What is the problem with magic if it is not evil magic?

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hplunaphaedra

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What is the problem with using magic to help and heal and guide people? Why do Catholics consider this wrong.

As I have asked before, please treat me with the same respect I have you, and please dont ask me to jump through hoops or just read old threads, just because Im not a Roman Catholic. Please.

I have my own forums about Wicca, and I respect non Wiccans that go there. I dont do that to them and I respectfully request you do not be rude and do it to me.
 
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It attempts to take powers that belong to God and make them our own, basically. It is a sin of pride. That, and the beings that offer this magic are demonic.

Catholicism does not use a utilitarian moral framework. Healing may be good, but the ends never justify evil means. Never. To Catholicism, there is no such thing as white magic. It’s all evil.
 
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Fauken said:
It attempts to take powers that belong to God and make them our own, basically. It is a sin of pride. That, and the beings that offer this magic are demonic.

Catholicism does not use a utilitarian moral framework. Healing may be good, but the ends never justify evil means. Never. To Catholicism, there is no such thing as white magic. It’s all evil.
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This. In essence wicca and other magic of all kinds is seen as being an attempt by humans to harness and ultimately control - be it the forces of nature, people’s fates or whatnot.

This is antithetical to Christianity which teaches that the only ‘control’ of such things is ultimately in the hands of God who created everything that exists. Even our prayer is (or is meant to be) aimed at aligning ourselves and our minds with His will, rather than controlling outcomes.
 
LilyM said:
This. In essence wicca and other magic of all kinds is seen as being an attempt by humans to harness and ultimately control - be it the forces of nature, people’s fates or whatnot.

This is antithetical to Christianity which teaches that the only ‘control’ of such things is ultimately in the hands of God who created everything that exists. Even our prayer is (or is meant to be) aimed at aligning ourselves and our minds with His will, rather than controlling outcomes.
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I would also add…

It’s a violation of the First commandment in that it is seeking power, guidance, healing, consolation, etc from a source other than God. It’s like saying, “Sorry, I’m not happy with the graces you gave me God. So, I’m just going to go get it from some other spirit or force in the universe.”
 
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hplunaphaedra said:
What is the problem with using magic to help and heal and guide people? Why do Catholics consider this wrong.

As I have asked before, please treat me with the same respect I have you, and please dont ask me to jump through hoops or just read old threads, just because Im not a Roman Catholic. Please.

I have my own forums about Wicca, and I respect non Wiccans that go there. I dont do that to them and I respectfully request you do not be rude and do it to me.
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Hi,

Yes this is potentially difficult question and was a major topic during the Christianizing of Europe.

It is because God is the source of goodness and not hidden or mysterious powers that are separate from God. When we pray for healing, we are assuming a docile and submissive role as we entrust our petitions to the mercy and wisdom of God: whatever the outcome may be, we know that it doesn’t happen unless God permits it to happen. As creatures we are obliged to submit to Christ in all things. We (the Church) are the bride and he is the groom and head.

In the case of trying to conjure a miracle, we usurp the role of God, and this has one of two outcomes. A) it is fictitious/superstitious, or B) it is demonic.

Relevant notes from the CCC:

Divination and magic
2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health- are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

Peace.
 
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Magic does not heal-God does. Magic does not help because it is delusional. The concept of magic my seemingly heal and help in the short run but it is not lasting.
 
In prayer we may petition God, asking for favors. We do not try to command God.

Magic tries to command supernatural power. God and God’s angels will not grant power to those attempting magic. That leaves only the Devil and his angels; that is, only demons.

Demons hate us. Their desire for us is great suffering in this life and Hel in the next. They will give us nothing good unless they think they can do us harm thereby.

Thus if you attempt magic, however good your intentions, the best you can realistically hope for is that nothing happens.
If you do get results, it will be a demon hoping to deceive and tempt you into doing evil in hopes of getting what you want.
Any benefit you get will be unreal, an illusion: or will come at great cost. More likely both.
 
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Zaccheus said:
In prayer we may petition God, asking for favors. We do not try to command God.

Magic tries to command supernatural power. God and God’s angels will not grant power to those attempting magic. That leaves only the Devil and his angels; that is, only demons.

Demons hate us. Their desire for us is great suffering in this life and Hel in the next. They will give us nothing good unless they think they can do us harm thereby.

Thus if you attempt magic, however good your intentions, the best you can realistically hope for is that nothing happens.
If you do get results, it will be a demon hoping to deceive and tempt you into doing evil in hopes of getting what you want.
Any benefit you get will be unreal, an illusion: or will come at great cost. More likely both.
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I couldn’t have said it better myself. On that note, I was watching an interview with Fr. George Aquaro (who is a priest and exorcist for the Antiochian Orthodox Church, but trained by Roman Catholic exorcists and demonologists - Adam Blai for one), and he stated something interesting concerning magic. He noted that all the books of magical practice (call them grimoires or book of shadows, etc) are all really diabolical traps. The sorcerer thinks they are the one commanding the spirits or demons to do their bidding, but in reality they are submitting to the rule or practice designed by the demons themselves. Much like we, as Christians, submit to the rules, ritual, prayers, and practices of the church Jesus Christ established, the world of the occult is in actuality a mockery or copying of what God established. Just as we enter into a relation with God through His church, so do the sorcerers enter deeper into a relationship with the spirits they invoke. They go along for some time until they end up so deep that they can’t get out. Before they know it, they end up serving the demons they once thought they commanded. Sorcery is in reality a highly enticing and devious trap designed to ensnare the unwary occult practitioner. Yes, the rituals may have come from someone named Gerald Gardner or from whomever passed it on to him (be it former members of Kibbo Kift or the Woodcraft movement, or an existing “coven”, or Aleister Crowley as some allege), somewhere the knowledge always originates from some hidden “otherworldly” source (aka. Demons)

This was such a simple explanation for something I have always wondered about. It’s very self evident, but I guess I needed to hear it articulated before it clicked. I always wondered why, particularly in ritual magic, there was always so much emphasis on certain ritualistic practices. When understood as stated above, it really makes sense. All the candles, magic circles, chants, dancing, etc are just designed to both dazzle the imagination (as the occult can appear very attractive) and ensnare the practitioner.
 
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hplunaphaedra said:
What is the problem with using magic to help and heal and guide people? Why do Catholics consider this wrong.

As I have asked before, please treat me with the same respect I have you, and please dont ask me to jump through hoops or just read old threads, just because Im not a Roman Catholic. Please.

I have my own forums about Wicca, and I respect non Wiccans that go there. I dont do that to them and I respectfully request you do not be rude and do it to me.
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Modern Catholic Dictionary:

MAGIC. The art of making use of the forces of nature by certain occult observances that have a religious appearance, or of courting the secret influences of the invisible world. Magic may be either natural or preternatural.

Natural magic is based on the theory that nature is full of many objects whose hidden, protective or curative, properties can satisfy practically every need or drive away a host of evils. The problem is to find these objects. With their uncritical mind and animistic prejudice, tribal worshipers easily turn from a valid exploitation of the physical forces of nature to a superstitious cult of the unknown, in the form of charms, philters, auguries, omens, the art of divination, and respect for scores of sacred prohibitions and taboos.

Preternatural magic is a kind of antireligion that has its own orders of worship, incantations, evocations, rites, fetishes, sacrifices, priests, and meeting places. It is black magic when the purpose is malevolent, and white magic when the intention is to obtain some benefit for oneself or another. The basis of preternatural magic is some form of animism, which believes that material objects or nonhuman living creatures possess preternatural powers that can be invoked or appeased by hidden or occult means. (Etym. Greek magikos, magician, magical, from magos, Magus, magician.)

The Church teaching:

CCC 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.
 
As ofher posters have mentioned:
Supernatural power comes from either God or satan.
Magic is either slight of hand (fake theatre magic) or channeling of demonic powers.

God often heals through us or others praying/ prayers to a saint/ attendance of a Vatican approved Catholic Charismaric Healing Service. Or God can heal you through your doctor’s medicine prescription/ you living a healthier lifestyle.

According to the Bible all forms of divination are occult. It is using satan to heal temporarily (with gravely dangerous side effects). Catholic Exorcists have mentioned that those who use magic (unknowingly go to satan/ demons) and there is a great cost such as demonic oppression, demonic infestation, curses, sicknesses and misfortune.

Further: in the Book of Revelation Jesus says: ‘Sorcerers, witches, occultists, diviners, all workers of magic, shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven, they shall be thrown into the fires of Hell with satan, the false prophet, and the beast, there to be tortured night and day for all eternity.’

God is the only true Healer.

Go to your doctor, live a healthier lifestyle, make a novena to a sainf such as Saint Padre Pio (whom God is still using as a healing intercessor), or go to a Vatican approved Catholic Charismatic Healing service (where the Holy Spirit often works healings).
 
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Catholic Exorcists have said, the Occult is real, and they have often had to exorcise those who spent years doing ‘occult magic.’

The Bible also says that those who use the occult commit adultery against God, by going to ‘other gods.’ St Paul says in the Bible: ‘Do you not know the falsw gods they serve are actually demons?’

Also: The Acts of the Apostles mentions a girl who used divination (prophecying other people’s futures) who kept pestering the apostles sarcastically until Peter commanded: ‘In the name of Jesus, I command you spirit of divination to leave her.’ At which point scripture points out that she was exorcised of the demon and lost her gift to foretell the future.

If the occult and ‘white magic’ were silly nonsense, why does it receive a condemnation of Hell from Jesus in the Book of Revelation?

‘And Jesus said: ‘Those who are witches, diviners, fortune tellers, sorcerers, occultists, shall not enter the Kingdom of Heaven but shall be thrown into the fires of Hell with Lucifer, the Beast, and the False Prophet, there to be tortured night and day for all eternity.’

If the occult and all forms of ‘white magic’ are not real then why are these condemned in the Catholic Catechism, mentioned by Catholic Exorcists as things which can cause demonic oppression/ possession, and mentioned by Jesus Himself in the Book of Revelation as being a sin reserved for Hell?
 
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Generally speaking, good intent does not mean good results. It is hazardous to consort with spirits you don’t understand, can’t control and whose honestly you have no way to gauge. It is like being a child who agrees to help a stranger find his lost puppy. Do supernatural spirits need your help and direction to accomplish good? Do you see how easy it would be for a malevolent spirit to mislead and hijack a soul with good intentions but who disregards warnings not to consort with spirits independently from their Heavenly Father?
 
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The Catholic Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church, of which Saint Pope John Paul said : ‘I put my Apostolic Authority (as Pope) on this work.’

States:

Divination and magic

2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future.48 Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear _that we owe to God alone._

2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it.

Furthermore: the Roman Catholic Church states that use of the occult/ divination/ magic: is grave matter that is a mortal sin if done deliberately, with full knowledge and full freedom.
Further to this: Catholic Exorcists have stated the most common root cause for someone needing Exorcism is that they were gravely involved in the occult.
 
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I just got done reading “ An Exorcist Tells His Story “
It’s by Gabriele Amorth -
( chief exorcist of Rome )

He says - thee worst thing to do -
is to go to another practitioner of magic -
to ward off - anything ! Or cure anything !

Let Jesus - do that -
Let prayer do that -
Let Holy water do that
Etc

Be careful hpluna -
Don’t - play with fire !
 
I’ve studied this for a long time. Magic and the occult are quite real. In its current New Age form, there is no mention of demons but of helpers, who also go by other names. It seems harmless or even good but the goal is to get the person involved deeper and deeper into something he or she may not get out of. Of all the groups I’ve looked at, all spring from a satanic source. A source of deception where people are told they can become god - a fake god. Or take power from satan, who the helpers serve.
 
edwest211 said:
I’ve studied this for a long time. Magic and the occult are quite real. In its current New Age form, there is no mention of demons but of helpers, who also go by other names. It seems harmless or even good but the goal is to get the person involved deeper and deeper into something he or she may not get out of. Of all the groups I’ve looked at, all spring from a satanic source. A source of deception where people are told they can become god - a fake god. Or take power from satan, who the helpers serve.
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Wiccans, for instance, do worship gods who are considered gods, not spirits subordinate to the One True God. Although this isn’t a religion with a central authority and a uniformly-defined theology, they are elevating spirits we know are not gods to the level of gods worthy of worship. They are deceived into believing they can gain the power when in fact they are putting themselves in a position of being dominated themselves, instead.

Just luring people of good faith into worshiping powers other than the One True God is to lure them into idolatry. To convince someone to pridefully believe they have powers they don’t have in order to lure them into worshiping powers set up in competition with God is itself an ensnarement of the soul. If they believe they are “doing good” but do so by believing they have some personal sway over the Divine is itself a serious habit of pride, a deadly sin.
 
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