What is the most ancient rite close to Jesus Time?

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convertingtocatholic

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Id like information on other rites Which one is the oldest is it the Roman Catholic?

I am also interested by language I love latin but also I’m really interested in Greek Hebrew Arabic Syriac(that’s aramaic right?) Liturgies and traditions.
Latin
Aramaic
Koine Greek
Ancient Hebrew
German
Spanish
Italian
French
Portugese
Russian
Elvish
Arabic
Hindi
That is quite a list but Id love to know those languages.
 
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Liturgy develops, but it would not have originally been in Latin. I would probably say one of the Syriac rites.
 
umamibella said:
I will take a guess and say the Last Supper
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I think you’d be right. The ritual of the bread and the wine stretches all the way back to Melchizedek (Gen 14:18), and Jesus is said to be a priest after the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:17), so it would make sense for him to use Melchizedek’s ritual.
 
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I believe the OP is asking, which Catholic liturgy is the most ancient? Definitely debatable. Without looking, I’d say the Liturgy of St. James.
 
I would say that the Sacred Liturgy is not in Elvish, but it should be.
 
Those were other languages I wanted learn besides liturgal languages.
 
Italian is pretty easy to learn (at least to me). Many words have it’s root in latin, it is very melodic language.

Russian is also very easy but that’s because I am Slav.

Hindi seems useless to me unless I would considering to live in India and that will probably happen - never.

Aramaic is beautiful (as well as modern Hebrew)
but practically useless if you aren’t Bible scientist or theologian of specific area.

I speak couple of languages and I would love to learn sign language.
 
East Syriac Rite - Divine Liturgy of Ss. Addai and Mari is usually dated to 3rd century… is considered among the oldest. And is heavily influenced of Rabbinic Judaism.

This liturgy is employed in the Assyrian Church of the East and also with variations of Latinization in the Chaldean Catholic Church and the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church. The actual liturgy does not have the words of consecration but the Eastern Catholic variants add in the words of consecration.

East Syriac is a dialect of Aramaic. And the Syriac Bible is called the Peshitta.

As East Syriac reached India, it influenced the Indian language Malayalam as well. This is known as Suriyani Malayalam aka Karshoni. The Syro-Malabar Palai Eparchy recently started a Syriac College and they are very well versed in Karshoni and it’s history and developments.
 
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The other tradition within Syriac Christianity is the West Syriac Rite also called Antiochian liturgy. They are based in the Levant and claim to be descended from the Patriarch of Antioch/Church of Antioch. They employ the Liturgy of St James. The main churches in this family are in the Oriental Orthodox communion, such as the Syriac Orthodox and Malankara Orthodox churches. The Eastern Catholic variants include the Malankara Catholic, Syriac Catholic and Maronites.

They definitely share many connections with the Byzantine (EO) Church. During the Acacian schism, the Byzantines and West Syriac (+other Orientals) were in communion with each other. The original Liturgy of St James was in Syriac and it was translated to Greek. But then the Syriac version was lost. So then they had to translate it from Greek back to Syriac.

While the West Syriacs were in the Levant and in the Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Empire’s boundaries, the East Syriacs were further isolated away in Babylon and were in the Persian Empire’s territory. And in terms of politics, back in the days, the Roman and Persian empire were at war with each other. This situation isolated the East Syriacs from rest of Christianity.
 
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@convertingtocatholic, here is the full text of the three chapters in the Didache that describe the Eucharistic liturgy.

Didache, chaps. 9, 10, 14

9

1. And concerning the Eucharist, hold Eucharist thus:
2. First concerning the Cup, “We give thanks to thee, our Father, for the Holy Vine of David thy child, which thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child; to thee be glory for ever.”
3. And concerning the broken Bread: “We give thee thanks, our Father, for the life and knowledge which thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child. To thee be glory for ever.
4. As this broken bread was scattered upon the mountains, but was brought together and became one, so let thy Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth into thy kingdom, for thine is the glory and the power through Jesus Christ for ever.”
5. But let none eat or drink of your Eucharist except those who have been baptised in the Lord’s Name. For concerning this also did the Lord say, “Give not that which is holy to the dogs.”

10

1. But after you are satisfied with food, thus give thanks:
2. “We give thanks to thee, O Holy Father, for thy Holy Name which thou didst make to tabernacle in our hearts, and for the knowledge and faith and immortality which thou didst make known to us through Jesus thy Child. To thee be glory for ever.
3. Thou, Lord Almighty, didst create all things for thy Name’s sake, and didst give food and drink to men for their enjoyment, that they might give thanks to thee, but us hast thou blessed with spiritual food and drink and eternal light through thy Child.
4. Above all we give thanks to thee for that thou art mighty. To thee be glory for ever.
5. Remember, Lord, thy Church, to deliver it from all evil and to make it perfect in thy love, and gather it together in its holiness from the four winds to thy kingdom which thou hast prepared for it. For thine is the power and the glory for ever.
6. Let grace come and let this world pass away. Hosannah to the God of David. If any man be holy, let him come! if any man be not, let him repent: Maranatha (“Our Lord! Come!”), Amen.”
7. But suffer the prophets to hold Eucharist as they will.

14

1. On the Lord’s Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.
3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord, “In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king,” saith the Lord, “and my name is wonderful among the heathen.”
 
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The Syriac tradition is quite old, but I wonder if the Coptic tradition is older?? The “Sea of St.Mark” as I believe it is sometimes called.

Not sure if it’ the oldest, but it is definitely one of the most conservative - as I understand it, very little has changed since ‘day one’.

A few hymns used in the church today have what is called “pharionic(sp - ?) tradition” - they are hymns used in the temples of Egypt that have been “Christianized”. One that is used on Good Friday is called “Golgotha”, but the original hymn (before it was Christianized) was supposedly one of the ones used by the priests during the procession of burying a pharaoh.

Since you mentioned Elvish - couldn’t resist - here’s the beginning of the Gospel of John in ‘Neo-Quenya’ (from what I understand almost the whole Bible has been translated) -

RANTA 1

I yestasse enge i Quetta, ar i Quetta enge as Eru, ar i Quetta né Eru. 2 Sé enge i yestasse as Eru. 3 Ilqua né ontaina sénen, ar hequa sénen erya nat úme ontaina. Ya né ontaina 4 sénen coivie né, ar i coivie náne Atanion cala. 5 Ar i cala calta i morniesse, mal i mornie lá *orutúrie sa.

6 Oronte nér mentaina lo Eru; esserya né Yoháno. 7 Sé túle *vettien, i *vettumnes pa i cala, i savumner sénen ilye atani. 8 Lá anes cala sina, mal *vettumnes pa cala sina.

9 I nanwa cala, caltala ilye atanin, né túlala mir i mar. 10 Enges i mardesse, ar i mar né ontaina sénen, mal i mar ua sinte se. 11 Túles i véranna, mal véraryar uar camne se. 12 Mal illi i é se-camner, tien antanes hére náven hínali Eruo, an sámelte savie esseryasse; 13 ar anelte nóne, lá sercenen hya hrávenen hya nero şelmanen, mal Erunen.

14 Ar i Quetta ahyane mir hráve ar marne imíca me, ar cennelme alcarerya, taite alcar ya *ernóna yondo same ataryallo; ar anes quanta Erulisseo ar nanwiéno. 15 Yoháno *vettane pa se, é etyámes: “Nér sina ná i quén pa ye quenten: Ye túle ca ni ná sí opo ni, pan enges nó ni.” 16 An camnelme illi et quantieryallo, lisse or lisse. 17 An i Şanye náne antaina ter Móses, mal i lisse ar i nanwie túler ter Yésus Hristo. 18 Eru *úquen oi ecénie; i *ernóna Yondo ye ea i Ataro súmasse acárie se sinwa.
 
Medawlinno said:
The Syriac tradition is quite old, but I wonder if the Coptic tradition is older?? The “Sea of St.Mark” as I believe it is sometimes called.
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I believe the Alexandrian (Coptic) Rite employs a variant of the Liturgy of Saint Basil. I think they share some similarities with the Byzantines and the West Syriacs, to a certain degree.
 
The Didache certainly seems to be the earliest thing we have that could be called a liturgy. It is interesting to note both the similarities and the important differences with today’s liturgy.
 
One thing I noticed in the Didache prayers is that all we’re directly to the Father through the Son. Are any Didache prayers directly to Christ?
 
I am not the OP, and it seems nice to explore ever-more ancient forms of liturgy, but that which is described by the Didache isn’t actually in active usage anymore.
 
Yes - St. Basil is one of three different ones that are used depending on the time of year.

Basil - regular
Gregory - Major Feast Days
Cyril - Great Lent
 
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