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HeWillProvide
Guest
A girl told me she had the gift of speaking in tongues. Isn’t this where you speak a language no one else knows? What is the point of this? Does someone decipher? Is this true??
What is the point of speaking in tongues? Why is this a gift?
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J_C
Guest
there are different points of view on this. According to the new testament, there are more than one manifstation of tongues. for instance at Pentecost foreigners were able to undrstand each other by divine miracle of tongues.
The most common form, though, and probably the one which your friend is speaking of, is a type of prayer language, which really is nothing more than gibberish, IMO. It has a value, in that the mind is released from having to form phrases, and this can be helpful especailly to people who object to formatted prayers.
however, i truly think that the higher form is formattted, prayers, such as Hail Mary, Our Father, etc. Anyone can just blurt out gibberish, and if you’ve ever heard anyone speak in their heavenly language, you will realize that it is just that. But this prayer language is not to be put on display. It is private, and should be kept so. Some people think it is a divine gift, but I seriously doubt that it is. The type of tongue in which prophesy is given in one language and properly interpreted by another hearing it, that would be supernatural, but not necessarily divine.
Do it is a complicated subject. There are various points of view. You might consider reading up on it.
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Syele
Guest
Rather than “blurting out Gibberish” the person praying in tounges has surrendered their mind, wants, and desires to God and are asking Him to speak for them. They are using Faith that God knows better than they do what needs to be said at that point in time.
Even if you don’t believe God accepts those prayers, why dismiss it as “blurting out Gibberish” when its obvious these people have faith in God and it? Who are we to say God can"t work in this way? Why should we judge their hearts?
I know some people who have had someone overhear their “gibberish” and were able to translate it.
Formatted prayers are nice if you have trouble articulating things to God. I know I had a time in my life that formatted prayers helped me spiritually very much.
I strongly disagree that there even is a “higher form” of prayer. Except maybe that sincere prayer is higher than insincere prayer!
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leslierx82
Guest
I believe you have misinterpreted the “blurting out Gibberish” as offensive or dismissive. When actually, it is what they are doing. Not to say their prayers aren’t accepted, but merely they are audible gibberish. Not a formatted language. But no less prayers. I don’t question that vocalizing, but not consciously forming words could be spiritually beneficial to some, as you said, but it doesn’t make it some amazing miracle. Just a different way to pray. It doesn’t mean that person is a prophet, just that they’re comfortable with a different way of praying.
I heard a story once of a boy who was jumping back-and-forth across a crack in the concrete sidewalk, as viewed from a rectory window by the parish priest. As the priest became curious, he quietly approached the young boy, and upon coming closer heard that the boy was speaking as he jumped from one side, over the fissure in the ground, and landed on the other. Then back across…One for you, God; one for me. One for you, God; one for me. Really, I don’t think God minds how we pray, just that we remember Him everyday and take a little time to say, “Here’s to you, God!”
I heard a story once of a boy who was jumping back-and-forth across a crack in the concrete sidewalk, as viewed from a rectory window by the parish priest. As the priest became curious, he quietly approached the young boy, and upon coming closer heard that the boy was speaking as he jumped from one side, over the fissure in the ground, and landed on the other. Then back across…One for you, God; one for me. One for you, God; one for me. Really, I don’t think God minds how we pray, just that we remember Him everyday and take a little time to say, “Here’s to you, God!”
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J_C
Guest
i did not mean it maybe the way it came across. I pretty sure I understand the ideas behind tongues, especially the “prayer language” as I have had a bit of experience there. I still pray in tonges at times, but I have come to find that, for me, a mantra type of prayer is better. The Hail Mary gathers my mind into a place that a tongues doesn’t. to me, the essence of prayer is in the thought not the lnaguge. The language is merely a human vehicle. I don’t believe God depends on the stuff that comes out of our mouths when it comes to communicating with him. What works best for one person may not work best for another.
so I certainly do not diminish those who pray in tonges, but I do not believe it is any sort of divine gift, such as the OP said her friend had said it was a “gift of tongues.” Remember according to Scripture there are different types of tongues. Some are indeed divine, but those are extremely rare, and probably so rare that few mondern people have ever experienced or observed them.
The most typical type of tongues is merely a “prayer language” that involves the release of the need to speak in a native language, such as English or Spanish, while the mind supposedly communes with God. I cannot judge others, but in my own experience my mind wanders off onto other things during those times. That is why I say the higher form is a formatted prayer, especially that of memorized Scripture, repeated over and over like a mantra. This gathers MY mind into thoughts of God and allows my mind to dwell thereupon. And when my mind wanders, the prayer tends to grab it back, while a tongue tends not to.
Again, though, I believe Scripture is clear on this, that this type of tongiue is for the edification of the individual, and should not be put on displya. When someone is speaking out in a tongue for all to hear, there is undoubtedly something unscriptural going on.
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someotherguy
Guest
The point of speaking in tongues was to be a sign to unbelievers.
First of all, the Bible doesn’t state clearly whether or not tongues are still in existence, but it very strongly implies that the gift of tongues is no longer in operation.
If your friend says that this is a language “no one else knows”, then this is a good sign that what she’s talking about isn’t Biblical.
In the Bible, the tongues spoken were always a real, Earthly language. That’s why, in the book of Acts, we’re told that the unbelievers each heard the disciples speak in their own, native language.
When practiced for the purpose of prophecy, yes, there must always be an interpreter.
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GraceDK
Guest
Hey, your name is HeWillProvide.
He has: He has given you a New Testament. Open it and start reading… read it all from Acts of the Apostles until the Revelation of John…
In there its written that there are different ways of speaking in tongues. Some of these tongues are understandable to others, some are understandable only to the Holy Spirit and no one else, including your self, will know what you are saying.
This is Biblical… I can give you passages. But you gotta open your own Bible…
At any rate… the use of tongues is that it serves as a sign for unbelievers (in Acts), it helps spead the Gospel to people of other languages (Acts) and it edifies you (Corinthians) when you pray alone… It edifies the Congregation (Corinthians) when you speak in tongues in the assembly followed by interpretation.
Therefore there are many reasons for this gift of the Holy Spirit. It comes from Him… Jesus alone baptises whom He will with this gift whenever He pleases… and when He is asked by a humble servant.
Its a big pity that the charismatic gifts are not very popular in the Catholic Church. Paul said: “I am happy that I speak more in tongues than any of you” … he also said: “Everyone should strive for the gift of preophesy”. …
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someotherguy
Guest
What verse is that?
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Syele
Guest
As I said, I know of many such prayer languages that were eventually interpreted. One was the words “Praise the Lord!” over and over in an obscure African language. Maybe it *sounds *like gibberish, but I hardly see how saying “praise the lord” over and over is Gibberish just cause its in a language not many people understand.
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GraceDK
Guest
Its written: (Paul says)
He that speaks in an unknown tongue edifies himself".( 1. Cor 14: 4)
and: “For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful…” (1. Cor 14:14)
Read the acts of the Apostles and 1. Corinthians to get much better understanding of this gift and its many good uses
“Covet to prophesy, and forbid no one to speak with tongues…” (1: Cor 14: 39)
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Mickey
Guest
“I thank God that I speak in strange tongues much more than any of you. But in Church worship I would rather speak five words that can be understood, in order to teach others, than speak thousands of words in strange tongues.” (1Cor 14: 18-19)
Let us focus on the greatest gift of all — Love!
Let us focus on the greatest gift of all — Love!
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GraceDK
Guest
Actually love can in many ways also be in action when the people of God accept the charismatic gifts humbly and start using them in their congregations and missionary work - just like Jesus commanded us to. Jesus himself was baptised in the Holy Spirit and a great part of His ministry consisted in speaking prophetically into peoples lives (think about the samaritan woman at the well) and healing people from illnesses. This took nothing away from the Love in His ministry… But He used it all, because that was the will of the Father.
Then the Church should do likewise.
I have seen many congregations where joy and zeal and fellowship was there very much because both love and the charismatic gifts were allowed to thrive in their midst. Its really important… also Paul says this: When you come together… one will have this gift… another that one… all serve to edify the Body… ETC.
But today we have become too rational… and maybe a bit too proud as well… We have the Sacraments so we say we dont need any other edification… but this teaching is man-made and unbiblical.
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Yerusalyim
Guest
There are, to my mind, three forms of the gift of tongues. The first being that displayed on Pentecost in which the foriegners understood the disciples to be speaking in their native languages. The second type Paul speaks of as being for the edification of the Church in which an interpreter is necessary. The third type Paul also speaks of in which “the Spirit intercedes for us with groans that words can not express” ROM 8:26. So don’t be too quick to dismiss tongues as “gibberish.”
po18guy
Well-known member
Well said. There is much misunderstanding of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. There is even fear of these gifts. 1 Corinthians 14 speaks rather well to this subject, and I would advise all who wonder about these gifts to read it. Controversy has arisen amongst Catholics regarding the direction of certain portions of the charismatic movement. There can be an overemphasis upon speaking in tongues.
It is clear that the Spirit gives these gifts according to His will. Thus, one may receive one, or several gifts. At confirmation, we received the Holy Spirit, but the gifts can remain unused. I was “counseled” by DW to attend a “Life in the Spirit” seminar at our parish. The conclusion was our priest imposing hands upon us and praying for the release of the gifts.
Once you make yourself available to the Lord for His use, absolutely amazing things begin to occur. The first is that you lose your fear of faith. I was a closet Catholic, but no more! I have received my calling and the change is simply astonishing.
I have seen miracles in prayer before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. I recognize the movement of the Holy Spirit much more easily. My faith is on fire and there is no looking back. The fear is gone and the love of Christ has captivated me. Some even ask if I’m a pastor :bigyikes: But, none of it is me. It’s all the Lord!
I ask everyone who loves Christ to consider using the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Christ’s peace.
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Steven_John
Guest
This is true wisdom, thanks be to God you see it.
In relation to talking in tongues, i have some caution.
At the catholic parish where i pray i was inspired to seek a prayer group that was never spoken of.
i found them, they were charismatics. i prayed with them frequently for some time.
they would pray in words i could not understand, they could not understand but i liked the people so went frequently.
the more comfortable they became with me the more they opened up.
they started to share some quite contradictory to the bible literature they were in to.
one of their prayer circle found out i was an IT consultant and revealed to me that satan and bill gates had appeared to him and told him that computers were the root of evil.
I am not suggesting any of you posters are in this position but offer that sharing what you dont understand should be something done with extreme caution maybe best not done at all.
In the world of the unseen there is darkness as well as light.
If people don’t understand who will shine light on the darkness?
It maybe in some cases darkness could be coming out, if the words are not understood its a hard statement to depute with certainty.
Jesus (PBWH) spoke in words that could be understood by his followers.
We all need to ask is Jesus (PBWH) the way?
How did he teach his followers to pray?
I offer this with no disrespect to you or the great apostle Paul, he knew the circumstances of those he shared with and we only have some insight of these.
“Pray it safe” if you trust in Jesus (PBWH)
the peace i have i offer to share with you, but be not compulsed to follow me.
i will be who i will be
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Mickey
Guest
Apostolic times were a unique period rich with extraordinary and supernatural phenomena for the history of mankind. The Lord God set out to make new creations through the saving grace of His Son and implemented into perfection through the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit endowed men and women with many gifts in order to bring this about. One of its gifts during New Testament times was Glossolalia. But even from New Testament times, it would seem Glossolalia began to phase out. St. Paul, it seems, indicates later in chapter 14 that Glossolalia should be minimized and understood preaching maximized. Justin Martyr, a prolific mid-century writer lists several kinds of gifts but does not mention Glossolalia. Chrysostom wrote numerous homilies on Books of the New Testament during the fourth century but does not appear to make mention of Glossolalia as noted in First Corinthians.
Many Christian writers, certainly the mystics, wrote about states of ecstasy during praise and worship, of seeing visions of God’s heavenly kingdom, of what they perceived eternal life with Christ to be, of how the Holy Spirit spoke to them and through them, to others. But theirs was always understood, intelligible, comprehensible communication. Perhaps they could not describe in earthly and material frames of reference what they saw and experienced, but they were conscious and fully aware of what was happening. They were not in some state of senselessness. Even the monks on Mount Athos who experience divine communication and have reached a plateau of holiness, do not speak in tongues. They speak in words that are intelligible and utter clear words in hymn and praise of God and His truth.
goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7112.asp
Many Christian writers, certainly the mystics, wrote about states of ecstasy during praise and worship, of seeing visions of God’s heavenly kingdom, of what they perceived eternal life with Christ to be, of how the Holy Spirit spoke to them and through them, to others. But theirs was always understood, intelligible, comprehensible communication. Perhaps they could not describe in earthly and material frames of reference what they saw and experienced, but they were conscious and fully aware of what was happening. They were not in some state of senselessness. Even the monks on Mount Athos who experience divine communication and have reached a plateau of holiness, do not speak in tongues. They speak in words that are intelligible and utter clear words in hymn and praise of God and His truth.
goarch.org/en/ourfaith/articles/article7112.asp
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J_C
Guest
no, I do have a clue, but i am admittedly not an expert.
I studied tongues for a few years, and was a pentecostal before comeing home to the Universal Church. I have associated with many pentecostals, and a few Catholic Charismatics. Agiain, though that does not make me expert, and I admit it, but I do think that it gives me claim to having a “clue.”
i thnk I used the wrong word, “gibberish” as this word has an unfortunatel connotation to many. I apologize if I offended by use of this word.
but my opinion remains. Tongues as we know it is a modern phenomenon. There is little of it throughout the centuries until it arrived on Azuza St at the dawn of the 20th century. It is an essentially protestant thing. Most Chatholic charismatics I have known are virtually indistinguishable from protestants, and some have been antagonistic to pastors and bishops. I belive this is why the charismatic “renewal” has rust on the undercarriage.
tongues, i think, is best handled very discretely. when people determine to turn it into the main focus of their religious life, then things can get distorted. If one like to pray in tonges (as I sometimes do) that is great, but it is to be kept private. It should lead to the Church, not away from it. It should not be made a stumbling block to others who are less inclined to the flashy and strange. It is not the main thing. I think that many who get involved in tongues are obsessed with it.
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East_Anglican
Guest
OK I’m sorry if i offended you. There is little of it mentioned through the centuries because it wasn’t an issue. Tounges are mentioned in the minor gifts and remembering that makes it no big deal.
You are absolutely right when you say when people determine to turn it into the main focus of their religious life, then things can get distorted. When some Penticostals say it’s evidence of salvation they are wrong because Jesus said “By their fruit you shall recognise them.” Also singing and worshipping in tounges is not flashy amog charismatics. It’s usually reverant and low key. Among Penticostals it often very noisy. When the evangelicals and Caharismatics joined it got strange . Among Evangelical Charismatics it is sometimes completely bizarre.
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J_C
Guest
not at all, I was the offensive one in the original reply. I did not take any insult whatever, from what you wrote.
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