What is the 'great apostasy' claimed by Mormons?

[Marie5890]

I doubt your family had that kind of corruption. But yes. It would be given to others. And it was. Hence the LDS Church

" I’ve seen it happen in my own family’s industry."

is what I said…

The LDS stance is that the church that Christ founded itself was taken from the earth. IE the organization was taken.

That is where your analogy fails

 

[Marie5890]

The latter-day-Saint movement is an invention not a restoration. An invention of Joseph Smith.

One can tell by reading the BoM alone. It reads, even in it’s beginning books, like a Christian book.

There is no sense that Lehi, his family, and the ensuing generations prior to Christ’s arrival in the flesh were Jewish.

 

[TexanKnight]

" I’ve seen it happen in my own family’s industry."

is what I said…

The LDS stance is that the church that Christ founded itself was taken from the earth. IE the organization was taken.

That is where your analogy fails

No. The analogy is exact. It works. There is no way that a God who withdraws when we sin would not withdraw with all that went on that led to the Reformation. You can’t change God to suit you.

But thank you sincerely for discussing the hypothetical. No one else had that courage

 

[RebeccaJ]

For Mormons we are the unforgiven. I pity that view, and the implication for any sinner, I really do.

But God proves his love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. --Romans 5:8

 

[Son_of_Niall]

No. The analogy is exact. It works. There is no way that a God who withdraws when we sin would not withdraw with all that went on that led to the Reformation. You can’t change God to suit you.

But thank you sincerely for discussing the hypothetical. No one else had that courage

After reading that I can understand why you now have ‘banned’ under your name.

I truly pity a world-view such as yours. A world of no mercy, in which God has no control.
You have been a wonderful “anti-evangelist” for Mormonism.
Seriously, if I were a Mormon I would beg you to stop representing me.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Question answered.
Thread closed

 

[Stephen168]

No. The analogy is exact. It works.

Well, no it doesn’t

The two problems I had with his little analogy is:

1. The Holy Spirit is missing
2. Mormonism is not able to prove there ever was an ancient Mormon Church to go into apostasy and then restore.

So the Mormon “corporation” did not exist until Joseph Smith invented it.

The Christian “corporation” was never left with just people in charge. The Holy Spirit, God himself, has been in charge for 2000 years as Christ promised.

Then, on studying the Scriptures, I realized that for the LDS Church to be true, God had to be a liar, weak and cruel. And I could not accept that.

Yes, that is the conclusion that reason would lead you to.

But Joseph Smith claimed to have restored the ancient Christian Church

If it is a restoration, please show where there is in the New Testament:

1. 15 Apostles
2. Polygamy
3. Leaders who told people to take vengeance and form armies
4. Prophets who tell their followers that God told them to build the prophet a house
5. Bread and water used at the Eucharist
6. Stakes
7. Wards
8. Stake Presidents
9. Elder’s Quorums
10. Relief Society
11. Blood Oaths like the ones in your temples

Not only the New Testament but any of the ancient Christian writings. I think you missed one other invention of Joseph Smith.

Bear in mind, that Mormons do not believe in an Eternal God. The LDS God is simply a a being that was once a sinful man.

Yes, that’s the one. If it was a restoration, Mormons would have to show us where this teaching is in the New Testament or any ancient writing, too

But because they cannot rationally defend Mormonism, they must attack the Catholic Church with talk of nebulous corruption, philosophy, and other bogeymen.

 

[lax16]

No. The analogy is exact. It works. There is no way that a God who withdraws when we sin would not withdraw with all that went on that led to the Reformation. You can’t change God to suit you.

But thank you sincerely for discussing the hypothetical. No one else had that courage

I know you are unable to respond, but I wanted to reply to your post.

The Bible, which you are taking literally when quoting the story of Noah and the flood, tells us that God would not destroy the earth until the second coming.

“And as in the days of Noah, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noah entered into the ark, and they knew not till the flood came, and took them all away; so also shall the coming of the Son of man be” (Matthew 24:37-39).

“Knowing this first, that in the last days there shall come deceitful scoffers, walking after their own lusts, saying: Where is his promise or his coming? For since the time that the fathers slept, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they are wilfully ignorant of, that the heavens were before, and the earth out of water, and through water consisting by the word of God. Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished.** But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition** of ungodly men” (II Peter 3:3-7).

 

[adamhovey1988]

One can tell by reading the BoM alone. It reads, even in it’s beginning books, like a Christian book.

There is no sense that Lehi, his family, and the ensuing generations prior to Christ’s arrival in the flesh were Jewish.

I don’t mean to be disrespectful but I have actually read the Book of Mormon I read it when I was young, and even at a young age it appeared to me to read as fiction

 

[eddie_too]

so, our Loving Lord abandoned His faithful followers for approximately 1,500 years. that would not appear to be the same Loving Lord who went freely to His Passion and Crucfixion out of love for us.

imagine Jesus saying, “i love you so much, but if you screw up i will abandon you and your children for 1,500 years.” or " i love you so much but if you screw up the Holy Spirit will leave you orphaned."

i would have trouble believing in a guy like that, although that is the kind of guy in whom the mormons put their trust.

 

[Marie5890]

so, our Loving Lord abandoned His faithful followers for approximately 1,500 years. that would not appear to be the same Loving Lord who went freely to His Passion and Crucfixion out of love for us.

imagine Jesus saying, “i love you so much, but if you screw up i will abandon you and your children for 1,500 years.” or " i love you so much but if you screw up the Holy Spirit will leave you orphaned."

i would have trouble believing in a guy like that, although that is the kind of guy in whom the mormons put their trust.

Great insight.

Why wait 1500 years? If one really takes the time and seriously meditates on the merits of a so-called apostasy in the light of the great love and mercy of Christ, it comes across as a bunch of sand.

 

[Marie5890]

I don’t mean to be disrespectful but I have actually read the Book of Mormon I read it when I was young, and even at a young age it appeared to me to read as fiction

Adam I do hear what you are saying.
My point was more to it doesn’t read as if Lehi and his family were Hebrews at all. There is no sense of that.

It’s like they were Christian from the get go. IE those many centuries prior to Christ even having come in the flesh