What is the History of Your Church?

[Alex_Di_Matteo]

No of course not. I know you believe that though.
Besides, a Catholic did not witness to me. If I had waited around for them, and actually a Catholic has still never actually shared their faith in person, I would now be dead. I really did not have much longer to stick around in my old life style-the effects of which I suffer to this day.
To their credit, the Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons did try. I did not listen to them or believe it but they did try. Actually…in “real life”, the only people that have really shared their faith were those three groups (the third being the independent church I belong to now). Since I have been a Christian, I do not think anyone else has tried in person! I just thought of that…

 

[Alex_Di_Matteo]

I sympathize with you my brother. I share your experience. The problem is that in leaving the church or refusing to look at its claims you are discarding the baby with the bathwater.
I have been there and done that. Praise God for the church that brought you to Christ. They are to be, and will be commended by the Lord for your salvation. The problem however is that truth is truth whether it is shared or not. The Catholics that ignored you when you were out of the fold will be held accountable. Unfortunately, there is an awful lot you are missing in the nondenominational church. All the truths of the Catholic Church. It took me twenty five years in the fundamentalist church to see that much I learned was true but there was a lot that was not. Bigoted people who are saved witness a faulty testimony. Not only do you get Jesus, but you get all their offenses and because you are converted as a result of their witness you swallow everything they say without checking things out for yourself. Your church may be a wonderful church, I do not doubt that. I know that you are not getting all the truth. I am a former Assemblies of God Pastor. Love the church, but too much anti-Catholicism that blinds people to real truth in the Catholic Church. I need to be honest, when I first experienced conversion I hated the Catholic Church. I was Catholic for 19 years but never had a relationship like I have with Christ now.
Until I got rid of the animosity against Catholics I was unable to see all that I had rejected
was really not at all bad. Don’t be blinded by a bad experience. Some catholics hurt you, that does not nullify the Truth of the Church they are a part of. I pray that you open your heart to the church, not to leave the one you are in, but to see what in fact you are not getting from you are. Contact me, I would love to share more, but I don’t type fast enough.
607 279 7476. The Lord Jesus give you His Peace.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

I don’t want to sound uncharitable, but these are Catholic church claims, and Catholic interpretations of Church history. What proof do you have that its correct? Catholics criticize non Catholics saying they have no way of knowing that their interpretation of the Bible is correct. Catholics have to put faith in what the church tells them, with no way of evaluating if it is correct or not.

Wrong. Catholics can compare what they are taught to the beliefs of the early Christians. Consider reading the complete works of the Early Church Fathers available at newadvent.org or Four Witnesses: The Early Church in Her own Words by Rod Bennett, Ignatius Press, San Francisco, 2002.

“Where the bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic (universal) Church” Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Church at Smyrna, A.D. 107. Ignatius was a student of St. John the Apostle, who died c. A.D. 100.

I have studied plenty of church history. I had to take historical theology in grad school

Did you study Protestant scholar J.N.D. Kelley’s Early Christian Doctrine? If so, you know that the early Church was Catholic. Famous Anglican clergyman, Catholic convert, and about-to-be Saint John Henry Newman wrote: “And this one thing at least is certain . . . the Christianity of history is not Protestatism” Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine, Image, 1960, p. 34.

Where we agree:

1. Jesus founded only one church
2. The church gave us the Bible
3. Protestant Churches were founded-in an institutional sense-by men

We disagree

1. The Church (body of believers) = the institution of the Catholic Church

The Catholic Church can trace her history in an unbroken continuum back to Christ and the Apostles.

Are you a believer in the “universal church of all true believers” invented by the “Reformers”?

1. The Church that gave us that Bible was entirely the Catholic Church-I contend that the church at that time eventually evolved into the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, and later, Protestant Churches. When the Catholics and Orthodox split-they split from each other.

The Church that wrote the NT and formed the Bible was indeed the undivided Catholic Church that included those who later split and identified themselves as Orthodox. The Protestant “contribution” to the Bible has been to desecrate it.

1. We cannot be sure that the Orthodox added and Protestants took away from the Canon. Perhaps the Orthodox have it right or the Protestants. Protestants believe both added to the Canon.

Of course we can be sure. We can read the decrees of the Council of Rome that first declared the canon of Scriptures in A.D. 382, and the Councils that confirmed the same canon in 393, 397, 419, 1445, and 1545-63, and compare them to the Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant Bibles.

Catholics to me over exaggerate the conflicting nature that exists in Protestant Churches. Protestant churches do not claim to be infallible in those teachings. According to scholar Huston Smith, in his book the Worlds Religions, 85 percent of Christians belong to the 12 largest denominations in the world. 15 percent then must be small denominations, sects and the like.

These thousands of conflicting and competing denominations exist and all are based on the founding principle of Protestantism invented by Martin Luther: Sola Scriptura.

This shows a timeline that shows the origin of different movements and institutions within Christanity. It also shows the number of adherents of each group. On a large scale, we see groups like Methodist and Lutheran, and other groups like Pentecostal, while at 150 million, has several organization bodies. These bodies may have minor differents related to church polity, worship and the like, they are all distinctly Pentecostal, agreeing far more than they disagree.simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis…ber_of_members

A more thorough study is the World Christian Encyclopedia, edited by David Barrett. I have the 2001 edition in 2 volumes. There is a 2006 edition. It’s published, I think, every 5 years.

Even Catholicism as divisions within it. Division in Catholicism is centered or rites and orders. They all submit to the authority of the Pope, yet there a differences that may be based on culture and local customs. I give Catholicism the benefit of the doubt, but it seems to me that Catholics do not want to do the same with Protestants, even when many Protestant groups share more in common than disagree.

gcatholic.com/dioceses/rites.htm

Thanks for the link. But a “rite” or an “order” does not indicate a division within Catholicism.
All Catholic rites and orders are under the umbrella of the Successor of Peter – united in one faith, expressed in many languages and through a rich tapestry of cultures.

Protestant denominations have de-nominated (broken away and given themselves a new name) to indicate that their beliefs are different from every other denomination. Christianity is a revealed religion. What did God reveal? One Church; one Leader; one Truth; one Bible. Denominations are a scandal. Jesus prayed that all His followers be one. The Reformers should have reformed the Church (which reformed herself), not wounded the Body of Christ by splintering it.

Peace be with you, Jim Dandy

 

[davec66]

if you believed all of the teachings of the Jesus and the Apostles, you would be in the Catholic Church

Wrong! The Catholic Church does not follow the teachings of Jesus or the Apostles. That is why I am not a Catholic. Also, who said the Catholic Church started in 33 AD? The Catholic Church, of course. I believe the Church I belong to was started in approx 33AD and it was lost to corruption, pagan practices ,idolatry, money, murder and power. It was rediscovered in the 19th Century as a part of the restoration movement in England and America.

 

[GKC]

Wrong! The Catholic Church does not follow the teachings of Jesus or the Apostles. That is why I am not a Catholic. Also, who said the Catholic Church started in 33 AD? The Catholic Church, of course. I believe the Church I belong to was started in approx 33AD and it was lost to corruption, pagan practices ,idolatry, money, murder and power. It was rediscovered in the 19th Century as a part of the restoration movement in England and America.

Could you expand a little on the England part, 19th century?

GKC

 

[cceerpp]

I had a girl in my class whose parents are with that Christian Missionary Alliance this year. I teach sixth grade. The minute mom got a wiff that I was Catholic, she was on me like white on rice all year. The girl’s dad is famous for “Catholics are not Christians” comments. He’s hardcore into “witnessing” at the mall and trying to convert everyone to his little cultish group. They’re a piece of work. There are indeed plenty of nutty evangelicals out there…the snake-handling, screaming, praise band yahoo variety.

But the Lutherans, of whom JonNC belongs, are closer to Catholicism than some in here know. Anglicans in some parts as well. Some of these born-again evangelical types will never embrace ecumenism. The LCMS Lutherans have far more in common with Catholics than some Catholic realize.

I happen to think Jon’s optimism and dreams of reunion and oneness are lovely. I think they should be our hope. But I think the reality within Orthodoxy is a stubborn anti-papalism and they’ve grown so far apart in so many ways. You’d have to overcome their distaste for Augustinian thinking, their views on purgatory and the pope and indulgences and their approach to church polity. And with Protestants there are far more gulfs to overcome. I don’t see it happening, sadly. But I hope Jon is right!

Hmm. Interesting.

I’ll love to kindly ask whether you’ve all WATCH my video on which this thread I started was based in the first place?
Catholic Fiction Special Edition: Are Catholics Christians?
A response to those who ask any of these questions:

• Are Catholics Christians?
• Are you a Christian or a Catholic?

youtube.com/watch?v=EsZUvOy6bk8

Courtesy of the Sts. Peter and Paul Catechism Ministry - Ghana. Website: amen.co.nr and facebook.com/cceerpp and gadelali.wordpress.com

 

[simspt]

Wrong! The Catholic Church does not follow the teachings of Jesus or the Apostles. That is why I am not a Catholic. Also, who said the Catholic Church started in 33 AD? The Catholic Church, of course. I believe the Church I belong to was started in approx 33AD and it was lost to corruption, pagan practices ,idolatry, money, murder and power. It was rediscovered in the 19th Century as a part of the restoration movement in England and America.

Yes all those things exist within every single area of human existence including your church. Imagine that. Why do u accept the NT canon as being authoritative or the Catholic Creeds if you think the CC was lost and not rediscovered until recently. When was it lost? The problem with restoration theories is that you cant logically justify accepting that canon and creeds as well as the development of the Trinity and two natures of Christ doctrines by the Church while simultaneously implying the church was already corrupt to the point of not following the testimony and teachings of the Apostles and Christ. How did the CC get it right on these issues while simultaneously “not following the teachings of the Apostles”? I am not claiming that because they got it right on some issues they must of got right on everything, obviously this doesnt have to follow logically (Even if one believes it) but to make such a sweeping claim as you do has serious contradictions in it if you do accept the NT canon as authoritative.

 

[SnakeMauler]

Armenian Apostolic, 301 AD or so.