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F_Marturana
Guest
Yes. This especially.
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catholic34
Guest
I had suggested she go see a counselor to discuss specifically depression. She had seen this counselor several times in the past but hadn’t for many months.
She told me what he had to say which didn’t make any sense based on the reason I had suggested she go in the first place.
It isn’t as if she is regularly seeing a counselor and I’m telling her what to talk about in each session.
She told me what he had to say which didn’t make any sense based on the reason I had suggested she go in the first place.
It isn’t as if she is regularly seeing a counselor and I’m telling her what to talk about in each session.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Depression is a medical diagnosis. Leave the diagnostistics to the medical professionals.
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catholic34
Guest
She told me she was depressed. I suggested talking to her counselor to see if he thought she should go seek medical help.
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Irishmom2
Guest
Just make an appointment with a medical doctor and let him take the diagnosis and treat from there. It doesn’t sound like the counselor is a good fit for your wife. And she might prefer to speak with a female counselor when she goes to one. You don’t need to ask what they discuss either. That is for couples counseling.
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catholic34
Guest
She chose the counselor and saw him intermittently for several years. I suggested she go back to talk about things she had already talked to me about.
This is really a tangent from what my question originally was.
This is really a tangent from what my question originally was.
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Irishmom2
Guest
It’s really not, your wife sounds depressed and it is affecting your marriage and your family.
But okay, i will bow out now.
But okay, i will bow out now.
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catholic34
Guest
What I meant is that the details about the counselor were tangential, not that she may have depression. I had already acknowledged that and getting more counseling several posts back.
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puer.dei
Guest
Speaking as someone who has struggled with depression, I can tell you that it’s almost certainly not a tangent. And the fact that her counselor has never suggested treatment is alarming to me.
I would have her evaluated by a medical professional who is experienced in diagnosing and treating depression, and take it from there. If it is depression, you’ll need to learn to stop blaming her, because it isn’t her fault.
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catholic34
Guest
See my followup clarification.
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StRita3
Guest
She sounds like a completely normal burned-out mother. Might be shy and has not a lot of friends or time to herself.
Are you a perfectionist?
Maybe you are burned out as well and are only seeing things from the darkest side.
It seems she lacks the Faith, joy peace in suffering. Also a bit of lack of faith on your part with plain exhaustion. Do you work a lot and have trouble fitting in solid family time? You do have to round up the troops as well. I think fathers feel like they can run off and work and come home to see some super mom engaged and commanding around.
I feel like she is burnt out and probably needs a spiritual retreat like a silent retreat or just have her lazy kids helping her out. Is there TV or any evil in the home blocking out charity? Do you try to forgive and pick up the pieces with your kids? Idleness is the devil’s workshop. Put them all to work in some way, knitting crafts whatever it takes. Please forgive me Im not trying to sound rude, just trying to help.
Are you a perfectionist?
Maybe you are burned out as well and are only seeing things from the darkest side.
It seems she lacks the Faith, joy peace in suffering. Also a bit of lack of faith on your part with plain exhaustion. Do you work a lot and have trouble fitting in solid family time? You do have to round up the troops as well. I think fathers feel like they can run off and work and come home to see some super mom engaged and commanding around.
I feel like she is burnt out and probably needs a spiritual retreat like a silent retreat or just have her lazy kids helping her out. Is there TV or any evil in the home blocking out charity? Do you try to forgive and pick up the pieces with your kids? Idleness is the devil’s workshop. Put them all to work in some way, knitting crafts whatever it takes. Please forgive me Im not trying to sound rude, just trying to help.
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Peeps
Guest
I agree with many others–this sounds like clinical depression.
Clincial Depression is a medical condition, not a “personality” condition, and often requires a dual treatment approach–cognitive (talk, activities) AND medication.
Although a good counselor can figure out that clinical depression is a possibility, they are NOT capable of providing adequate treatment for this condition. And although God can choose to work a miraculous cure, in most cases, prayer is not the answer to treating clinical depression. This is a PATHOLOGY, not a sin or a pattern of bad thinking or an attitude that can be changed with Positive Mental Attitude.
It needs to be diagnosed by a professional, usually a psychologist (Ph.D.), who will work on the cognitive therapy, and who will refer the patient to a psychiatrist (M.D.) for the meds (prescription).
Sometimes, in fact, OFTEN, it takes many months for the psychologist and the psychiatrist to work out which treatment, especially which med(s) are effective.
In the meantime, the patient suffers, and so does the family and friends. The meds can make a patient totally exhausted so that they sleep most of the day. OR…they can make the patient even more depressed and despondent, and suicide becomes a very real risk–sometimes patients are hospitalized for their protection.
Or the opposite can happen–the patient becomes euphoric and giddy.
All this is really hard on the family and they simply have to dig in and call up all their strengths to help their loved one through this hard time of trying to find the correct meds and treatment.
BUT…once the patient is on the proper meds, things get much better.
My husband has been through all this years ago, when our children were in school. He was deeply depressed, and it took a long time (I believe a little over a year) of trying different med regimens before the psychiatrist finally found the right med.
You see, the different meds have different actions on the body and brain, because DEPRESSION has different causes. Always, always keep in mind that clinical depression is a CLINICAL syndrome caused by some imbalance of chemicals in the body. It is NOT a “behavioral” flaw" or 'bad habits", etc. No matter how understanding and loving you are, you cannot make the depression lift.
And the patient will remain under the care of a psychiatrist/psychologist for the rest of their lives.
I hope all this is helpful. The biggest thing that I am seeing in your posts is an expectation that things should be “better” by now. I’m so sorry, but this is a long haul and a heavy cross to bear. Dig in deep, hunker down, and be prepared for a very hard year or two before things get better.
And keep in mind that your children would probably benefit from some counselling with the psychologist so that they understand what clinical depression is and that they are in no way responsible, and also, so that they are aware of the need to monitor their own psychological health, as depression can run in families.
Clincial Depression is a medical condition, not a “personality” condition, and often requires a dual treatment approach–cognitive (talk, activities) AND medication.
Although a good counselor can figure out that clinical depression is a possibility, they are NOT capable of providing adequate treatment for this condition. And although God can choose to work a miraculous cure, in most cases, prayer is not the answer to treating clinical depression. This is a PATHOLOGY, not a sin or a pattern of bad thinking or an attitude that can be changed with Positive Mental Attitude.
It needs to be diagnosed by a professional, usually a psychologist (Ph.D.), who will work on the cognitive therapy, and who will refer the patient to a psychiatrist (M.D.) for the meds (prescription).
Sometimes, in fact, OFTEN, it takes many months for the psychologist and the psychiatrist to work out which treatment, especially which med(s) are effective.
In the meantime, the patient suffers, and so does the family and friends. The meds can make a patient totally exhausted so that they sleep most of the day. OR…they can make the patient even more depressed and despondent, and suicide becomes a very real risk–sometimes patients are hospitalized for their protection.
Or the opposite can happen–the patient becomes euphoric and giddy.
All this is really hard on the family and they simply have to dig in and call up all their strengths to help their loved one through this hard time of trying to find the correct meds and treatment.
BUT…once the patient is on the proper meds, things get much better.
My husband has been through all this years ago, when our children were in school. He was deeply depressed, and it took a long time (I believe a little over a year) of trying different med regimens before the psychiatrist finally found the right med.
You see, the different meds have different actions on the body and brain, because DEPRESSION has different causes. Always, always keep in mind that clinical depression is a CLINICAL syndrome caused by some imbalance of chemicals in the body. It is NOT a “behavioral” flaw" or 'bad habits", etc. No matter how understanding and loving you are, you cannot make the depression lift.
And the patient will remain under the care of a psychiatrist/psychologist for the rest of their lives.
I hope all this is helpful. The biggest thing that I am seeing in your posts is an expectation that things should be “better” by now. I’m so sorry, but this is a long haul and a heavy cross to bear. Dig in deep, hunker down, and be prepared for a very hard year or two before things get better.
And keep in mind that your children would probably benefit from some counselling with the psychologist so that they understand what clinical depression is and that they are in no way responsible, and also, so that they are aware of the need to monitor their own psychological health, as depression can run in families.
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dollysro
Guest
This.
I give you credit for this. And I believe this is what you are looking for.
Confession is great. Keep going, to the same priest if possible.
Wonderful to hear you admit your own shortcomings, which we all have. It’s a great, and a big first step.
Something that has helped me, don’t know if it will work for you, has happened since the shutdowns and my husband and I are home together, all day, every day. I used to get super annoyed with every.little.thing. Like him breathing! Sorry, just kidding, it’s ok if he breathes
One day it dawned on me how annoying I can be. And oh can I! So when I feel the annoyances coming on, I stop, literally, stop in my tracks. I try to access what I may have done to bring on such behavior. And if that is not the case, I try to access what kind of reaction I would appreciate, rather than the one I am most likely to give.
Sometimes I say nothing. Sounds easy? Not for me!
I hope some of this makes sense and some helps. Again, prayers and more prayers for all of you
This isn’t totally ideal, but it’s also not nearly as tragic as you seem to be making it out to be.
Even if you’re not yelling at her or telling her she’s ugly or worthless, she can pick up on your attitude. You mentioned that you no longer love her emotionally. Even if you don’t say this to her, she most likely knows it’s how you feel. It will show through in your interactions with her no matter how kindly or calmly you act.
Well, maybe here’s a start:
OR…she just wants to tell you she loves you. :woman_shrugging:t2: The part where she thinks it will “magically make all the problems go away” is most likely your own projection of what her motives are for showing you affection.
Honestly, my house is always a mess. My husband and I are both guilty of letting laundry and dishes pile up. But there’s nothing either of us love more than hugging each other. We’re both fine with waking up to a messy kitchen as long as we’ve had a good night’s sleep in each other’s arms.
I have depression and OCD. I’ve had three different counselors and have yet to find one that is a good fit. It takes time to find one that is right for you and your own situation.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Exactly! A messy house is not an assurance of clinical depression. Neither is not wanting to take kids on a walk to the park.
Those things certainly can be a result of depression. I have depression and it’s definitely a factor in my housekeeping being less-than-ideal. However, it’s up to the professionals to make that diagnosis, not the OP or any of us random strangers on the internet.
My point was more so that a spouse failing to be as neat and tidy as one would prefer isn’t really a good reason to not love him/her anymore. It’s not ideal for the house to be a mess, but loving your spouse is more important. And expressions of affection from one’s spouse shouldn’t be met with the attitude that “well, he/she just thinks this is going to magically make our problems go away.” They are expressions of love that often hold a marriage together, as you pointed out earlier.
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Is it my husband who write that? (He will agree with me).
Many things are so similar…
Is your wife an housewife?
Obviousely, your wife is not well organized or very good at housekeeping, and probably didn’t know what to do with the olders kids, or have others things in mind who prevent her to care for their needs.
But I am a little hurt by how you describe her as bad mother, an incompetent housewife and a wife who doesn’t deserve affection.
Yes, at least a good point you don’t try to put her down, nor argue with her in front of the children.
Affection should not be so much conditional. I will reject your affection until you change and the house is clean and the spiritual and educative needs of the children met. If you are always dissatisfied with her, she will logically have never affection.
All women are not good as housekeeper. And sadly not women will be good with raising children when we go over the very basic. They can try to do the best but their success may be mitigated. Some just lack ideas, initiative. Some are more intellectual or spiritual and will have difficulties with the very practical part of a confine house life. They will try to escape mentaly in one way or another of their situation.
It your wife get enough sleep? Eat well? Exercice a little? Such as going to walk everyday? As she has a hooby or a self interest where her talents can be used? Or have a volunteer activity? A community Catholic life or deep spiritual life?
All this may be important for her well-being, and well functionating.
It is also possible that your wife has not a lot of physical strenght, get tired easily, don’t have a lot of autonomy and is more helpfull as a helpmate than a home and family manager. It’s possible that thoses traits are come from her education or her nature and where present before you marry her.
Many people suggests depression. I was thinking of that too. Depression may impact her functionning in her daily life. It’s probably easier to see a depression when someone is working. It may impact so negatively his work… But for a housewife nobody will been impacted other than the family! And be rampant for years and years…
Counselor (what do you mean by that? what diploma?) cannot make a disagnostic of depression. Neither a psychologist…
It has to be made by a physician, as it is a medical condition.
If your wife say to the counselor she may think she has a depression, he can only direct her to a physician but not approve or disapprove her.
Many things are so similar…
Is your wife an housewife?
Obviousely, your wife is not well organized or very good at housekeeping, and probably didn’t know what to do with the olders kids, or have others things in mind who prevent her to care for their needs.
But I am a little hurt by how you describe her as bad mother, an incompetent housewife and a wife who doesn’t deserve affection.
Yes, at least a good point you don’t try to put her down, nor argue with her in front of the children.
Affection should not be so much conditional. I will reject your affection until you change and the house is clean and the spiritual and educative needs of the children met. If you are always dissatisfied with her, she will logically have never affection.
All women are not good as housekeeper. And sadly not women will be good with raising children when we go over the very basic. They can try to do the best but their success may be mitigated. Some just lack ideas, initiative. Some are more intellectual or spiritual and will have difficulties with the very practical part of a confine house life. They will try to escape mentaly in one way or another of their situation.
It your wife get enough sleep? Eat well? Exercice a little? Such as going to walk everyday? As she has a hooby or a self interest where her talents can be used? Or have a volunteer activity? A community Catholic life or deep spiritual life?
All this may be important for her well-being, and well functionating.
It is also possible that your wife has not a lot of physical strenght, get tired easily, don’t have a lot of autonomy and is more helpfull as a helpmate than a home and family manager. It’s possible that thoses traits are come from her education or her nature and where present before you marry her.
Many people suggests depression. I was thinking of that too. Depression may impact her functionning in her daily life. It’s probably easier to see a depression when someone is working. It may impact so negatively his work… But for a housewife nobody will been impacted other than the family! And be rampant for years and years…
Counselor (what do you mean by that? what diploma?) cannot make a disagnostic of depression. Neither a psychologist…
It has to be made by a physician, as it is a medical condition.
If your wife say to the counselor she may think she has a depression, he can only direct her to a physician but not approve or disapprove her.
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Uselful things maybe
planning your week: but only together with your wife
Start getting to the park as a family when you are here. The more difficult is to go out of the house. Many logistic involves. After you can scedule it in your week schedule, mother+ child when you are not here.
Said that every 2 weekends for eg, friends are invited. Make a list together, your wife sent the invite, you help her for that and to clean and cook. If you want to invite, you will probably have to take the burden on your shoulders.
let’s enrolled the kids in any good catholic activity available. Prayers as a family all day. Coloring books on the gospel and gospel reading, commenting, etc all the sundays. paryers at bed time, meals. I hope wife will want to speak of her faith with the children. it’s not complicated, you need to push a little and involve ourself more if necessary.
planning your week: but only together with your wife
Start getting to the park as a family when you are here. The more difficult is to go out of the house. Many logistic involves. After you can scedule it in your week schedule, mother+ child when you are not here.
Said that every 2 weekends for eg, friends are invited. Make a list together, your wife sent the invite, you help her for that and to clean and cook. If you want to invite, you will probably have to take the burden on your shoulders.
let’s enrolled the kids in any good catholic activity available. Prayers as a family all day. Coloring books on the gospel and gospel reading, commenting, etc all the sundays. paryers at bed time, meals. I hope wife will want to speak of her faith with the children. it’s not complicated, you need to push a little and involve ourself more if necessary.
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