What is the role of Government in CST?

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Thanks. I was just thinking other resources could also be used as collateral to the value of our currency.

I was under the impression that the weakness of the dollar is also due to massive borrowing from other nations to fund the WOT, WOD, promised entitlements to Americans, and an expansive overseas military.
Not really. We could fund our debt domestically.

However, since we have such a trade imbalance, foreigners end up with lots of extra dollars. They could buy more U.S. goods, but they prefer protectionism and theft of intellectual property.

Instead they have been primarily buying U.S. treasury bonds.

Now, with our interest rates falling, they are less likely to invest in the U.S., so they sell their dollar assets, which lowers the value of the dollar.

God Bless
 
Thanks. I was just thinking other resources could also be used as collateral to the value of our currency
They could, and have been in the past. Pepper believe it or not was used in this fashion. (well, not in relation to the US dollar, but as a reserve ‘currency’)
The current weakness of the US dollar is caused by our trade policy. We continue to import massive amounts of consumer goods from Asia (esp. China) while those countries don’t buy our goods. They either have tariffs, or flat out refuse to pay, by pirating software, movies, pharmaceuticals, etc.
I am stunned you believe this. When I hear talk of ‘trade deficits’, it usually means there is a protectionist around. (note - I do not support NAFTA with all it’s ‘side agreements’)

(I wonder if we will get to hear the wonders of a negative income tax next…😉 )
Not really. We could fund our debt domestically.

  1. devalue the dollar to increase the price of imports, and make our exports cheaper.
And continue to hurt everyone. This is exactly my issue with any worthless fiat currency.

You wouldnt happen to be a fan of Paul Krugman would you?
 
The gilded age was gilded only for a very few. And government was involved, indeed, the deck was stacked in favor of big business and against the little man. We had no worker safety laws, no child laborl laws, no decent housing laws, and as a result the workers were exploited, literally, to death. There was no unemployment insurance, no healtcare…you get the idea. Sure, some made fortunes then but it was generally on the backs of the others who were exploited. Food was often unsafe (ever read “The Jungle”), air and water were filthy. The reason we have the government restrictions we have now is because all these folks thought of was $$$. Since they were so short sighted and greedy, government steeped in to regulate certain areas. Now kids can’t be forced to work until a machine rips their arm off, for example. You can be forced to work with asbestos. We have housing standards and product safety standards. Had the businesses taken care of these things on their own, government would not have needed to respond. But they did not. That is why government has the role it does. I suggest you read a little more about the plight of the urban worker during the gilded age and try to imagine how you would have liked it. 😉
👍 I have nothing to add but this is an excellent post.

Would most of us even have a half-hour lunchbreak if it were up to our employers?
 
They could, and have been in the past. Pepper believe it or not was used in this fashion. (well, not in relation to the US dollar, but as a reserve ‘currency’)

I am stunned you believe this. When I hear talk of ‘trade deficits’, it usually means there is a protectionist around. (note - I do not support NAFTA with all it’s ‘side agreements’)

(I wonder if we will get to hear the wonders of a negative income tax next…😉 )



And continue to hurt everyone. This is exactly my issue with any worthless fiat currency.

You wouldnt happen to be a fan of Paul Krugman would you?
No, I’m about as conservative as you can get.

However, a country can not consume more than it produces for very long.

I would prefer a rational trade policy to move manufacturing jobs back onshore, and discourage off-shoring of IT and other jobs. I don’t think it’s fair to ask American workers and companies (who are burdened with strict environmental and other standards) to compete with 2 billion asian workers who make $1 an hour and abuse labor and pollute with impunity.

Barring that, the only answers are a 7-10% decrease in U.S. consumption or a weak dollar (to discourage imports and encourage exports). The weak dollar is a much less painful choice.

God Bless
 
I would certainly agree here. After all, we all have the option of voting with our feet. There are plenty of countries that have low tax rates that we can move to, so the fact that we are staying when we don’t have to reflects the fact that we are giving our consent to the taxation.
If we were born in this country, and did not move here after reaching the age of consent, is it really true that we have given our consent to be taxed?

Most people respond to this by telling me that if I don’t want to pay taxes, then I should emigrate to another country, but if the founding fathers had done that then I guess I’d be complaining about the bureaucrats on Downing Street right now instead of the ones in Washington.
 
If we were born in this country, and did not move here after reaching the age of consent, is it really true that we have given our consent to be taxed?

Most people respond to this by telling me that if I don’t want to pay taxes, then I should emigrate to another country, but if the founding fathers had done that then I guess I’d be complaining about the bureaucrats on Downing Street right now instead of the ones in Washington.
By not leaving, you have given your consent. My idea seems extreme, but it is really not. People do it all the time, in the past 7 years I have hired people from a variety of different countries: India, Jordan, China, Ghana, Serbia. If they can vote with their feet, why cannot the rest of us do so?
 
The gilded age was gilded only for a very few. And government was involved, indeed, the deck was stacked in favor of big business and against the little man. We had no worker safety laws, no child laborl laws, no decent housing laws, and as a result the workers were exploited, literally, to death. There was no unemployment insurance, no healtcare…you get the idea. Sure, some made fortunes then but it was generally on the backs of the others who were exploited. Food was often unsafe (ever read “The Jungle”), air and water were filthy. The reason we have the government restrictions we have now is because all these folks thought of was $$$. Since they were so short sighted and greedy, government steeped in to regulate certain areas. Now kids can’t be forced to work until a machine rips their arm off, for example. You can be forced to work with asbestos. We have housing standards and product safety standards. Had the businesses taken care of these things on their own, government would not have needed to respond. But they did not. That is why government has the role it does. I suggest you read a little more about the plight of the urban worker during the gilded age and try to imagine how you would have liked it. 😉
I find your description of the living and working conditions during the industrial revolution fails to mention the quality of life prior to this period, or even immediately after the local authorities had implemented their safety regulations. Prior to the industrial revolution, many children had no choice but to engage in subsistence labor for their parents or as hired hands if they had no parents, and were frequently working long hours in squalid and unsafe conditions.

Even after the government stepped in, the changes that were called for, if and when they were implemented, did not genuinely improve working or living conditions simply because the technology of that era was simply unsafe. It is also well documented that most of these regulations were ignored or bribed away at the local level, much the same way that undocumented workers find employment today. What’s more, in many cases, the government regulations that regulated child employment actually increased the problems of poverty and other social ills. It either made those children dependant upon the state for their welfare, which usually meant orphanage, and placed additional financial burdens upon their already overburdened parents who were unable to support themselves or their children to begin with.

Rather than sing the praises of government intervention during the industrial revolution, the free market and the subsequent evolution of better technology and working practices are what actually solved the problem.

First, the fact is that the horrid living and working conditions of the industrial revolution were not unique in history to that era, but instead were the result of condensing the same conditions that had been considered acceptable throughout all of history into an extremely dense, urban environment. In this way, the industrial revolution actually revealed how bad things had really been all along for the workers, and in doing so created opportunities within the free market to improve productivity and business by correcting these errors. Previously, the results of squalid and unsafe conditions in less dense areas did not compel employers to find safer practices because the worker:employer ratios in rural environments did not justify the same kind of scrutiny as the industrial setting, where one employer would have several times the number of employees under them as a pre-industrial employer

Second, the progressive improvement of working and living conditions that have occurred since the dawn of the industrial age have very little to do with government regulation, as much as the bureaucrats would like to take credit. Instead, incremental improvements in technology and business savvy have gradually made it economically feasible and advantageous to engage in practices that increase worker safety and satisfaction. That is, when no alternative to an inherently unsafe factory machine were available, then the loss of skilled laborers due to death and injury, and the subsequent need to hire and retrain workers was regarded as an unavoidable cost of doing business. As technology improved, one of the improvements was that business owners were able to modify their tools to make them more safe, and thus more cost effective in the long term.

Using the same example, while modern employers are required to offer periodic breaks, they are not required to provide televisions in the break rooms. Yet, every minimum wage job I’ve ever had always had a TV in the break room- because every minimum wage employer that hired me understood that the TV meant their employees might come back from their break feeling like they’ve actually had a break, which meant they would be able to maintain a higher level of productivity. The government didn’t mandate TV’s in the break room-employers just did it because it was good for the employees, which they came to believe was good for business.
 
By not leaving, you have given your consent. My idea seems extreme, but it is really not. People do it all the time, in the past 7 years I have hired people from a variety of different countries: India, Jordan, China, Ghana, Serbia. If they can vote with their feet, why cannot the rest of us do so?
Consent is by default?

Where else can I apply that kind of logic?

If someone points a gun at me, and I don’t move, have I given default consent for them to shoot me?

Or if someone threatens to rob my house, and I don’t move my house or my possessions, have I given default consent for them to rob me?

If the government threatens to take a portion of my wages, and I don’t move out of the country, have I given them consent to take my money?

As I said before, the founding fathers did not move out of the country when the government they were born under started behaving badly, they stayed, and that government had to leave.

I’m staying, the government can go.
 
Everybody remember government of the people, for the people, by the people. It is a majority rules situation. The role of government in helping people depends on what the majority agree they are permitted to do.
 
I would like to know why every one seems in agreement that is not OK for thieves to steal, but OK for the government to?
Actually it is the Fed (or any central bank, for that matter), by printing fiat money, that makes it possible for the government to spend, and in effect, rob everyone of their ability to spend what’s theirs. They inflate the money supply and devalue its currency. However, there is an alternative and that is to directly tax everyone, but this has now become politically unacceptable if not damaging. Borrowing and inflating the money supply has now become universally accepted. Most see reasons other than the Fed for the exponentially rising prices in commodities and oil.
 
The Federal Reserve is a cartel of private bankers, many of them international. There is nothing “federal” (meaning governmental) about it. It is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on the American people. Congress unconstitutionally gave up its right to coin money. The Fed prints the money (a fiat currency without anything but thin air to back it up), then loans us our own “money” on which we must pay interest. The debt can never be repaid. They then instituted the Federal Income Tax to have funds to collect the interest.
This is entirely correct. And I think we can thank a beloved Congressman from Texas to bring it to more and more attention.
 
Actually it is the Fed (or any central bank, for that matter), by printing fiat money, that makes it possible for the government to spend, and in effect, rob everyone of their ability to spend what’s theirs. They inflate the money supply and devalue its currency. However, there is an alternative and that is to directly tax everyone, but this has now become politically unacceptable if not damaging. Borrowing and inflating the money supply has now become universally accepted. Most see reasons other than the Fed for the exponentially rising prices in commodities and oil.
Agreed. As a follower of the Austrian school of economics, I am 100% opposed to central banking. (as I have already mentioned)
Everybody remember government of the people, for the people, by the people. It is a majority rules situation.
Don’t you mean tyranny of the majority? This country was certainly not designed that way. There is a difference between a Constitutional Federal Republic and a Democracy - although this country has devolved into the latter.
 
Agreed. As a follower of the Austrian school of economics, I am 100% opposed to central banking. (as I have already mentioned)

Don’t you mean tyranny of the majority? This country was certainly not designed that way. There is a difference between a Constitutional Federal Republic and a Democracy - although this country has devolved into the latter.
What do you mean by “devolved?” Why is “Democracy” a devolution of government? I suppose you want to disenfranchise everyone except white males who own significant property.
 
What do you mean by “devolved?” Why is “Democracy” a devolution of government? I suppose you want to disenfranchise everyone except white males who own significant property.
Excuse me? Where did you pull that one from? You will have to tell me where it is I said that. Even though I am a white male, I scarcely own much in the way of significant property’.

What I meant is this - in a flat out democracy, 51% can just vote away the other 49% rights, property, or life. In a Republic, rights are (supposed to be) guaranteed, and thus inalienable. The more ‘democratic’ the country has become, the more we see signs of tyranny of the majority. A good example would be the surge in popularity of smoking bans - 51% or more voting to take the right of business owners to do with their own property as they see fit (in this case, to allow smoking in their businesses).
 
You are so correct. It is really was an amusing time in some respects. Big Business used two concepts to its advantage and the majority of the public suffered terribly. One, they introduced, via eastern intellectuals the concept of “survival of the fittest” . This idea which has nothing to do with anythng Darwin said, was pasted onto business, and basically said, left alone, the best will survive, meaning business. Then they added the work ethic which impressed upon the poor that anyone could make it if they tried. This gave them the hands off economy they desired and eliminated in them any requirement that they respond to their workers in any way other than use then as fodder. Today, we see that theme resurrected in the elite fundamentalism of the neo-cons who want a free market economy for exactly the same reasons, because it favors big business and assesses no responsibiity on them to society at large. So we have CEO making hundreds of millions of dollars while their companies and their workers lose everything. The rich continue to consolidate all wealth in their hands internationally and that group is shrinking, the middle class is disappearing and the poor working class is growing hugely.
The work ethic did not begin with the industrial revolution.
There have been two competing attitudes toward work throughout western civilization-probably throughout the world, but I can’t cite that. The first was the work was a curse, and that it was the responsibility of the uneducated masses to labor for the benefit of the few and the elite- this idea was predominant in greco-roman society, and also later throughout europe, as seen in the feudal system.

Under this model, the work of the masses was performed for subsistence alone, hand to mouth, so to speak, to enable the elite to engage in academics, architecture, the arts, or just laying around eating grapes. Furthermore, this model asserted that “good life” of the elite could only be appreciated by the elite because the masses weren’t smart or sophisticated enough to know what to do with themselves if they didn’t have to work all the time. Consequently, the idea that a worker could “succeed” if they only worked hard enough was a silly idea under this model, because it was believed that the workers simply could not benefit from their own labor.

The second model, the notion you were so critical of above, incidentally, was and does demonstrate the value of labor as a commodity, which the laborer controls, as opposed to the aforementioned understanding of labor as a curse, which the laborer must accept. Under this second model, labor is considered valuable and the foundation upon which an individual can rise above simple subsistence work and transform their labor into tradable capital through participating in an economic exchange for their labor. Effectively, this model became the basis for the understanding that all human persons are inherently equal, such that every person has an essential equality in the marketplace wherein they own the use of their labor, and can sell their labor to their own benefit.

Contrary to your opinion, the idea that a person can work hard and benefit from their own labor was not some sort of tool of industry to control the little guy- it is a huge part of the development of workers rights and the eventual collapse of the generational inequity of feudal/caste systems. It was an idea that the royal, landowing, and otherwise elite in europe and throughout the world fought long and hard against for years, the certainly didn’t promote it, or see it as a way to control the masses.
 
If by deflation you mean a decline in the price of things you wish to buy, then wouldn’t you think this is a good thing?
For me it would be a great thing. You see, I have a contract with my employer, who has agreed to give me 5.5% raises for the next three years. I also don’t have a mortgage. So deflation for me would be great.

For the person who has a level payment mortgage, and a job whose income fluctuates with prices, it would be a disaster. Think of it, if prices and nominal incomes fell, what do you think would happen to the foreclosure rate?
 
Everybody remember government of the people, for the people, by the people. It is a majority rules situation. The role of government in helping people depends on what the majority agree they are permitted to do.
Well, based on that, then it is “government of 51% of the voting people, for the rest of the people, by 51% of the voting people”

Yeah, I don’t think I like that very much-

what happens when 51% of the people decide that I don’t have rights? or that I’m not worth keeping alive anymore? or that I’m only allowed to have 1 child? or that I have to sell my house to the city because they want to build an interstate in my backyard?

The majority have been pushing the minority around forever- it doesn’t make it right just because its in the constitution. When you’re of the minority position, democracy is no better than dictatorship- in fact, iinstead of having just one dictator, 51% of your fellow citizens are dictators.
 
Well, based on that, then it is “government of 51% of the voting people, for the rest of the people, by 51% of the voting people”

Yeah, I don’t think I like that very much-
“A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.”

“The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive.”
Code:
  “If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become wolves. It seems to be the law of our general nature, in spite of individual exceptions.”
Every generation needs a new revolution.

Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories.

Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
 
This is entirely correct. And I think we can thank a beloved Congressman from Texas to bring it to more and more attention.
Regarding the unconstitutional Fed Reserve, the majority of people are clueless. The Constitution Party has stated in their platform they wish to repeal it. This is so huge and the ills of most of this country, yet the crooks continue to do business as usual because of lack of knowledge by the voters. Did you know there is a group of constitutional lawyers (and others) trying to legally bring it down under our First Amendment right of Petition of Redress of Grievances? Because our judiciary is now severely compromised along with our civil liberties, at the moment the government is just ignoring it. On June 30th, a DVD will be handed out to every member of Congress by volunteers of this group demanding the redress. Every one needs to spread the word! Check it out at:
[givemeliberty.org/revolution](http://www.givemeliberty.org/revolution)
 
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