What is the name of that Church which was established in Rome by Sts. Peter & Paul which is currently headquartered at the Vatican?

[luckyfredsdad]

You have a cafeteria, pick and mix religion. “Obviously the Rock is Jesus”! There’s nothing obvious about it, the Holy fathers who interpret these scriptures thought it was PETER’S FAITH!! Only in the ghetto is it thought otherwise!
You are inventing a new religion and ruining the ancient one![/Q

**Yes that is it,PIC AND MIX!

All the discusions regarding the name of your Church ? All the double talk we’ve been receiving from various members!

At least one of you has the nerve to tell the truth!
ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH OF ALBANY.
OF PHOENIX.
PORTLAND.
ROCHESTER N.Y.
DALLAS!

 

[luckyfredsdad]

p.s. Do not attempt to malign the universal/Catholic Church luckyfred or I will report you and have you banned.

**Why should I malign the "universal/ Catholic Church? Especially when I am a member of it!
When did I malign the "universal/Catholic Church?

You, all of you, should realise that threats are no real alternative to knowledge and study!**

 

[MrS]

Why should I malign the "universal/ Catholic Church? Especially when I am a member of it!
When did I malign the "universal/Catholic Church?

You, all of you, should realise that threats are no real alternative to knowledge and study!

You are, at best, at most, a member of the Body of Christ. But by virtue of your decision to accept and follow different rules that come from a man in opposition to God’s plan… you are certainly NOT a Catholic.

.

 

[luckyfredsdad]

Quotes from some of the ECF concerning Peter being “The Rock”

Tertullian
“Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the Church would be built’ [Matt. 16:18] with the power of ‘loosing and binding in heaven and on earth’ [Matt. 16:19]?” (Demurrer Against the Heretics 22 [A.D. 200]).

**I notice you can only quote Tertullian from after he fell from grace?
However in the latter of the two quotes regarding Peter, the one you don’t quote, De Pudicita xxi ] Tertullian insists quite strongly that the privilige of Peter died wwith him and was not for transmission. In two other quotes [Adv Jitd & Adv Marcion. iv,13 Tertullion restricts the Rock to Christ!
**

Origin

“Look at [Peter], the great foundation of the Church, that most solid of rocks, upon whom Christ bult the Church [Matt. 16:18]. And what does out Lord say to him? ‘Oh you of little faith,’ he says, ‘why do you doubt?’ [Matt. 14:31]” (Homilies on Exodus 5:4 [A.D. 249]).

 

[Deconi]

**First of all, you are repeating the error you made earlier!
What Ambrose said eventually was,
’ for it was not said of Peter’s person, ( lit flesh,) but of his faith ( De Incarn. Doni. 33, 34.)
‘The Rock is Christ.’ [Expos in Luam. iv.97, 98
There is much more if you wish it?

Surely the the idea is to read as much of the fathers as you can,not just to cherry pick quotes!

Correct! But whilst reading, remember the faith of those ‘fathers’ of The Church and where ‘you’ stand from them! The one thing we share in common with them that you do not…is that they too submitted to the authority of the Pope!!

Context and premise is everything! Whilst they ‘differ’ in thought, as do we of our time, they submitted to the final decision of The Church, as declared by the reigning Bishop of Rome!..as do we!

Your views duplicates the multitude of ‘protestants’ who attempt to use a Catholic Book to discredit Her, or use the fathers of Her lineage to refute Her own teaching!

Incredible!

 

[MrS]

Correct! But whilst reading, remember the faith of those ‘fathers’ of The Church and where ‘you’ stand from them! The one thing we share in common with them that you do not…is that they too submitted to the authority of the Pope!!

Context and premise is everything! Whilst they ‘differ’ in thought, as do we of our time, they submitted to the final decision of The Church, as declared by the reigning Bishop of Rome!..as do we!

Your views duplicates the multitude of ‘protestants’ who attempt to use a Catholic Book to discredit Her, or use the fathers of Her lineage to refute Her own teaching!

Incredible!

It is incredible. But, sadly, just another example of the devil of confusion at work as he tries to break up the work of God.

There are so many well-meaning and God loving non-Catholics. And many non-Christians too, for that matter. But those attributes do not make them correct, or give them any of the Authority that is found according to God’s plan in the Catholic Church, under the guidance of those who succeed from the Apostles.

25-30,000 denominations… all with one thing in common… they are not the One True Church founded by Jesus Christ.

.

 

[luckyfredsdad]

Correct! But whilst reading, remember the faith of those ‘fathers’ of The Church and where ‘you’ stand from them! The one thing we share in common with them that you do not…is that they too submitted to the authority of the Pope!!/

**The ,‘authority,’ of the Bishop of Rome is never mentioned in either Scripture or in Tradition. Can you point me to it before the 5th, Cent?
Not from a papal source or a father of the middle ages! Baronius 0r Polidore Virgil!Please.? Nor your publishing house , whose name I forget!
How-and-ever two or three general Councils gave authority to the Bishop! Nice, because Rome was the Capitol of the Empire and Chalcedon for the same reason, at the same time they made New Rome up as well.Why we might ask? The 2nd General Council,[381] where the Pope wasn’t even represented forbad ‘all’, bishops to expend their authority on other sees than their own or interfere in the same sees.This Council also gave Old Rome’s priviliges to New Rome {Constantinople] because they were alike , capitals of the Empire. S.Cyprian certainly didn’t give way to the pope, he believed in the magisterium of the Bishops and believed that power was spread amongst them. .
**

 

[jmcrae]

**The Bishops of Africa, or the African Bishops as they are usually refered to, at the Council of Carthage, in a canon directly aimed at the pope anathematised anyone who took their complaints from North Africa to Rome and firmly but politely,told the current pope to stop interfering in their business. Augustine was a delegate and supported the canon!
**

On the contrary; here is the full text of the Council of Carthage:
The Council of Carthage:

It has been decided that nothing except the Canonical Scriptures should be read in the Church under the title of divine Scriptures. But the Canonical Scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Josue, Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings, Paralipomenon two books, Job, the Psalter of David, five books of Solomon, twelve books of the prophets, Isaias, Jeremias, Ezechiel, Daniel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras, two books of the Maccabees. Moreover, of the New Testament: Four books of the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles one book, thirteen Epistles of the Apostle Paul, one of the same to the Hebrews, two of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude, the Apocalypse of John. Thus it has been decided that the Church beyond the sea may be consulted regarding the confirmation of that canon; also that it be permitted to read the sufferings of the martyrs, when their anniversary days are celebrated.

The “church beyond the sea” is a reference to the Pope. As you can clearly see, they are not telling him to stay out of their business - they are sending their canon of Scripture to him for confirmation - to see if he agrees with it, before going ahead and using it. They also plan to ask him if it’s okay to read out the memoirs of the martyrs (the answer to that one was “no”).

 

[jmcrae]

**In the East all throughout the fourth cent, very few were in Communion with the Bishop of Rome, Firmilian, Athanasius, …
**

Athanasius?!!? Isn’t he famous for defending the Papacy, and joining with the Pope against the Arian heresy, and telling all of the other Bishops that they could not be Catholic, without being in full communion with the Pope?

I don’t know who Firmilian is, though.

 

[ricko]

First it was “ghetto” and now it’s “corn dollies”

You are building corn dollies, just to demolish them! Keep to the subject,please?

 

[Deconi]

**The Bishops of Africa, or the African Bishops as they are usually refered to, at the Council of Carthage, in a canon directly aimed at the pope anathematised anyone who took their complaints from North Africa to Rome and firmly but politely,told the current pope to stop interfering in their business. Augustine was a delegate and supported the canon!
**

In the East all throughout the fourth cent, very few were in Communion with the Bishop of Rome, Firmilian, Athanasius, the list is endless. Moving in and out didn’t do them any harm.

Several ended up saints!****

As I have already indicated your own Bishops professed that your Church were Protestant and dissenting Catholics. {C.SP>1791]

So please do not be too free with the adjectives! Embarrassing for you!

I thought you didn’t like “cherry picking” the Fathers of The Church!

Are there Mormon ‘saints’?! You do realise what a ‘saint’ is and how one is canonized? One needs Apostolic Succession to ‘make’ one.

Incredible and Embarrassing!

 

[luckyfredsdad]

On the contrary; here is the full text of the Council of Carthage:

The “church beyond the sea” is a reference to the Pope. As you can clearly see, they are not telling him to stay out of their business - they are sending their canon of Scripture to him for confirmation - to see if he agrees with it, before going ahead and using it. They also plan to ask him if it’s okay to read out the memoirs of the martyrs (the answer to that one was “no”).

It was the custom of the various church’s to send their news, or decisions to the Patriarchal sees for distribution to the rest of the area!
There is no question of,’ confirmation- to see if he agrees with it.'The major See was a post box and no more!
The pope, Zozimus, tried to interfere and introduced Canons from the much venerated Council of Nice! They were forgeries, which didn’t go down well with the Africans. May 25th, another Council was held 217 Bishops attended amongst them, S.S Augustine and Alypius all of whom refused to accept the forged documents and wrote to Constantinople or Antioch for legitimate copies.They let the matter stand while the new copies were sent from the east! A letter was sent to Rome amongst tthe signatories was Augustine which said in the plainest language, that they wouldn’t tolerate his conduct, or suffer such insolence again! But later, the same priest sinned again and the
issue was resurrected and again forgiven by Celestine, Pope of Old Rome. Thereon, the African fathers wrote to Celestine and told him that the canons were forgeries and he had transgressed the Councils by interfereing in another jurisdiction for which they could not find any authority, neither for the habit of sending legates.At the same time suggesting that he refrain in the future for fear the Church should suffer from pride and ambition!They finished by telling him in no uncertain words that they wouldn’t have Faustinos,{His legate,] and wanted no more of him! {" as Crompton used to say, Collapse of stout party". }

By the way, they held Councils at Carthage regularly, it wasn’t a one off situation.

 

[luckyfredsdad]

Athanasius?!!? Isn’t he famous for defending the Papacy, and joining with the Pope against the Arian heresy, and telling all of the other Bishops that they could not be Catholic, without being in full communion with the Pope? /

It is the same Athanasius who chronicled the apostacy of pope Liberius twice, as did Jerome.
It is the same Athansius whom was expelled from the commuion of the pope, who refused to receive Athanasius’s letters.

The same Liberius who said “I do not defend Athanasius…Having learned that you condemned him justly.I immediately agreed with your sentence.” {S.Hilar Frag,vi PL10 :689,690.] This was in a letter to the opponents of the Nice Creed!

I don’t know who Firmilian is, though.

That doesn’t surprise me!

 

[luckyfredsdad]

I thought you didn’t like “cherry picking” the Fathers of The Church!

Wouldn’t need to if you lot had any idea at all!

 

[Deconi]

Wouldn’t need to if you lot had any idea at all!

Ha ha…

O.K. Thanks! Thanks to you and ALL like minded non-Catholics for coming here and illuminating for us what our early Fathers were ACTUALLY saying!

Jingos! Dunno how we keep misinterpreting them for this past millenium, let alone since the beginning.

Imagine! They themselves didn’t know what they were saying or meant!

Thanks again.

'Bye now!

 

[luckyfredsdad]

Ha ha…
O.K. Thanks! Thanks to you and ALL like minded non-Catholics for coming here and illuminating for us what our early Fathers were ACTUALLY saying!

Trouble is,even yet you haven’t twigged it, it’s Revelation, Scripture and fathers! Poor you, not even one out of three!
never mind it will happen!

 

[MrS]

lucky, huh

lucky that very few will buy what you are selling… or trying to give away.

Sad

.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

.

What is the name of the church which was established in Rome by Sts. Peter and Paul?

Since there is no evidence that either St. Paul or St. Peter founded ANY church in the city of Rome, it could not have been called anything. Then or now. It’s just that simple.

.

 

[luckyfredsdad]

.

Since there is no evidence that either St. Paul or St. Peter founded ANY church in the city of Rome, it could not have been called anything. Then or now. It’s just that simple.

.

** It makes one wonder what happened in Palestine and Jerusalem?**

 

[jmcrae]

By the way, they held Councils at Carthage regularly, it wasn’t a one off situation.

If it wasn’t the Council of Carthage of 397, then give me a year, and/or a page number in Denzinger’s, for the one you are thinking of.

What in the world is the “Nice” Creed? Are you trying to say “Nicene”?