What is the Muslim's view of the Trinity?

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LtTony:
Quote:

Originally Posted by LtTony

Missy did not say Muslims call God/Allah “Father.” She said exactly the opposite in fact if you look at her quote. She put ‘Father’ in parenthesis to make that distinction.

Better understandings among different faiths is difficult enough without people mis-reading what our non-Catholic guests have posted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by concretecamper

Missy said “we worship the father” then said we don’t call him the father. which is it? If you don’t want people to mid quote…then be clear.

She was trying to be clear, but yes, she might have done better. She wrote (emphasis added):

We worship the father, but we don’t call it father we call Him God, as he begets none nor is he begotten.

Also we do worship the same God, but the obvious difference being the son of God. So we cannot worship a Prophet but we worship the ‘Father’ who we refer to as Allah or God or 99 others names as we find father not to be an appropriate name.

As I mentioned earlier she put “Father” parenthetically to make a distiction. It might have been better for her to say : " but we worship (what Christians call) the ‘Father’ who we refer to as Allah or God or 99 others names as we find (the name) of father to be an inappropriate name. "
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Not correct. We do not worship the same God. Muslims worship a perversion of God…you do not the God of Abraham.

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OK, let’s review.

God is called father until you are pressed on the issue and the admission is made that, well we really do not call him father.

Then, we worship the same God until you are pressed on the issue and the admission is made that, no real quarrel there.

Speak truth…all the time!

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Muslims do not call God “Father.” I learned that through a little research some time ago. Missy never said they do. They object to the reference, basically because they think it gives the Almighty human characteristics. You – and basically only you – misunderstood Missy.

We were talking about titles of God in Islam and Christianity.

The question of “Do we worship the ‘same’ God?” is an entirely different subject, imo, posed many times on this forum. The question, imo, was not in play until you brought it up. I’m saying I tend to agree with you, although the Church says that we do. (see 841)
scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm
 
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LtTony:
Muslims do not call God “Father.” I learned that through a little research some time ago. Missy never said they do. They object to the reference, basically because they think it gives the Almighty human characteristics. You – and basically only you – misunderstood Missy.

We were talking about titles of God in Islam and Christianity.

The question of “Do we worship the ‘same’ God?” is an entirely different subject, imo, posed many times on this forum. The question, imo, was not in play until you brought it up. I’m saying I tend to agree with you, although the Church says that we do. (see 841)
scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm
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Read on my friend…

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

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concretecamper said:
Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator.
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I agree with that too.

I think Muslims have been deceived by a false prophet.

But they don’t call God “Father.”
 
MissyB786 said:
God loves me more than a father has for his daughter.
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Is this an Islamic belief? What does it means for God to love more than a father has for his daughter?
Prophet(PBUH): A mother cannot throw her child into the fire, the love Allah has for us is greater than a love a mother has for its child.
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How much greater is Allah’s love for us than a mother’s love for her child? I am not questioning you, I am just trying to learn some Islamic teaching in the process.
PS: I think Mothers love is greater, the pain of childbirth, carrying for 9 months,(no dad can do that) thats why in Islam we are told heaven is at our Mothers feet ie to honour them and respect them for all they have done for us.
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Good. This philosophy is good to teach about being filial and to honor our parents.
So in essence in Islam Allah’s love is greater than that of a mother, whilst in Christianity God’s love is that of a fathers
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God’s love is not that of a human father but we can get the idea when he use human father as an analogy. He is saying if our human father can love his child, feed him and will not harm him, then what more to say about God? If our human father who is imperfect can love his child, what more to say about God who is perfect and can love his child perfectly?

Probably, the key word here is ‘love’. What is our understanding of love? Christians’ understanding of the love of God is AGAPE. This love is unconditional and it is about giving for the good of the one he loves. This love is not about ‘I love you, if you love me’.
Mothers endure more pain 9months carrying child, body torn apart(without being to graphic) in childbirth, the rest of their life feeding you teaching you.
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Good but a human philosophy nevertheless. If we look at mothers, we can admit that there are many kinds of mothers. Some are good and some are bad. And indeed they ‘throw their child into the fire’ to quote you. Not only we see abortions but also babies dumping which are quite common.
Whilst a father is just a sperm donor, has to provide food and shelter.
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I would say this is a very simplistic assumption and philosophy too. I do not know much about Muslim marriage and parenting, but surely a father is more than just that. He and the wife are together in marriage and therefore have shared responsibility.
Just making a comparison.
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Noted. Not in Christianity though. Marriage is more than just about sperm donor and giving physical birth to children. It is a sacred union of two souls and lives are God’s gift that both parents have the responsible to cherish and love and to bring them up as how God wants them to be.
Is having a child(9 months plus) more painful than dying on the cross? Just to note, we don’t believe he died at the cross, because God wud never do that to his Prophet(PBUH), he ascended him to heaven.
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In answering that question, literally yes, I think, but I could be wrong because I am not a woman. In this concept, it is not so much about which suffering is greater but the fact that God, who can be everything and who is omnipotent, could humbled himself to become man and suffered and died on the cross. If one is God, that indeed could be really painful (from a human perspective).

Again we come back to the definition of the love of God. Why did God need to do that? In Christian’s belief it is because of his love (in order to save mankind). The love of God is about giving. ‘Nothing is greater than giving our lives for a friend’ (paraphrasing) and God did just that.
 
I am referring to MissyB post about mother having a sort of greater love for the child. Is this because in Islam that a man can have more than one wives? If it is for this reason, I can understand it quite well. Having some experience in marriage ministry, it is understandable when a mother has more time and devotion towards the child that it can translate that the mother’s love is greater. This would especially apply when a father does not have time for his children which more often in the care of the wife. A man with four wives, for example, can hardly have proper quality time as a father to his children. This usually has a negative effect because such children will grow up resenting a father’s figure and cannot understand a father’s love.

Even in Christianity, there are Christians who find it difficult to accept God as a Father who loves them because of bad childhood experience.
 
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MissyB786:
Do slaves not look after their Master property? So our Master has given us this right to eat from what he was provided on this earth.

Its the western definition of slave u r thinking of…

…Only God is the true Master of this, and as his Slave he has given me permission to tend to it and use from it what I require justly.
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and who says God doesn’t speak to people to clarify things. Take a look at today’s gospel…

Gospel Jn 15:9-17

Jesus said to his disciples:
“As the Father loves me, so I also love you.
Remain in my love.
If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love,
just as I have kept my Father’s commandments
and remain in his love.

“I have told you this so that my joy might be in you
and your joy might be complete.
This is my commandment: love one another as I love you.
No one has greater love than this,
to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
You are my friends if you do what I command you.
I no longer call you slaves,
because a slave does not know what his master is doing.
I have called you friends,
because I have told you everything I have heard from my Father.
It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you
and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain,
so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.
This I command you: love one another.â€

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Reuben_J said:
I am referring to MissyB post about mother having a sort of greater love for the child. Is this because in Islam that a man can have more than one wives? If it is for this reason, I can understand it quite well. Having some experience in marriage ministry, it is understandable when a mother has more time and devotion towards the child that it can translate that the mother’s love is greater. This would especially apply when a father does not have time for his children which more often in the care of the wife. A man with four wives, for example, can hardly have proper quality time as a father to his children. This usually has a negative effect because such children will grow up resenting a father’s figure and cannot understand a father’s love.

Even in Christianity, there are Christians who find it difficult to accept God as a Father who loves them because of bad childhood experience.
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Even the Prophet of the bible had multiple wives, so do you discriminate against them for doing so? There are people in single marraige that have 10+ children or polygamous marriage with same number of children, does that mean that times will not be equally shared, still same number of children. I think the discussion of polygamy is on another thread, you can probably find a discussion of it on Sunniforum.com as even some Muslims have asked questions.
 
MissyB786 said:
Even the Prophet of the bible had multiple wives, so do you discriminate against them for doing so?
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Missy, we are followers of Jesus Christ, who is completely sinless. How many wives did he have? Besides scripture tells us more than one wife can even lead to paganism (ie Solomon).

Keep in mind Jesus did teach about marriage and that was one man for one woman. Even his Apostles taught about the relationship of a man with his wife (singular) and how it relates to the Church (the Bride of Christ).

Besides: Moses’ law said, the king “shall not multiply horses to himself… Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold” (Deuteronomy 17:16-17).

Plus: 1 Kings 11:4-9

Mulitple wives can affect leadership

4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lord his God, as the heart of David his father had been. 5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. 6 So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the Lord; he did not follow the Lord completely, as David his father had done.

7 On a hill east of Jerusalem, Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the detestable god of Moab, and for Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. 8 He did the same for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and offered sacrifices to their gods.

9** The Lord became angry with Solomon** because his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice.

Or read:

Ephesians 5:23, 1 Timothy 2:11-15, Ephesians 5:22, 1 Timothy 3:1-16

All state (Im just summarizing) how the Husband should lead (one wife and the household).

Lastly even from Genesis God created one woman for one man see Genesis; 2:21-25- That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his** wife**, and they become one flesh.

MJ
 
MissyB786 said:
Even the Prophet of the bible had multiple wives, so do you discriminate against them for doing so? There are people in single marraige that have 10+ children or polygamous marriage with same number of children, does that mean that times will not be equally shared, still same number of children. I think the discussion of polygamy is on another thread, you can probably find a discussion of it on Sunniforum.com as even some Muslims have asked questions.
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I believe you are responding to my post regarding fatherhood and absentee fathers (indirectly). Yes, that was our finding from people coming from dysfunctional family. Of course this does not mean people with one set of available parents do not have this problem. But when we minister to adults who have relationship problem with their fathers, it is often due to the fact that the fathers were not available and unfaithful to their wives. This always has a trickling effect to the children which as a result would see that their fathers unfairly treated their mothers. This often causes them to hate their fathers.

There are examples from people whom you called prophets who suffered the same kind of insufficiency in their adult lives. Abraham who had a wife and a mistress – his children were enemies against each other. King David who had more than one wife, his children rebelled against him and killed each other. Hardly a kind of family that you would say exemplary.
 
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