What is the vocation of same-sex-attracted Catholics?

  • Thread starter Thread starter catholiclala
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
SerraSemper said:
Definitely not. This is a spousal vocation, not hyped up singlehood for women, and a candidate should have a measure of spousal affectivity to Christ…
Click to expand...
I beg your pardon? Are you seriously suggesting that one of the conditions for consecrated virginity is that a woman think of Christ in a sexual way?

If not, then I see no reason to distinguish a difference between a consecrated virgin who’s typically tempted by sexual attraction to men, and a consecrated virgin who’s typically tempted by sexual attraction to women.

To try to deny SSA people the right to consecrate their virginity to Christ would officially cross a serious line into pathological mistreatment of people who experience SSA.

I hope I’m misunderstanding your post. Could you please clarify, so that I (and any persons who experience SSA) may better understand what you are trying to say?

To clarify my own perspective on this, it seems critically misaligned from Christ’s love for us, and internally inconsistent, to put people who experience SSA in a trap where not only must they remain virgins for the sake of Christ – but they may not consecrate their perseverance in virginity to him. That seems like an absurd internal contradiction, and whatever interpretation of consecrated virginity leads one to that conclusion, is a version I reckon I’ll reject upfront as having missed the mark in a major way. Christ calls us ALL to relationship with him, regardless of our sexual attractions. If someone chooses celibacy with Christ, who would you even think you are (and what would it even pragmatically mean) to try to tell them they ‘can’t’?
 
Last edited:
The best thing they can do for themselves is follow the liturgical daily routine. I also recommend the Spiritual Directory of St. Francis de Sales. There is far too much emphasis on sexuality today, and the world needs to stop idolizing it. I also suggest that they wear the Green Scapular with St. Benedict and Miraculous Medals attached to it.

They should make the Sign of the Cross in the morning when they wake up, as per the Catechism. Then make their Morning Offering. The Liturgy of the Hours and Mass, if possible. Enroll in the Confraternity of Angelic Warfare, and wear either the medal or the cord. Take part in volunteering, if possible. Rosary and Divine Mercy chaplets are highly recommended, as are the Sacraments of Reconciliation and of the Sick.

When the Holy Ghost leads them to do so, make the Monfortian Consecration to Our Lady. Then they need to encapsulate their sexual worries and give them to her.

When retiring for the night, pray the Prayer for Daily Neglects.

If they can keep things under control for three years by doing this, they will have a greater chance of discerning where God wants them.

If I can ever get the time to write, I have a totally Catholic novel in the works which centers around the short life of a Pastoral Provision priest’s wife. Local residents go to her for spiritual advice, and a celibate gay man is among them.

Blessings,
Cloisters
My new congregation:
http://cloisters.tripod.com/charity/
My particular ministry promoting the cloisters and contemplative life:
http://cloisters.tripod.com/
 
If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying:
  1. People with SSA must remain virgins because other vocations aren’t open to them.
  2. Why shouldn’t people with SSA “dedicate their virginity to Christ” for the sake of the Kingdom?
And this is what I am saying:
  1. People with SSA cannot receive the solemn consecration of virgins from their bishop. This is reserved to female virgins who have the proper affectivity of espousal with Christ the Divine Bridegroom and they are called to exercise the maternal ministry of the Church.
  2. Anyone with or without SSA can dedicate their virginity to Christ for the sake of the Kingdom if they are virgins; continence if they are not virgins.
 
SerraSemper said:
If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying:
  1. People with SSA must remain virgins because other vocations aren’t open to them.
Click to expand...
No, I am not saying this. I am aware that some SSA people self-report finding happiness in marriage to someone of the opposite sex, and I consider it not-my-business to tell someone they cannot explore this option.
SerraSemper said:
And this is what I am saying:
  1. People with SSA cannot receive the solemn consecration of virgins from their bishop. This is reserved to female virgins who have the proper affectivity of espousal with Christ the Divine Bridegroom and they are called to exercise the maternal ministry of the Church.
Click to expand...
I see.

Well, I don’t know enough about the solemn consecration of virgins from a bishop, I suppose. If what you’re saying is true, and women with SSA are categorically excluded on the claim that they lack the “proper affectivity” to be a bride of Christ or to mother others… well, if that exclusion is a true fact, it is my opinion that the official phenomenon of virgin consecration has gone off the rails and is in need of reformation, and I imagine there will be more glory in heaven for those excluded from its ranks on earth, than for those who got the shiny reward sash of inclusion and recognition in this life. Jesus knows what it is to be neglected and excluded; he’s probably closer to those forced to endure alone and unrecognized, than those who create mutual-recognition clubs to exclude others from.

Jesus Christ is God, and he chose to incarnate as a celibate, unmarried man; ain’t nobody having sex with him. We all participate in the one-flesh union (the spousal analog) when we receive his body in Communion and he joins our body to his through that one-flesh-uniting act. We are also all participant in his actual bride, the Church. And one-on-one, he walks with all of us when we feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned. There isn’t one person that Christ himself excludes from his bride, if she’s willing to choose him.

If there are women who choose to believe that they’re special ‘brides’ of Christ in a way that not even nuns are (if the nun had sex before consecration) and that SSA people can never be… well, may God be with them. I feel sorry for them, but may God be with them.

And may God especially bless the SSA people navigating this world of stuffy exclusion and barriers right now, and help them show us what true holiness and walking with Christ looks like.

Edit: I’ll just add that I said “If what you’re saying is true”, very intentionally. I don’t doubt your sincerity in saying what you believe is true, but I do doubt that it is objectively true that the order of consecrated virgins categorically excludes persons with SSA from joining it. There might be individuals within the order who want to exclude certain persons… but I’m doubtful that it is a categorical rule that such persons actually must be excluded. A brief internet scan seems to show that there are indeed SSA consecrated virgins.
 
Last edited:
Dlee said:
Are marriage or religious the only vocations? I’ve heard some say that singleness is also a vocation.
Click to expand...
It isn’t “singleness” that is the vocation but celibacy. Singleness is often just a temporary time until someone gets married. Singleness is temporary, celibacy is for a lifetime.
 
It would behoove you perhaps to actually do some research on the order of virgins. It is the most ancient vocation of consecrated life for women, beginning with Our Lady. Saints who have belonged to it include Agnes, Lucy, Agatha, Cecilia, Scholastica, Hildegard, etc. Just as men represent Christ more fully in the priesthood, so too women represent the Church more fully in virginal bridehood. Sacred virgins renounce human marriage “for the sake of which it is the sign”, namely, to be solemnly espoused to Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Not all are called to this vocation. That’s fine. The great thing about the Church is there is a variety of ways of living out the universal call to holiness. This particular calling is about marriage with Christ. It’s not for everyone.
 
SerraSemper said:
People with SSA cannot receive the solemn consecration of virgins from their bishop. This is reserved to female virgins who have the proper affectivity of espousal…
Click to expand...
Do you have a source to confirm the assertion that consecration of virgins is limited according to the sexual inclinations of the women concerned? That is, one must experience opposite sex attraction only to receive it.

This isn’t something I’ve heard before.
 
Sid said:
Many same-sex attracted people end up marrying an opposite sex partner for the sake of their career. My guess is it’s probably more common than people think. Obama is an example.
Click to expand...
Hahahah what in the name of high school football is this
 
SerraSemper said:
It would behoove you perhaps to actually do some research on the order of virgins.
Click to expand...
It would behoove you to quote a contemporary authoritative source that categorically excludes SSA people from the order of virgins.

I’ve tried searching for such a declaration, but have not found it.

Until such an authoritative declaration turns up, the exclusionary attitude of a lay stranger on the Internet strikes me as a fallen human mistake.
 
Last edited:
MNathaniel said:
It would behoove you to quote a contemporary authoritative source that categorically excludes SSA people from the order of virgins.
Click to expand...
At the risk of sounding like some weirdo on Tumblr obsessing over gender identity and creating 40 character acronyms on sexuality, it’s also important to bear in mind that SSA can exist to a greater or lesser degree in individuals. Human sexuality can be pretty complicated. It’s not just two categories of “gay” and “straight.”
 
Sid said:
I’m sure you’re aware-
Click to expand...
Your own source is described as “controversial”, meaning it’s disputed. Even if we take it at face value, it doesn’t establish that Obama is gay, only that he reportedly, according to some third party, at one contemplated homosexuality. This is miles away from actually being gay.

Are you trolling? Cause this feels trolly.
 
And two of my dearest friends are lesbians. I can assure you I am not. Seriously, please stop with this garbage. [And, to be clear, I am saying that your posts are garbage, not that people being gay or lesbian is garbage.]
 
As far as I’m aware, the only vocation that would be off-limits would be the priesthood. And even then, if the desires were well under control and had never been acted upon, it might not be entirely impossible. Religious life, marriage (and yes, same sex persons can and do marry members of the opposite sex), single life, consecrated virginity (I assume), third-order religious, would all be open to such a person. 🙂
 
sealabeag said:
As far as I’m aware, the only vocation that would be off-limits would be the priesthood.
Click to expand...
The rationale that goes for men in the priesthood needing affective maturity and ability to have a sense of spiritual fatherhood is the same for women in sacred virginity needing affective maturity and ability to have a sense of spiritual motherhood. Bishops and members of the order of virgins are complementary facets of the Church. One represents Christ and the other the Church.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I understand, and I know it is generally the principle that for that reason and others men with deeply rooted homosexual tendencies shouldn’t be accepted to the priesthood, but I’m not sure there is a clear-cut church teaching that it is always impossible. I don’t think there is. And I’m not sure about consecrated virginity, @Cloisters might know - would a same-sex attracted woman be necessarily excluded from that vocation? I’m assuming she wouldn’t simply because if the Church has not spoken, I assume it remains open, whilst at the same time maybe the two things wouldn’t be compatible.
 
Let me introduce myself as there is no need for cloisters to jump in… I am a sacred virgin, I am a canon lawyer, I have a diploma from the Vatican on the Theology and Law of Consecrated Life (it confers the status of perita), I am doing a dissertation on the Ordo Virginum… etc. I would hope that I know a bit about my own vocation.
 
Ok, so would it be impossible for a same-sex attracted woman to become a consecrated virgin? My assumption is that it is possible, simply due to the fact that I’m not aware that the Church has spoken on the issue. And also if the only factor that would rule the possibility out is a sense of spiritual motherhood, surely some same-sex attracted women desire motherhood, just as some same-sex attracted men desire fatherhood? Desire for fatherhood is not the only, or as far as I’m aware, even the primary reason that homosexual men are excluded, generally, from the priesthood.
 
Again, the vocation to sacred virginity is about 1) being a Bride of Christ. That is her very identity and privilege and 2) being a spiritual mother to souls. The whole theology is about being wedded to Christ. Thus, what is needed in a healthy heterosexual marriage insofar as the spousal affectivity is likewise required in the virgin’s marriage with Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Religious can get away with a discipleship continence “for the sake of the Kingdom” because their vocation is not essentially spousal. But sacred virgins whole identity and vocation is spousal.
 
Yes, but there’s nothing that explicitly rules a same-sex attracted person out of consecrated virginity, is there? As in, there is no Church teaching that says so? In which case, whilst they might not, in your opinion be theologically compatible (same-sex attraction and consecrated virginity) a woman could still choose that vocation? And, in the same way that a same-sex attracted person can choose marriage, couldn’t they also choose to become a Bride of Christ? Since it is a spiritual espousal, and not a physical or sexual one?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top