What is the proper way to interact with a transvestite/ transgendered person?

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Thanks for all the replies thus far. I think I’m satisfied with how I handled the situation, considering that I do not know with certainty that this person is a transvestite/transsexual/transgender (or what the distinctions are between those anyway). Some think he is, others think she isn’t. I had to take her word for it – just because a woman may have some masculine features does not necessarily mean she’s really a man. In this situation I was content to shake hands, but another woman came up to me and kissed me on the cheek, and so did the person in question. I suppose if an obvious man came up to kiss me on the cheek I would think it strange (in this culture), and might feel uncomfortable, but would probably give him the benefit of the doubt that it was part of his culture and he only meant it as a sign of courtesy.

However, if the person in question (the possible trans-whatever) was to reveal that he is in fact a male, would I not be complicit in his lie or delusion by treating him as if he was a woman, using the female pronoun, etc.? If a person was to introduce himself as Pope Hank, wouldn’t it be wrong for me to refer to him as Pope or Your Holiness as he prefers, even if he is offended when you just refer to him as Hank?
 
Hello milimac
IWe should treat ALL our brothers & sisters with love & respect.Did God not command us so ?You can be polite respectful & so forth without having to use names or gender names i.e Hello there nice to meet you or Hello how are you? Instead of Mr/Miss/Mrs use the name they give you .That way you will cause no offence.If someone gives me their name as Tracy or Bert that is the persons name.
God bless you
 
milimac said:
Thanks for all the replies thus far. I think I’m satisfied with how I handled the situation, considering that I do not know with certainty that this person is a transvestite/transsexual/transgender (or what the distinctions are between those anyway). Some think he is, others think she isn’t. I had to take her word for it – just because a woman may have some masculine features does not necessarily mean she’s really a man. In this situation I was content to shake hands, but another woman came up to me and kissed me on the cheek, and so did the person in question. I suppose if an obvious man came up to kiss me on the cheek I would think it strange (in this culture), and might feel uncomfortable, but would probably give him the benefit of the doubt that it was part of his culture and he only meant it as a sign of courtesy.

However, if the person in question (the possible trans-whatever) was to reveal that he is in fact a male, would I not be complicit in his lie or delusion by treating him as if he was a woman, using the female pronoun, etc.? If a person was to introduce himself as Pope Hank, wouldn’t it be wrong for me to refer to him as Pope or Your Holiness as he prefers, even if he is offended when you just refer to him as Hank?
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Well, assuming you’re conversing in English, you probably won’t be obliged to use any sex-specific language unless your interlocutor insists on being referred to in the third person. And these days (more’s the pity, and that’s another topic), people generally call fresh acquaintances by their first name. Call the fellow by whatever name you’re given–if he IS a transsexual, you’re unlikely to know his birth name anyway, so I don’t know what else you’d have the option of calling him.
 
Being transsexual or transgendered aren’t the only options. There are also people who have chromosomal abnormalities that can make gender unclear, or plain old hermaphrodites. There are any number of odd occurrences that can affect a fetus sexual development in the womb. Since it would be impossible to know which category a person fell into, I think it would be best to treat them as they are presented.
 
milimac said:
However, if the person in question (the possible trans-whatever) was to reveal that he is in fact a male, would I not be complicit in his lie or delusion by treating him as if he was a woman, using the female pronoun, etc.? If a person was to introduce himself as Pope Hank, wouldn’t it be wrong for me to refer to him as Pope or Your Holiness as he prefers, even if he is offended when you just refer to him as Hank?
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I think I’d call a person by the name they request, whatever it might be. I’ve never had a person request to be called Supreme High Pooh-Bah, though, or Mr. Hideous. Some names would be emotionally difficult to use, because they mean something. I think I’d shorten the address to Mr. H if my friend would let me. I might find it disturbing to call him hideous on a regular basis. Friends often do negotiate with names. Other times they just accept the affection. I have a friend who has shortened my name to one I don’t really care for, but I have accepted that along with them, since they like to call me that, and it is a sign of affection, clearly.

Names like Bill or Sue are not going to cause this type of trouble. Just call whomever by whichever they request.

About pronouns, probably you wouldn’t use them anyway in the presence of Hank. They usually come up when talking to someone else. You need to decide for yourself in the situation you are in what you are communicating and why. Maintain truth, charity, and dignity. Use or avoid the pronouns as needed.
 
Pug said:
I think I’d call a person by the name they request, whatever it might be. I’ve never had a person request to be called Supreme High Pooh-Bah, though, or Mr. Hideous. Some names would be emotionally difficult to use, because they mean something. I think I’d shorten the address to Mr. H if my friend would let me. I might find it disturbing to call him hideous on a regular basis. Friends often do negotiate with names. Other times they just accept the affection. I have a friend who has shortened my name to one I don’t really care for, but I have accepted that along with them, since they like to call me that, and it is a sign of affection, clearly.

Names like Bill or Sue are not going to cause this type of trouble. Just call whomever by whichever they request.

About pronouns, probably you wouldn’t use them anyway in the presence of Hank. They usually come up when talking to someone else. You need to decide for yourself in the situation you are in what you are communicating and why. Maintain truth, charity, and dignity. Use or avoid the pronouns as needed.
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Pug, for your charitable response I am grateful. Further, as to the prior poster who obliquely referenced the Second Commandment, I do believe the answer is found here-
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s2c1a2.htm
 
Two pieces on homosexuality:

One is Causes of Homosexuality: A Christian Appraisal of the Data — recent scientific findings on the causes of homosexuality in the context of a Christian anthropology. After reviewing the major findings in the empirical literature, the discussion focuses on how such an anthropology can account for these findings without compromising the traditional Christian ethical teaching that homosexual acts are intrinsically immoral and the homosexual inclination is objectively disordered. Of particular importance here are notions of original sin, fallen nature, the sexual difference, and the virtue of chastity.

payingattentiontothesky.com/causes-of-homosexuality-a-christian-appraisal-of-the-data/

Second an essay sourced from Fr. Richard John Neuhaus, Kathleen Curran Sweeney, Robert P. George, M. Cathleen Kaveny and Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa.

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/07/07/%e2%80%9cis-it-really-me-they-spite-is-it-not-in-fact-themselves-to-their-own-confusion%e2%80%9d/

All of it very good stuff you should know where to go when you need to copy and paste it.

Regards

DJ
 
djeter said:
Two pieces on homosexuality:

One is Causes of Homosexuality: A Christian Appraisal of the Data — recent scientific findings on the causes of homosexuality in the context of a Christian anthropology. After reviewing the major findings in the empirical literature, the discussion focuses on how such an anthropology can account for these findings without compromising the traditional Christian ethical teaching that homosexual acts are intrinsically immoral and the homosexual inclination is objectively disordered. Of particular importance here are notions of original sin, fallen nature, the sexual difference, and the virtue of chastity.

payingattentiontothesky.com/causes-of-homosexuality-a-christian-appraisal-of-the-data/

Second an essay sourced from Fr. Richard John Neuhaus, Kathleen Curran Sweeney, Robert P. George, M. Cathleen Kaveny and Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa.

payingattentiontothesky.com/2009/07/07/%e2%80%9cis-it-really-me-they-spite-is-it-not-in-fact-themselves-to-their-own-confusion%e2%80%9d/

All of it very good stuff you should know where to go when you need to copy and paste it.

Regards

DJ
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While interesting reading, the relevance to the present thread seems lacking.
 
melissa1980 said:
While interesting reading, the relevance to the present thread seems lacking.
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How so? Short of being the transvestite’s shrink or physician, how is one to distinguish a gender disorder from what might be someone who is born with a physical deformity and is corrected through surgery, resulting in their changing gender. That is a relative rarity to gays submitting themselves to cosmetic surgeries and the like.

These disorders are not great sins by the way, as long as they do not involve others. Hence the links are helpful because they do address what a “disorder” is in the Church and the phrase “intrinsic evil” which too many people throw around without knowing.

Regards

dj
 
There is error in drawing the intersexual/transsexual dilemma into the milieu of homosexuality as the prior neither connotes nor denotes the latter and vice-versa. In that, it seemed your remark was off point. The readings demonstrated at length by Zoe Brain in other threads in this forum clarify well the markers of intersexual/transsexual realities and offer up distinctions which render the homosexuality label inapplicable. Taking your remarks as further clarified, to be helps recognizing disorder and intrinsic evil, I understand your point as a Church view perspective.

Thank you, dj, for your charity.
 
I treat her as a woman. It’s not going to hurt me.

I wouldn’t kiss her though. .
 
xixxvmcm85 said:
You know, I’ve never found a more quick way to become sickened by my fellow Catholics than to read a thread about transgendered people.

Thanks a lot folks! You’re making Jesus proud. :rolleyes:

To the OP. Treat her as a woman. For all you know she is a woman. You haven’t performed a karyotype to determine what her sex chromosomes are, you haven’t lifted up her skirt to see if she has a penis.

To all those completely ignorant of transsexualism, I suggest you start reading up on the condition. More importantly, you might want to ask yourself exactly what makes a person definitively a male or a female and then see if every case of sex (not just limited to the transgendered condition) actually fit your model.

Cheers.
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Well said. I ve always wondered how people decide what gender the person they are talking to is, if it is not so obvious. It is perfectly natural that some women look more masculine than others, for instance. In a case like this, how do the other catholics on the thread decide she is female? By looking at her breasts or shape? Not a very Catholic thing to do is it. In fact gender is a personal thing and it is disgusting to regulate this part of a human being.
 
JaneGrey said:
Well said. I ve always wondered how people decide what gender the person they are talking to is, if it is not so obvious. It is perfectly natural that some women look more masculine than others, for instance. In a case like this, how do the other catholics on the thread decide she is female? By looking at her breasts or shape? Not a very Catholic thing to do is it. In fact gender is a personal thing and it is disgusting to regulate this part of a human being.
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Agree, if they weren’t famous I would question, so it’s natural for some women to look masculine.

img2.timeinc.net/people/i/2009/stylewatch/blog/090413/tori_spelling_300x400.jpg

celebrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/janice_dickinson.jpg
 
You interact with them the same way you would with anyone else. I would refer to them wiith the pronoun for their “new” gender. It doesn’t matter if you agree with them having a sex-change operation or not. Respect people
 
LittleBits said:
You interact with them the same way you would with anyone else. I would refer to them wiith the pronoun for their “new” gender. It doesn’t matter if you agree with them having a sex-change operation or not. Respect people
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:clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
LittleBits said:
You interact with them the same way you would with anyone else. I would refer to them with the pronoun for their “new” gender. It doesn’t matter if you agree with them having a sex-change operation or not. Respect people
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I try to interact with people truthfully and honestly. The use of the word “new” in quotes above indicates to me that I would be using a pronoun that does not reflect the truth. It doesn’t seem charitable to me to support someone in a lie, even if they desire it.
 
milimac said:
I try to interact with people truthfully and honestly. The use of the word “new” in quotes above indicates to me that I would be using a pronoun that does not reflect the truth. It doesn’t seem charitable to me to support someone in a lie, even if they desire it.
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In the case of a transitioning or transitioned transgender person, their “new” gender isn’t an accurate observation. Gender is different from sex. In their case they more than likely have always been the gender they now physically reflect. It’s not changing sex, but more bringing he physical aspects in congruence with the mental reality.
 
meetmehere said:
i dont want any of those queers around me or my family
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Well then you you and your family will have to hide in a cave. Does transsexual fall under your umbrella definition of queer? One my transtition to feame gets in geer and full time, I’m not hiding from the world like some would like me too.
 
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