What is the holy response in our marriage?

[catholic34]

I have been married for 24 years today.

Over the years my wife has been mentally dissengaged from the family. The kids consistent memory of her is that she is always impatient and never wants to do anything with them.

She hates housekeeping and seems mentally unable to do much more than grocery shopping and taxi service for the kids.

Religious education at home only happens if I schedule it. She is devout but has no initiative to teach the children and her behavior towards them has led to some of the older kids distancing from the Faith.

She says she wants her kids to think of her more than the parent who just tells them what to do and gets angry all the time but my attempts to get her to actually do things with the kids produce minimal temporary results at best. For example, we have a park just a few minutes from our house. We’ve lived here for many years and she thinks she may have taken kids to the park once in six years, even though they used to ask regularly. She also can’t seem to manage to set up play times with the kids’ friends unless I repeatedly remind her to.

She also says that she is fat and ugly and doesn’t want the kids to remember her that way but she won’t exercise, dresses in ways that aren’t at all flattering, and has had minimal consistency with healthy eating.

I have tried to talk to her about these problems over the years but we are basically at the same place we were nearly twenty years ago. She has started to spend more time with our youngest daughter so there may be hope there. She has also seen a counselor but last time she went, at my recommendation, she talked about her worries about the children losing the Faith instead of about her actual problems that are the source. When she came home and told me what the counselor had offered as advice, I could barely figure out what to say since she had avoided the whole point of the visit.

Unfortunately, I have taken my frustration with her out on the kids all these years. I have recently begun reconciling with the older kids and am trying to fix things as best I can. I just don’t know how to fix things with my wife.

I realized today that if we had started dating now, I would never have married her. I also don’t know the best way forward. I never suffered from depression until I was married but now am down pretty regularly as I realize my wife is basically a mediocre teenage housekeeper instead of a spouse.
I hate it when Mothers’ Day comes around because I almost end up crying in the card aisle trying to find a card that isn’t a lie about how great a mom she is.

I also see that pretty much everything that can be done to improve our family life is going to have to be my responsibility with her tagging along like one of the kids instead of as a helpmate.
I know my reactions aren’t saintly but I don’t know what I should do instead. I am basically looking down the road at the rest of our marriage being the only adult in the relationship and resenting my wife for her lack of assistance. I will never leave but my love for her has been intellectual only since I realized many years ago how horrible she was at being a mother.

 

[catholic34]

I should add that she is affectionate towards me and loves me (she has very little interest in sex so I’ve pretty much given up trying because I always feel like I’m imposing on her).

She seems to be oblivious to the home burning down around her even when she is repeatedly told. It’s almost as if she thinks hugging me and telling me how much she loves me will magically make all the problems go away.

 

[dollysro]

So sorry for all of you in this.
She sounds depressed but I am no medical expert. Little medical anything and no expert at all.
Prayers for all of you.

 

[Lou2U]

I agree, she sounds depressed. Would she go to a doctor? Perhaps you both need to go to counseling together, and then you can properly be honest and hold each other accountable. Does your wife know how you’re feeling? It might be time to sit down and have that conversation with her, and make sure she knows how serious this is. If she won’t hear you, then maybe you demonstrating how serious things are (for example, marriage counseling or perhaps even a trial separation) will make her sit up. She might be assuming she doesn’t have to change because you will always continue to accept her behaviour.

I’m really sorry you’re struggling because of all this. Please do make sure you have your own support - friends, family etc. Perhaps individual counseling would be helpful for you, especially as you’re feeling down a lot of the time. Take care of yourself, you deserve it.

 

[catholic34]

I’ll try to get her to go see someone who can help with clinical depression. The counselor she has seen occassionally has never suggested treatment, as far as I know.

I could never separate from her. It would devestate the kids even more to see us split up, even temporarily. They’ve already been traumatized by a favorite aunt and uncle divorcing.

 

[Viki63]

Your comments remind me a little of my parent’s marriage. My dad struggled, supported the family, did most of the housework – he exploded every Saturday and engaged us kids in washing walls, doing dishes, and so on.
She sounds depressed to me also. I highly recommend you both see a marriage counselor together. Maybe ask the counselor if making a chore list for her would help – put taking the kids to the park once a week on it, and also specific tasks like mopping the kitchen floor, doing the laundry, and so on. Maybe she needs that kind of thing to help her get motivated. Do the kids have chores to do?
You are to be commended for keeping your marriage together,
God bless.

 

[catholic34]

She does do the laundry, shopping, makes dinner, and the kids have regular chores.

I created a schedule for her with her (name removed by moderator)ut a couple of months ago and it sometimes works.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

Is it possible she doesn’t know any better?
Was her family of origin dysfunctional?
Does she have any friends?

 

[humilityseeker]

She does do the laundry, shopping, makes dinner, and the kids have regular chores.

I created a schedule for her with her (name removed by moderator)ut a couple of months ago and it sometimes works.

You need to talk to her about this and admit your own part in this to her. Examples being here ‘dresses that are not flattering’

but she won’t exercise, dresses in ways that aren’t at all flattering, and has had minimal consistency with healthy eating.

How often do you take the kids to the park, does it really matter?

Unfortunately, I have taken my frustration with her out on the kids all these years.

I just don’t know how to fix things with my wife.

Judgemental attitudes like ’ should do this or wont do that’ are quite destructive. Be the example. If you would like religious education at home, you engage in it with the kids yourself, lead by example. Dont just schedule it.

I realized many years ago how horrible she was at being a mother.

This attitude no doubt rubbed off.

You both need couple counselling together. All these attitudes should be worked through. She, no doubt , has a few similar regarding the marriage.

Are you going to attend counselling together as a couple?

 

[Mr_Richie]

It sounds like she’s experiencing depression and other internal personal issues and is maybe feeling uncomfortable seeking help. Sorry you and your family are going through this. I hope everything improves for you

 

[Throwawayaccount1]

Make her feel beautiful, love her.

 

[Irishmom2]

You both seem to be depressed. And some of the comments you have made about your wife might be a reason that she feels the way she does. Pretty sure she knows she disappoints you and that you are resentful toward her. That won’t make her want to try harder, it will make her give up.

I know that you think you are helping her by making schedules and such, but it could also make her feel like a failure to have you constantly reminding her of all the things she isn’t doing right.

It sounds to me like you need to accept her for who she is now and love her just the way she is until she decides for herself that she wants to bring about some changes in her life.

You should both get separate counseling for a while, and then consider marriage counseling.

 

[catholic34]

Accepting her for who she is now is how we ended up with kids who don’t want to have anything to do with her and wanted to get out of the house as fast as possible when they were old enough. For years I tried praising her for her efforts even when I knew I was basically just trying to make her feel good

For a long time I just put up with her lack of initiative and took on more responsibility myself. Whenever I did, she would find something else to quit doing. So, no. I’m not trying that route again.

Counseling will probably be best for both of us.

 

[Philomenasmum]

Firstly, Congratulations on your anniversary!

Secondly, as others have said, she sounds as she’s suffering from depression. I’ve gone through a couple of bad stints myself (my fiance at the time nearly left me) and I must say it took me a couple of sessions in therapy to admit my problems. I also went on medication, which helped a great deal.

Unfortunately, When you’re depressed, you really don’t feel like doing anything and in my case, I felt like a failure already and don’t see the point of trying in any aspect of my life. Whether that be social, physical or mental. I would suggest trying not to be too hard on her and let her know that you’ll support her though anything (that meant the world to me). Maybe try couples therapy? That way she may not feel alone and be more open with her feelings.

Good luck

 

[F_Marturana]

How many kids do you have?

How many are teens, young adults?

Do they have chores?

I think she’s depressed. Many of us have put on weight over the course of marriage and having children.

My mom had depression a great deal when I was young. We didn’t diagnose it back then.
She was overweight. Sometimes the house was messy. She cooked every night, occasionally my dad would bring home pizza.

My father always looked at her as if she was the most beautiful woman in the world.

Being a stay at home mother is lonely, often it’s tedious, same thing over and over.

We make vows to love for better or worse.

You said if you met her now you wouldn’t date her. Maybe she wouldn’t date you either?

One bit of advice my mother gave me was to envision my then fiancé, sick in bed, with bad breath and body odor. That marriage would be like that sometimes. Was that something I could handle?

I’ve been married 23 years.

My house right now, except for the kitchen somewhat and the living room looks like chaos.
“Can’t have anyone over syndrome”

I lost my mom this year, my sister has cancer, I have a number of things that make me sad and upset. I’ve got anxiety and sometimes depression.

At least I know my husband loves me, and still thinks I’m pretty. The other day he said to me that I still looked like when we were married. I shot back telling him he needed to get his glasses adjusted.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Accepting her for who she is now is how we ended up with kids who don’t want to have anything to do with her and wanted to get out of the house as fast as possible when they were old enough.

I’ll bet you a ham sandwich

Unfortunately, I have taken my frustration with her out on the kids all these years.

has at least equally resulted in kids wanting to fly the nest.

Experiencing this sort of turmoil, criticism, negativity, - - kids catch so much more than you think they do - - did not do anything to model the love of Christ and the beauty of our Faith to your kids.

You have time to change that.

Love your wife as Christ loved the Church, lay down your life for her. Stop tearing her down, get in there and demonstrate your love.

It’s almost as if she thinks hugging me and telling me how much she loves me will magically make all the problems go away.

Loving my spouse, sharing affection that was not sexual, is what got my husband and me 29 years of marriage (he passed away before we hit 30 years). I’m talking about BAD times. Loss of a child to miscarriage, devastating financial blows, major surgeries, major illnesses, simply not liking each other very much sometimes, two separations, it was always that love that brought us back.

She hates housekeeping and seems mentally unable to do much more than grocery shopping and taxi service for the kids.

Not everyone is good at housekeeping. It is not expensive to hire a housekeeping service to come in once every couple of weeks and do a deep clean on the house.

Dishes? Heck, that was my and my siblings’ job by the time we were 11ish. Laundry? Same, kids can do their own laundry. You can even have color coded towels (Jenny has blue, Sally has green, Johnny has grey, etc.) so they do those as well. Of course, mom and dad do their own laundry, and maybe there is a family folding party every Wednesday evening with pizza and a movie.

Make your home a place of peace and mercy, let your kids see you guys forgiving each other. Let them see you listen to the hard conversations without a big reaction, let them feel safe that they can raise questions or make mistakes and that you will love them anyway. Let them see YOU ask questions, and search together for the answers.

 

[F_Marturana]

Very good post.

 

[catholic34]

All the kids have chores and have since they were little. We all help fold laundry every evening after the rosary.

The kids haven’t seen me criticizing my wife because I was very careful not to in front of them and for many, many years, I just picked up the slack instead of saying anything at all.

What the kids have seen is that dad keeps the house organized with the kids’ help while mom does anything except that and almost never helps unless asked to do a specific task.

We are definitely going to work on her possible depression.

As I said at the start, I was looking for specific ways to act like a saint in this situation. I understand the various biblical suggestions people have given but I guess I’m a little dense about how to put those into daily practice. I’ve picked up the slack for years. I don’t think I have ever yelled at her. I’ve never told her she was worthless or ugly or anything like that. We pray regularly both as a couple and as a family.

I mostly need guidance in how to fix my own outlook and attitude if it turns out that there isn’t a solution to her possible depression. I’ve been to confession multiple times about my own attitude and know that regardless of how the situation improves / deteriorates, I need to work on my own behavior.

I appreciate the advice.

 

[TheLittleLady]

So, take your wife out on a date, make it a regular date night (at a minimum once every other week). This is not a time where you talk about how you are picking up the slack, how the kids are falling away, her perceived depression, instead talk about stuff.

Remember your story, do things you did when you were wooing your wife. Go dancing, go on long drives, read a book over the time between dates and discuss it (something about an interesting topic, nothing self helpish or overly spiritual), go to a museum.

Go ahead and schedule a cleaning service and do it because you love your wife, because you want her to enjoy more time. Encourage her hobbies, give her a Saturday off, encourage her to go to get coffee at a bookshop, to get a manicure, to go browse at a craft store, something that is just about her.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I agree with all the others, it sounds like your wife is depressed, or has some past trauma making it hard for her to function.

On the plus side, you mentioned she is devout, she is affectionate and loving towards you, she is spending more time with her youngest child. These are all good things. Don’t brush them aside.

I was also concerned about this:

She has also seen a counselor but last time she went, at my recommendation, she talked about her worries about the children losing the Faith instead of about her actual problems that are the source. When she came home and told me what the counselor had offered as advice, I could barely figure out what to say since she had avoided the whole point of the visit.

First, if your wife is seeing a counselor alone, it’s not up to you to micromanage what she talks about with the counselor.

Second, it really sounds to me like the both of you also need to see a counselor together.