be a logical conclusion of your claim that John 3:16 is the gospel in a “nutshell” since that verse says that God loves “the world”, right? John 16 seems to include everyone in the world without exception as being loved by God - so loved, that He sent his son for them. So if Christ was sent for all, and God promises - as you say - to “finish the work he began” on their behalf (ie their redemption by His Son), then everyone must be assured of salvation. Perhaps Im missing something that you would like to clarify in your version of the Gospel.

 

[2nd_Adam]

2nd Adam;5920778:

Good try, but God revealed Himself in the same way to others too. You might want to consider Lydia, the Gentiles who were appointed to eternal life, as well as Saul to start with.I like how you guys stretch the Scriptures to fit Catholic distinctives. We know Peter had to listen to the Apostle Paul in regards to Paul’s gospel.

oops 2nd, It’s all bout Jesus, not Paul here, Carlan

Sure, Paul’s gospel was all about Christ and Him crucified.

 

[bookgirl32]

You stated that interpretations can be incorrect, and that an authoritative interpretation is both needed and exists. I asked you if you believed that God makes this authoritative interpretation available. It’s a yes or no answer. You can’t answer that?

2nd Adam,

 

[guanophore]

So, what is the gospel in your view? If we must be made perfect and holy, and love as God loves to enter Heaven… then I really don’t see this to be good news at all. The gospel is about what God has done for us, the ungodly and the wicked.

I am confused why you would not see this as “good news”.

It seems to me that the prospect of being fully, finally and completely delivered from sin, and our sin nature, to be able to love as God loves, to see Him as He really is!

The two are not separated. God has delivered the ungodly and the wicked, and is making our hearts of stone into a heart of flesh. God does not just declare us clean, then stop, he goes on to make us actually clean - fit vessels for worship and service. How is this not good news?

 

[2nd_Adam]

What God has revealed to His children is part of my question. You stated that interpretations can be incorrect, and that an authoritative interpretation is both needed and exists. I asked you if you believed that God makes this authoritative interpretation available. It’s a yes or no answer. You can’t answer that?

Yes, God the Holy Spirit illuminates the Scripture to us as individuals as well as corporately (Ephesians 4). I think you will find this answer from both Catholics and Protestants alike.